How fat is too fat?

[jdk1963]

"Refuses all help" is way to broad and doesn't even pertain to this discussion but, for the sake of the discussion couldn't you possibly surmise someone who refuses needed help  could likely be very sick? You apparently want to argue a point you have no chance of winning. You've started with a conclusion and now try to piece meal opinion to support it. If you view a marriage as a suicide pact, you really shouldn't be getting married.

"To love and cherish through sickness and in health, for better or worse as long as you both shall live" is a promise you make. If you can't keep the promise, don't make it. I gather jdk, you make a lot of promises you don't keep?

To answer your question, no, I would not jump unless for some reason I felt the need too. The spouse requesting the other to jump would be the one breaking the vows. Just as the physical abuser in a relationship would be breaking the vows with the first strike.

I want to add that anyone who believes that an alcoholic or a drug abuser is only abusing him/herself is a fool.   

You can try to rationalize and find excuses 1000's of ways for breaking your vows and generally only one way for honoring them. You've came up with a couple, keep at it I am sure you can find more.

What rationalization?  A person who refuses all attempts at help is no different than someone who would jump off a cliff, point a gun to their head, or get physically abusive.  All of them are "sick" in some way.  You seem to picking and choosing what suits you.  In every case you can intervene and fail.  At some point you have to cut the cord and accept that there is nothing more that you can do.

The only way I have of losing this argument is if one party determines that one form of abusive behavior is acceptable and others are not.  The only rationalization going on is yours by rationalizing one form of abuse as acceptable over another. 

As I pointed out clearly if a person refuses all attempts at help they have broken the vows.  This is no different than physical abuse.  That you cannot see that and find certain forms of abuse acceptable is your failing not mine.

Alcoholism and drug abuse are not solely abusive to the drug addict or alcoholic.  To think otherwise is foolish.

[Ooooops]

Kanyeshna, with one stipulation.. you must include a photo of me making a goofy face at the camera to emphasize the "moment" .. heh   :evil:

No problem.   Which one should I use - the one where you flash a lady with avos'ka or you have a better one?   

[Blues Fairy]

Today he told me they are getting divorced.  She is out drinking and not coming home.
BTW.. she gained a ton of weight in the last year.  They both lost parents in the last 12 months.
What would you do Faux?  Just asking.. not trying to start a fight.  

May I answer?  Take her to a really good therapist and stand by her while she's in treatment; it's as clear as it gets.  But instead, the man's divorcing her, right?  Typical.   

[Sculpto]

May I answer?  Take her to a really good therapist and stand by her while she's in treatment; it's as clear as it gets.  But instead, the man's divorcing her, right?  Typical.   

No Blues.. she is divorcing him, and holding the kids hostage.. her apparent lesbian lover hit one of his kids when drunk.. a little five year old girl got smacked by a big black lesbian..

[Taz]

Most states treat a marriage as a contract between two parties. In a contract where there is a breach of contract you have remedies. In this case it is divorce.

So what course do YOU have if your partner, continues breaches the contract? You CAN'T force them to get help unless they want to.

BF- talk about being judgmental... you immediately assumed that the man was guilty. There are a HUGE percentage of women that file for divorce. Last stats I saw it was pretty equal in most states and in my state more women filed for men. Does that make women the bigger quitters than men?

Not everything can be fixed through therapy. Not all problems have a solution. Some thing that are broken can never be repaired. I feel you should make a sincere and reasonable attempt to resolve your differences. I am one person who is not going down with the sinking ship if I've done what I reasonably can. I am not going to stay married to a women with mental illness and put my kids at risk for example. This is just a hypothetical situation. It comes down to a situation where lead the horse to water and it doesn't drink, I am not going to kill myself trying to correct the problem. I'll make a reasonable and prudent effort to fix it. I've spent enough time on lost causes in my life to avoid that cesspool.

OTOH if my partner has a terminal illness, I'll stand by them. In a situation like that it would be essential. If my partner were a drug addict though, I would encourage them to get treatment (repeatedly). If after a reasonable period of time they didn't. Then I would give them a final warning. If not then I'd have them committed to treatment. If they leave treatment or don't follow the plan. Then it's done. I've followed through on my commitment to the relationship. In effect they've already killed themselves no point making the children suffer any more.

BF - your ideas sound good in theoretical sense just lie communism and socialism. When put in practice, it doesn't always work the way you planned. I know from personal experience. I've been down this "treatment" road with several loved ones. If they don't want to get treatment, there is almost nothing you can do. Until THEY themselves decide to get help, you are just wasting your energy, emotion and love. I am all for helping people in a time of need but you can only waste your effort for so long...

BTW - therapy definitely doesn't cure a lot of things. There are absolutely NO GUARANTEES in this area!

Fortunately many younger women may have as complex as issues as older women but typically since they are younger, the are not so deeply ingrained and can be easier to to fix. It is typically easier to correct a problem that has been only occurring for a year or two than one for 10 or 20 years. Not always of course but the less time a problem has been in effect, the easier correction typically is. At least we are sort of back on topic again. 

