Run for your lives....The propaganda war

[BradSTL]

Oil has climbed over $100 a barrel. Gas is nearing $4 a gallon. Gold is at $1,000 an ounce — a telltale sign the public is losing trust in paper money, stocks and bonds.

The above cited prices are a reflection of supply and demand... NOT... a commentary on the finances of any particular government.

The United States of America is still the largest growing economy on the planet, and is among the economies with the lowest consumer inflation rate.  USA=more than 20 percent of world GDP.

[BradSTL]

Serebro's post from page 6 TAKES THE CAKE!

krimster, where do you take all those old propaganda books?!
yes that took place but not 15 years ago but in the 20-ies-40-ies, that happened because there was famine(not only ukrainians suffered but all people of the USSR did) so the government didn't allow the farmers leave farms as they had to work

OH PLZZZZZZZZZZ! (PLEASE!)

Why in 2002 did the Moscow police launch a crackdown checking on the propiskas of young workers in Moscow?  Why all the obsession with determining if workers in Moscow have proper documents?

Why do nelegalovs still run a website complaining of their treatment, and the status of their documents,  by the authorities in Moscow's city government... even the federal government?

This is not STALIN's Russia of the 20's-30's-and the 40's.  Its not ** 100 ** years ago.  Try *** 6 years *** ago?

Come on Serebro!!!!!   Confront the contradictions in your own country.

 

[BradSTL]

as soon as America is made of people  of different nationalities who migrated there according to many various reasons we can't call any invention american.

No Serebro THEY ARE AMERICAN!   Another petty insult you try to introduce into your own arguments because you do not have FACTS.

Patents and trademarkets are regulated by Title 35 of the United States Code (American federal law), you can read at the Cornell University website (its easiest to navigate here), all FIVE PARTS of it:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/35/

The methods that are used to administer the law are at the U-S Patent and Trademark Office:

http://www.uspto.gov/

Which is protected by either international treaty protocols, or certain international treaties:

http://usasearch.gov/search?affiliate=uspto.gov&v%3Aproject=firstgov&query=international+treaties+protecting+intellectual+property

Be assured the patents are AMERICAN... ethnicity-race is NOT a factor involved.

You try to extrapolate too much about America from its popular culture.  This is a common mistake made by many, whether or not you live- or travel - to a country is really irrelevant if your beliefs are formed without a context, or perspective.  Yours is quite narrow (surprising since you were here).  I can't understand why you had to search so exhaustively for news about Hurricane Katrina striking Louisiana/Mississippi when it was plastered on SO MANY WEBSITES during that time.  In fact, information overload is continuing problem for many westerners when they seek information about something.  Oh well!  Perhaps it is simpler for you to stick to 1 or 2 websites for news, than comb several websites patiently for many perspectives, facts and opinions.  To each their own!

[Serebro]

OH PLZZZZZZZZZZ! (PLEASE!)

Why in 2002 did the Moscow police launch a crackdown checking on the propiskas of young workers in Moscow?  Why all the obsession with determining if workers in Moscow have proper documents?

This is not STALIN's Russia of the 20's-30's-and the 40's.  Its not ** 100 ** years ago.  Try *** 6 years *** ago?

Come on Serebro!!!!!   Confront the contradictions in your own country.

another stupid ignorant remark
Let me guess....
 
because Moscow is full of illegal immigrants and workers from Ukraine/Tadzikistan/Uzbekistan who work there illegally?!

I can see no connection between checking documents of "young dark skinned workers" and forbidding citizens to move from one village/town to another.

[Serebro]

Brad is one of those "bloody patriots" I mentioned above


Brad , you may not try to raise your stupid facts and ignorant remarks as I am going to ignore you for not contributing anything new to the discussion.
so feel free to put a flag near the house and look for other FSU girls, there's no need to put all this crap here..

[55North]

I can see no connection between checking documents of "young dark skinned workers" and forbidding citizens to move from one village/town to another.

By the assiduous checking of "young dark skinned workers", presumably to the exclusion of white 'ethnic Russian' looking people, one is immediately exposing the latent racism discussed.  Why not equally stop 'white' folks to look for illegals from Ukraine, Moldova and Kazakhstan?  And Russia wonders why citizens from the North Caucasus are a bit upset with the way they're treated.
 
Can't wait to be back in Pyatigorsk in 3 weeks where the authorities necessarily have to behave more reasonably.

[Serebro]

By the assiduous checking of "young dark skinned workers", presumably to the exclusion of white 'ethnic Russian' looking people, one is immediately exposing the latent racism discussed.  Why not equally stop 'white' folks to look for illegals from Ukraine, Moldova and Kazakhstan?  And Russia wonders why citizens from the North Caucasus are a bit upset with the way they're treated.
 
Can't wait to be back in Pyatigorsk in 3 weeks where the authorities necessarily have to behave more reasonably.

they are upset?!
first:who cares about the way they are treated if they don't treat Russians well beating them in the streets at night and raping children or bringing diseases like cholera?

second: the remark "dark-skinned" was used as a link to their location but not to their race as they checked me and my russian friend, too and I saw nothing bad about that

third: I guess in the USA they don't catch illegal immigrants from Mexica or Kuba and just let them all come to the USa and just treat them all well 

of I have heard that they check documents and put poor dark skinned mexicans to jails for their crimes and send them away from the country, does this mean that americans are racists?!

[55North]

I'm British.  There might be a difference. 

In the UK, the police do not have the right to stop you unless there is reasonable (circumstantial) evidence of a crime being committed.  Furthermore, in the UK, you are NOT obliged to carry identification.  Illegal immigration does not qualify as a crime in this respect.  Such matters are dealt with by other authorities.
 
As a nation, we go to significant steps not to upset our significant number of ethnic minorities, and we work, through law and practice to counteract devisive tribalism and racism.  We find it helps in building a relatively harmonious society.

Russia should try it one day.  You might like it.

[Serebro]

I'm British.  There might be a difference. 

In the UK, the police do not have the right to stop you unless there is reasonable (circumstantial) evidence of a crime being committed.  Furthermore, in the UK, you are NOT obliged to carry identification.  Illegal immigration does not qualify as a crime in this respect.  Such matters are dealt with by other authorities.
 
As a nation, we go to significant steps not to upset our significant number of ethnic minorities, and we work, through law and practice to counteract devisive tribalism and racism.  We find it helps in building a relatively harmonious society.

Russia should try it one day.  You might like it.

I don't think I will like it, for me it's better when I am checked, it's not that hard(this is the reason why I always have a passport with me)and identified rather than I will see thousands of criminals walking around.

your quote

In the UK, the police do not have the right to stop you unless there is reasonable (circumstantial) evidence of a crime being committed

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brazilian_shot_by_police_on_London_Underground_was_not_acting_suspiciously

it says:

Brazilian shot by police on London Underground was not acting suspiciouslyJump to: navigation, search
Tuesday, August 16, 2005

 
London UndergroundDocuments, reportedly leaked from the investigation into the death of Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian electrician shot dead by British Police on the London Underground on 22 July reveal that Mr de Menezes was not acting suspiciously and was already restrained when shot.
Furthermore, the documents reveal that the original report given by the police and recorded on the coroners report contained many false statements. The reports suggest the police shot Jean Charles de Menezes because they mistakenly identified him as Hussain Osman, and had agreed to shoot him if he ran. Hussain Osman was suspected of having placed a faulty or mock explosive in a train.

The original reports claimed that de Menezes was acting suspiciously, was wearing a padded jacket, and ran when challenged, even vaulting the ticket barriers. However, the leaked documents, which include statements from officers involved in the operation and photographs of the scene, show that he behaved like any other commuter, used his travel pass to enter the station, even picking up a newspaper on his way. He was not challenged by police, and appears to have been unaware of being followed until after he entered the train. Photographic stills show he was only wearing a light denim jacket. It appears that he only ran in order to reach a train that was about to leave the platform.

lovely, I prefer to be identified before I am shot.
I don't like the way they do it in England!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[55North]

Russian idiocy at large.   Some reading for the weekend.

Race murders....
http://windowoneurasia.blogspot.com/2008/04/window-on-eurasia-mass-fascist-terror.html

The stupidity of the judiciary......
http://windowoneurasia.blogspot.com/2008/04/window-on-eurasia-some-russian-courts.html

No matter what the orders are, some of these Cossacks are unreconstructed hooligans.  This will not be going down well in the Southern Federation.
http://windowoneurasia.blogspot.com/2008/03/window-on-eurasia-moscow-wants-expanded.html

So Serebro. What are you going to do?  Lock them all up?  Whose going to do the dirty work running and building Moscow?  
http://windowoneurasia.blogspot.com/2008/04/window-on-eurasia-illegal-immigrants.html

[Serebro]

North, what are you trying to prove me with your links?! That my country isn't perfect?!I know it's not perfect and I have never told you that my country is perfect, it is not perfect and it has a lot of serious problems, I have never tried to say that it's the best country in the world as many other members of the discussion did with their countries trying to attract my attention to the way they do this or that in their country but as for such reason as identifying people walking in the streets I can see nothing bad about it.