[Daveman]

...
BTW - therapy definitely doesn't cure a lot of things. There are absolutely NO GUARANTEES in this area!

...

Therapy definitely cures nothing.  It's merely a compass needle. The individual must want and be willing to navigate the path -- no one else can walk the walk for them.  Encourage, yes, but all "healing" comes from within.

[jdk1963]

May I answer?  Take her to a really good therapist and stand by her while she's in treatment; it's as clear as it gets.  But instead, the man's divorcing her, right?  Typical.   

Really?  My uncle was in a nasty accident which left him disabled.  His wife bailed on him.  Typical right?

[Daveman]

No problem.   Which one should I use - the one where you flash a lady with avos'ka or you have a better one?   

Well, since this thread is about weight gain, how about a before/after set?

I was rather thin, and as you can see, I filled out somewhat... I think I carry it well, but lost my arms in there somewhere, so it's difficult to flash without hopping and causing bodily injury!  

[Sculpto]

I spent five years with a woman that had serious issues that needed therapy.. what finally got her to go after three years of pleading and encouraging?  BREAKING UP WITH HER  and even then it took her years to heal and after her "healing" she became so selfish that she was no longer even a little bit fun to be around.

[Taz]

I can understand that. But was she still skinny? Did you still find her physically attractive? 

[Sculpto]

I can understand that. But was she still skinny? Did you still find her physically attractive? 

lol.. she is the one that gained 60 lbs in five years.. but that had absolutely nothing to do with why I broke up with her.. it was the getting drunk and insulting my friends.. the psychotic behavior in private.. the final straw was when she destroyed one of my sculptures for no reason.. well.. there was a reason.. she liked to piss me off so I would punish her.. got her hot.. but enough was enough

[Taz]

What many women don't understand is that a certain male appendage doesn't exactly work on command. It can also be an effective barometer of the relationship. I had a good friend in college that his "equipment" started to malfunction the heavier his woman got. At some point there was no liftoff...

She lost a few pounds (20) and things were back to normal. Even though he still loved her, his body didn't have the appropriate "reaction" in a purely physical sense. I can only imagine some of the conversations they had about this topic. Maybe something like this:

Veronica - "Richard, I am feeling a little frisky tonight. Do you wanna..."

Richard - "Of course I wanna... I need to check out little Richie first. You know what happened before. Yea, I'd like to forget too but ... Hey little buddy, whatcha think? You what, you want her to step on the scale? Why you insensitive little pr!ck. What will she think if I ask her to step on the scale again? Last time I did that WE didn't get any action for a month! So what about her sweatpants?"

Little Ritchie - "Who are you calling LITTLE? Hey you big sonofagun! Who you calling a little pr!ck??? Dude, you know I don't do fat chicks!!! Didn't you figure it out last time. Just verify they numbers are still ok and were good to go. I'll never let you down if you just follow the rules. You must have me confused with one of those guys they tried to school on Oprah with all this lovey-dovey stuff! Man, I'm not into that. Don't try and have me get in touch with my feminine side, we darn near didn't recover from that experiment!!! Man your first clue right now should be she is wearing her fat pants!"

Richard - "Sorry honey, please just get on the scale... Ok, you don't want on the scale. I wouldn't be concerned now if you weren't wearing your fat...errrr sweat pants"
[muttering under breath - Curse you little Ritchie, I started to say fat pants. I knew I shouldn't listen to you].

Back to speaking to Veronica again "You only wear those for pants 2 reasons honey. No honey I am implying it is that time of the... ok, ok, sorry I am not insinuating you are bloated or retaining water. TMI TMI!!!! No, dear, I am not an insensitive little pri!ck. Little Ritchie, I mean BIG Ritchie is the little, no I mean big, insensitive pr!ck. No he's not a pr!ck, he's a ... oh, just forget it dear. Little Ritchie, now see what you've gone and made me do."

Little Ritchie - "Cmon big buddy, what they heck do I have these pair of things hanging around my neck if you are never going to use them? It took you long enough to grow them, now use them man!"

The preceding was for humor only. No real or otherwise fictitious people were harmed in the making of this post. If you are offended by humor let me point you to the less funny people on this board like ... nah, not going to go there.

[Ade]

And here's what I think.... those that get into a relationship based primarily on the physical will be harder hit by a partners weight gain than those that fall for the person as a whole. Those who have a disconnect between the the physical act of sex and intimacy with a person they love are going to have real issues, and those issues will come. Relatively few people, men and women no matter where they were born, can keep slim and trim forever.  

If you look at your partner and imagine them with 50% more weight and you find the image repulsive then you should be looking at you own motivations for being with that person in the first place.

[Ooooops]

And here's what I think.... for those that get into a relationship based primarily on the physical will be harder hit by a partners weight gain than those that fall for the person as a whole. Those where there's a disconnect between physical sex and intimacy with a person they love are going to have real issues, and those issues will come.