The only reason I can't understand is why there are so many people here who go to the country, find gf's and wives and then they start a constand stream of telling bad things about their wives' and gfs' countries, you don't have to live there, nobidy has invited you here, if you don't like it there's no need to shout about it, just go home, lock and watch TV ejoying how great the country where you live is.


Because the way most of you do it here is mean.

As for me I got tired of idiotic obvious remarks concerning my country all the time. when will it end?!when you stop visiting it and start looking for wives at home?!

[Lily]

In the UK, the police do not have the right to stop you unless there is reasonable (circumstantial) evidence of a crime being committed.  Furthermore, in the UK, you are NOT obliged to carry identification.  

Same is prescribed in Russian Law 'On Police'. Also, no Russian law obliges any Russian to carry an ID at all times.
Russian police used to stop people who in any way makes an impression of illegal residents, be it quickly walking to a metro station in a poor neighborhood early weekend, or just people who don't look like they are well informed and can protect themselves legally.

Policepeople try to make some accusation based on what they make the person to tell them, and they are quite skilled on making the person to testify against himself. They just use everything he or she says agains him or her, and compile records that could lead to a fine. They don't have an obligation to warn that everything he tell may be used against him.

[55North]

I can understand your anger Serebro, it is the nature of such conversations, particularly online, and with no chair, that our hackles can rise, mine included.
 
Most of your antagonists have not only been invited to Russia, but actually like it.  I certainly do.  That's why we can also be exasperated to see similar errors being made there, as, say, the US and UK made in a number of areas in the past (and occasionally repeat).  We aren't special, or especially different.  It's just that certain lessons have been learnt and it's depressing (though I guess inevitable given the past) that Russia may waste decades learning the hard way.   

Instead of training and encouraging the employment and integration of your near (Russian-speaking) neighbours as free, acceptable individuals, openly active in your economy, you will suddenly find that Siberia is effectively Chinese, and that those that can have gone west.

[Jazzyclassy]

North, what are you trying to prove me with your links?! That my country isn't perfect?!I know it's not perfect and I have never told you that my country is perfect, it is not perfect and it has a lot of serious problems, I have never tried to say that it's the best country in the world as many other members of the discussion did with their countries trying to attract my attention to the way they do this or that in their country but as for such reason as identifying people walking in the streets I can see nothing bad about it.

The only reason I can't understand is why there are so many people here who go to the country, find gf's and wives and then they start a constand stream of telling bad things about their wives' and gfs' countries, you don't have to live there, nobidy has invited you here, if you don't like it there's no need to shout about it, just go home, lock and watch TV ejoying how great the country where you live is.


Because the way most of you do it here is mean.

As for me I got tired of idiotic obvious remarks concerning my country all the time. when will it end?!when you stop visiting it and start looking for wives at home?!

I completely agree with this, and it astonishes me so much how those people here can bash Russia in so many ways, they spit into the baket from where they drink, it is just very mean , double faced and low class.

and after observing how western members of the forum react and what they say here, one can doubt how they ever attracted any russian women at all !

[BillyB]

The only reason I can't understand is why there are so many people here who go to the country, find gf's and wives and then they start a constand stream of telling bad things about their wives' and gfs' countries, you don't have to live there, nobidy has invited you here, if you don't like it there's no need to shout about it, just go home, lock and watch TV ejoying how great the country where you live is.


Because the way most of you do it here is mean.

As for me I got tired of idiotic obvious remarks concerning my country all the time. when will it end?!when you stop visiting it and start looking for wives at home?!

Certainly through this debate Serebro, nobody is winning you over. If their goal is to influence your opinions, they are failing. Hopefully they don't take this approach with their wives or girlfriends. I know men who come down hard on their ladies when they think she is dumb or ignorant and they believe they have a good marriage but behind the men's backs, the women say they aren't happy with the marriage.

When with my fiancee, I never speak bad about Uzbekistan and I know she has National pride of her country and she even voluntarily joined the militia but like you Serebro, she understands what is wrong and when we see something in public that doesn't seem right, she shrugs her shoulders, looks at me and says "Uzbekistan" as if it can only happen here.

This forum could be a valuable tool used by men to sharpen their skills on how to communicate with ladies and win them over.

[Gator]

Serebro,

Your point is well taken.  As we wrote in the guidelines for men's behavior, it is disrespectful.  We elaborated:

Simple things like making a joke about a lady's city or country might be enough for a lady to reject you without you even knowing it.  Understanding her culture and her country's history will almost certainly endear you to the lady as well.

Now that you have correctly said this, please keep in mind that this thread started about the same as your thread on orphan deaths, based on an anti-American article in Pravda.  That article not only bashed America, it had false information and omitted some relevant facts.  See the difference?

RWD men should not go out of our way to bash Russia, nor should RW do the same with regard to America.  There is better stuff to write about.


Jazzyclassy wrote,

I completely agree with this, and it astonishes me so much how those people here can bash Russia in so many ways, they spit into the baket from where they drink, it is just very mean , double faced and low class.

Maybe they spit in the bucket thinking this will stop other men from drinking out of the bucket, keeping the RW "delights" all for themselves and not having to share. 

[Blues Fairy]

I don't think I will like it, for me it's better when I am checked, it's not that hard(this is the reason why I always have a passport with me)and identified rather than I will see thousands of criminals walking around.

In 2002 I just relocated to Moscow from N-sk and walked the streets carrying my passport at all times.  MANY times I had very scary encounters with cops who alleged that my temp. propiska was a fake and attempted to detain me for 3 hours in their little room as was their custom with young pretty girls.  Once I even had to run from a drunken cop all across Chertanovskaya subway station because my cell phone was not working underground and I wasn't sure I could get help unless I managed to get upstairs.

As soon as you give the cops a free ticket to arrest without cause, you're NEVER safe, regardless of your passport/ skin color/ race/ occupation.

[Makkin]

  I'm one of those patriot types who believe in defending my country.
 

  I'm one of those realists that know history shows us not to ever be like Russia.

Makkin

[KenC]

Certainly through this debate Serebro, nobody is winning you over. If their goal is to influence your opinions, they are failing. Hopefully they don't take this approach with their wives or girlfriends. I know men who come down hard on their ladies when they think she is dumb or ignorant and they believe they have a good marriage but behind the men's backs, the women say they aren't happy with the marriage.

When with my fiancee, I never speak bad about Uzbekistan and I know she has National pride of her country and she even voluntarily joined the militia but like you Serebro, she understands what is wrong and when we see something in public that doesn't seem right, she shrugs her shoulders, looks at me and says "Uzbekistan" as if it can only happen here.

This forum could be a valuable tool used by men to sharpen their skills on how to communicate with ladies and win them over.

Billy,
This is an area you will have to address more so once your fiancee comes to America.  I found that the man really needs to have some thick skin during that adjustment period.  I was very patient with Lena's anti-American views in the beginning.  I knew that over time, she would see the true value of our American ways.  And she has.

Hoefully, your girl will have a more open mind to see the "other side", unlike some posters here that have limited or no American experience at all.  But I am not going to sugar coat it, it is a tough pill to swallow when the woman you love harbors such ill will toward your home country.  I always considered myself kind of critical of things here and not overly patriotic, but Lena pushed even my limits.  Many of the women from the fsu come here with all the same misconceptions that Jazzy/Serebro display here.  It just takes a lot of time and a lot of patience to over come this conflict.  As I have said elsewhere, the man too needs to keep an open mind to the idea that things are not perfect here and that there is a possibility that some things are even better in your lady's home country too.
KenC

[Serebro]

In 2002 I just relocated to Moscow from N-sk and walked the streets carrying my passport at all times.  MANY times I had very scary encounters with cops who alleged that my temp. propiska was a fake and attempted to detain me for 3 hours in their little room as was their custom with young pretty girls.  Once I even had to run from a drunken cop all across Chertanovskaya subway station because my cell phone was not working underground and I wasn't sure I could get help unless I managed to get upstairs.

As soon as you give the cops a free ticket to arrest without cause, you're NEVER safe, regardless of your passport/ skin color/ race/ occupation.

Blues Fairy, you are lucky, that drunk cop has evidently found you too attractive and tried to "make friends" with you:)
As for me I have been checked by them but I have never been lucky enough to be run after:)


As for the skin color... I have a friend, a russian girl, she is blond with blue eyes and her husband is from Armenia, his skin color is dark and his hair is black and eyes are dark, too, he used to work in Moscow and she went to him to spend weekends together, one Monday after she came back  she felt hurt and she told us about her visit to Moscow and that the cops had stopped her husband only 1 time during the weekend but they stopped her, who was a citizen of Russia looking Russian 3 times...we joked a lot about that after that had happened:)

KenC

  I always considered myself kind of critical of things here and not overly patriotic, but Lena pushed even my limits.  Many of the women from the fsu come here with all the same misconceptions that Jazzy/Serebro display here. 