PPKS!   

[Ooooops]

I was rather thin, and as you can see, I filled out somewhat... I think I carry it well, but lost my arms in there somewhere, so it's difficult to flash without hopping and causing bodily injury!   

Wow!   That's a major transformation - from man eating insect to an olive branch carrier...   

[Blues Fairy]

BF- talk about being judgmental... you immediately assumed that the man was guilty. There are a HUGE percentage of women that file for divorce. Last stats I saw it was pretty equal in most states and in my state more women filed for men. Does that make women the bigger quitters than men?

Taz, you mistook me.  I meant "typical" not in a sense of MAN being always guilty of bailing out but in a sense of people bailing out on the problem instead of trying to solve it.  For all I care, it may be the woman's fault as well.  I've been guilty of same in my younger years. 
But if there are kids involved, I think bailing out without trying is unforgivable; yeah, I guess I'm judgmental here.

Regarding who initiates divorce - it's a well-known fact that women are more frequent initiators, officially, but it says absolutely nothing about which party is the real cause.  If one's a drunk and the other is divorcing him/her, who has caused the divorce?  Things are not as black-and-white as you describe and it usually takes two to tango.

If they don't want to get treatment, there is almost nothing you can do. Until THEY themselves decide to get help, you are just wasting your energy, emotion and love.

Agree. However, sometimes it may be worth looking at what kind of energy and emotion you are applying to get a loved one start treatment.  Some emotions work better than the others. 

[Taz]

I never have bailed out on a relationship without trying to save it. Did I always exhaust every means possible no, but I always tried at least reasonable efforts to work it out. Obviously the deeper my attraction to the woman, the more I tried to work out our differences assuming it was a topic that wasn't an automatic end of relationship. For me that would be infidelity. I never had that issue but for me there is no compromise on that issue. That would destroy all the trust in the relationship and it would be 100% over for me. No trust = no relationship!

[Ooooops]

I never have bailed out on a relationship without trying to save it.

 No trust = no relationship!

Is it your 3d marriage or am I mistaken?   

[Misha]

The preceding was for humor only. No real or otherwise fictitious people were harmed in the making of this post. If you are offended by humor let me point you to the less funny people on this board like ... nah, not going to go there.

Well, I wasn't offended, but the humor was certainly juvenile. Brought back memories of hanging out on the schoolyard when I was 13 

[Taz]

Ooooopss - Not married currently. If I get married again it will be my 3rd. They say that statistically the 3rd marriage is the most successful as people typically have learned to be more realistic about their approach and expectations for marriage. The don't think about it in an overly idealized and romantic fashion while at the same time they have learned most of the skills they to make it successful.

Misha- sorry if I didn't make the humor high-brow or elitist enough for you. I subscribe to the least common denominator principle when it comes to humor. That way more people get it. It also seems to be quite popular on this board the way people attack each other. Seems to often be a common theme here. I thought it might bring a brief respite from the red-meat-loving attack dogs that seem to be out lately. You are welcome to offer your own comedic interlude of course.

BF - I am not the only one who mistook your words, that I can assure you. MAN in general will often take the path of least resistance. It is the economy of energy principle. It is human nature to descend toward chaos as that is the more natural state of existence as it requires the least amount of energy to maintain. To maintain order on the other hand requires continuous energy input. People will only input that energy if there is something worthwhile to be gained.

So if women file more divorces than men, does that mean they believe less in the vow of "for better or for worse" or will they just claim that it was the male's fault and that is why they are seeking a divorce?

[Blues Fairy]

So if women file more divorces than men, does that mean they believe less in the vow of "for better or for worse" or will they just claim that it was the male's fault and that is why they are seeking a divorce?

Can't really say.  From my own experience, men are less inclined to take responsibility. They prefer to just make things intolerable so the woman goes ahead and quits, and takes the "blame".

[Boethius]

And here's what I think.... those that get into a relationship based primarily on the physical will be harder hit by a partners weight gain than those that fall for the person as a whole. Those who have a disconnect between the the physical act of sex and intimacy with a person they love are going to have real issues, and those issues will come. Relatively few people, men and women no matter where they were born, can keep slim and trim forever.  

If you look at your partner and imagine them with 50% more weight and you find the image repulsive then you should be looking at you own motivations for being with that person in the first place.

I agree.  But, you may as well be speaking Urdu.  Some posters here will never get it.

[Boethius]

If I get married again it will be my 3rd. They say that statistically the 3rd marriage is the most successful as people typically have learned to be more realistic about their approach and expectations for marriage.

Statistically, third marriages have the highest rates of divorce.

[ECOCKS]

Yes, Granny might say that the third try is the charm, but according to the Center for Disease Control, she'd be wrong.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=363986

So much for Granny...

[Lily]

How some fat girls resolve their problems Russian speakers, enjoy!