Dear Ken, if you think that I am the example of a Russian patriot you are wrong
you haven't seen russian patriots yet then:)
russian patriot would have never come here and discuss things with you as s/he considers people foreigners here to be unworthy his/her attention.

for some reason on many Russian forums I have to defend the USA as there are too many patriots there, some of them have been to the USA, some have never been but they just don't like the west and they don't like the things that are connected with it, including all people who want to migrate, who admire western things and so on, so some people have no idea of what they are trying to discuss, but I consider myself to be a FAIR person so I try to be realistic and to judge things from my own experience.So very often I am one of the minority.. and I am always in a "contradictory mood".One day I remember I was called an "american whore" on a russian forum just because I tried to defend the system existing in the USA and I told them that I had been to the USa before, it's surprisind that I have this image of a"blind russian patriot"here

In your opinion your women criticizing the USA are a good example of what russian people are, but how many russian women have you met, I mean not women who are interested in finding a husband abroad (as most of these women have positive attitude towards the west and negative attitude towards russia and of course it affects their point of view) but just women...who marry RM, raise children and quite happy with their lives, they just don't want to migrate anywhere and just laugh when you offer them to find a husband abroad.How many women like that have you met?!How many talks have you had with them?!

all you say is that.. you tried to be polite but even Lena (who wanted to find the way out )told bad things about Russia....and "it means that Russia is bad".

Go and  meet my collegues and friends who have been abroad, who are happily married and listen to their point of view... they are the majority.

I remember long time ago when your Lena went to Moscow and wrote her trip report I didn't know you well as at that moment I had just come to RWD but I remember that her report was just so pessimistic that I even asked you if she is a pessimist because it was so dirty, even WM don't write such dirty things about the FSU.

Makkin

I'm one of those patriot types who believe in defending my country.
 

  I'm one of those realists that know history shows us not to ever be like Russia.

Makkin, why not to be realistic and not to support your AW then?! Just imagine the way you are going to spoil your great american blood by accepting a woman from the FSU
It's good that you mentioned it there as I was going to answer your PM and write a letter to you, I am lucky to be late as here I can see your point of view on my country, maybe you shouldn't go on Jack's tours anymore , so you will see more people and less whores, just an advice.


Gator

please keep in mind that this thread started about the same as your thread on orphan deaths, based on an anti-American article in Pravda. 

It was not taken from Pravda,and we have already discussed anti-american propaganda here arriving at a conclusion that the things which does exists is anti-russian propaganda but not anti-american one ,

 many western newspapers wrote about that//but that news was tiny in comparison with such great events as the wedding dress of the ex -wife of the French president...so you have to admit that the article was taken and it was the truth and it was a real event noone wanted to discuss as they considered it to be unworthy in comparison with "problems of russia, bla bla bla...."old-fashioned and boring

[wxman]

third: I guess in the USA they don't catch illegal immigrants from Mexica or Kuba and just let them all come to the USa and just treat them all well 

Actually we aren't very good at catching illegal immigrants. That is why there is an estimated 11 million illegals in this country. Perhaps we could get some training from Russian authorities.    As far as Cubans, they have a nice little law that protects them. Has been in effect since Castro became leader and is still in effect. Basically, if they can get one foot on US soil, they are allowed to stay. Only applies to Cubans and no one else. What a dumb law. 

[Serebro]

Maybe they spit in the bucket thinking this will stop other men from drinking out of the bucket, keeping the RW "delights" all for themselves and not having to share. 

yeah

Jazzy

and after observing how western members of the forum react and what they say here, one can doubt how they ever attracted any russian women at all !

Jazzy, they look at pictures of them on Elenasmodels and their brains stop working they just read the instruction on how to come and get

[55North]

Not quite correct.  She asked me to come.  And now she wants to marry me.  Who am I to say no? 
 

[Serebro]

As far as Cubans, they have a nice little law that protects them. Has been in effect since Castro became leader and is still in effect. Basically, if they can get one foot on US soil, they are allowed to stay. Only applies to Cubans and no one else. What a dumb law. 

...
does this apply to all Cubans or only to Cubans who live on Cuba itself?!

[Serebro]

Not quite correct.  She asked me to come.  And now she wants to marry me.  Who am I to say no? 
 

has she proposed?!!!!!!
you should have said no, that you are a patriot and that you would never marry a commie
btw, do you know that all your ladies who are older than 26 have used to be pioneers :hairraising: