Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: KenC on May 13, 2008, 09:51:41 AM
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Are there certain types of men or certain personalities of men that should not get involved with this process?
It has long been said here that RW are not for everyone. I have always maintained that men with little or no dating skills should avoid this process as the possibility for them to be eaten by sharks is just too great. Your thoughts?
KenC
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A quote I really like is "RW are not for entry level dating." (think this was from jb) which, to me anyway, sums it all up in a nutshell.
The following are all intertwined but here are a few things that will paint a big red target on your forehead:
- Weak personality type
- Lack of self confidence
- Submissiveness
- Indecisiveness
- Prone to depression or mood problems
- Lack of patience
Plenty of other things could be added here. It all boils down to: if a man is not comfortable in his own skin and has a lack of social skills he's better off sticking with the local scene.
FWIW
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"RW are not for entry level dating."
Catz,
That was the phrase that escaped me when I posted! Thanks.
What I find ironic is that over the years th American feminist movement has put forth a mantra for men to become more sensitive and submissive to women, which is in direct contrast to what most RW want. And I think what most AW want too. Sometimes what they say is not what they really want. It is too bad for the guys that have bought into the concept.
KenC
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Yeah, jb's words that you will need the patience of a Saint still rings strong here.
Some others:
RW don't make good 'rebound' material.
If you aren't dating at home, don't look overseas.
Think thrice about sending off your very first passport application.. Your destination is close to emotional hell..
You will usually overspend at the grocery store if you are hungry walking in.. Same applies to this venture if you are horny..
RW do not resolve depression or obsessive/compulsive disorders.. seek professional help instead.
If your first thoughts looking at a woman's profile is "I could have her.." you are with likely very wrong.
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I agree wholeheartedly, and I know them when I see them but it would be difficult for me to explain exactly why, off the top of my head without giving it some more thought...
I can give you an example from the "meat" world, though:
One of the project managers in the company I work for has been on me for almost three years running about wanting to come along on my next trip to Russia so he can meet some RW, with the thoughts that he might eventually find a wife. It will NEVER happen.
I have come to regard this guy as a friend. He is a nice, honest, hardworking man with a good job, a beautiful 20th floor condo on Aventura Beach, and a strong devotion to his family (brother, sister, parents). He is about 5'6" 200lbs, Iranian decent, Jewish faith, no Brad Pitt, but wasn't beaten with the ugly stick either. His father has spent time in Saint Petersburg and has urged the son to go and experience it for himself. Everything mentioned so far could be spun to work in his favor.
On the other end of the spectrum, parents live next door, 44 and never married, he has little domestic dating experience, he is a habitual offender when it comes to speaking when he should be listening & standing silent when he should be speaking up, wearing his heart on his sleeve, bending over backwards to help others (to his own detriment) so he's easily taken advantage of, and needing things spelled out in infinitesimal detail - sometimes repeatedly. He lives in a condo instead of a house because he likes being taken care of. He likes the fact that there is a security staff watching all the entrances and exits, all the time. He likes the fact that he can pick up the phone at any time of day or night and someone will be sent upstairs to attend to whatever problem happens to arise. He is without question, the type of guy that will need his hand held and his nose wiped from start to finish and beyond. In my mind, he is the perfect target for scammers, pro daters, and all manner of unscrupulous women in the FSU. All of these, along with a general "gut sense" that he more likely to be eaten alive than to be able to find/court/wed/live happily ever after contribute to my assessment that he's better off looking closer to home.
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I think Jet has made a very good post to answer Ken's question about an example of who shouldn't try the FSUW route. However, an argument could be made that this man won't be successful with AW or any W either.
To change the focus just a little, I will go against the conventional wisdom here and state that I have found little difference between dating FSUW and AW. I don't consider myself any sort of expert, whether the Don Juan type, or any other specific type of guy who is successful with women. But, I simply haven't had many major problems with FSUW (re the eaten by sharks concept) that I haven't also encountered with AW. And, on a percentage basis, the problems have been minor in both cases. However, I must repeat again that my experience is mostly with highly educated professional ladies in the 35-50 age bracket.
So I conclude from my own experience, that any guy who would be eaten by FSUW sharks will also be eaten by W sharks from their home country. So just depends on where you want to get eaten!! :-))
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KenC Great thread
Wow several posts in a row without any gobble-de-goop, new age
mumble jumble poster.
Catz made a post which could be put in the FAQs
BC followed with some good points
Jet came through with story to describe a guy not suited for this venture.
This is a great thread start!!!!!
Bill
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Well, Pike made a point that maybe men with the characteristics that Catz pointed out would be hard pressed to be successful with any kind of woman. Or would he? :noidea: I have met quite a few very mild mannered AW that would love a "low key" type of man. I have not met that kind of RW yet.
In most cases I think couples seek out their equals in the area of strength. The stronger the woman , the stronger the man she would require and vs versa too. In all the RW I have met (and we have a lot of RW friends) and all the RW in my own family, I have yet to meet a meek and submissive RW.
KenC
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I have yet to meet a meek and submissive RW.
KenC
I have to agree with you there Ken. I also have yet to meet such a RW.
Misha
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This is all so very true. I almost sunk myself from the beginning with my GF by being indecisive and making almost fatal errors like asking if I could come visit her instead of telling her I was going to. Fortunately my GF is very communicative and she warned me very early on that I needed to change my way of thinking if I expected her to stay around. Blame it on being married for 10 years to a woman who very much ran the show. One of the first things my GF said to me was, "You don't date much, do you?" I'm glad she was patient with me and we've since worked out a lot of those early jitters on my end.
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I'm the head of my house and I know this is so because my Russian wife told me. ::)
I/O
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Time for a story break. This fits because it is about tough Russian women and men who marry them. I wrote this last year
My dinner at a Manhattan restaurant with a beautiful RW, a feminist AM and his dumpy homely fat AW girlfriend. Also with us was another RW and her grown son the friend of the feminist-AM.
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Inna.jpg)
Throughout the evening this AM is sneaking looks at the RW sitting beside him. He seems to be admiring her profile and other parts during those brief looks. Sitting across from him is his dumpy fat AW girlfriend. You know the kind that no amount of dieting, exercise and plastic surgery would elevate her looks to a "5". She's a "2" at best with a guaranteed ticket of going down hill to less than zero. In other words aging will hit her harder than most. Needless to say she was not warm and friendly to the RW. I don't recall her even speaking to her. I was told by the other RW that she was giving the sleek RW the evil eye.
Anyway during the dinner conversation the subject gets over to Russian MOB's and why men marry them. The feminist man says the reason AM go to Russia is to get "subservient women". His fat dumpy AW girlfriend with coarse facial features and thick stubby limbs snorts her approval. The beautiful sleek RW does not react as she's the quiet type (unless she knows you!) but the other RW does. She tells him that few AM look for "subservient women" in RW and those that do soon find out they were mistaken. She then tells him he has been propagandized by feminist propaganda and he doesn't know *snip*. This guy BTW is of 100% Russian heritage and speaks Russian from his childhood. I suggested at that point I do an filmed interview of him for Russian media distribution of what happens to RM(boys) who are raised in America. The RW and I starting laughing thinking how his feminist psycho-babble would play to a Russian audience. He declines the interview. The conversation goes on with the fat dumpy AW scoffing at some of the things the RW said. Finally she says "RW are weak pushovers in compared with American women". I told her she didn't know RW and I would put my money on a RW in a contest of wills anyday. It got a bit heated and uncomfortable but eventually the conversation cooled off.
Afterwards outside the Manhattan restaurant the 2 RW deep in conversation started walking together down the street "towards" the subway station. True to the feminine weakness of not knowing directions they were heading in the wrong direction. The rest of us looked at them as they were walking a half a block away 90 degrees in the wrong direction. The son of the RW said "Were are they going?" To which the fat dumpy AW snorted "They couldn't win the argument so they ran way".
The pathetic part about all of this is the feminist man IS interested in the RW and she IS interested in him (from behind the scenes stuff I was told). He by the way is the same age as the sleek RW and is good looking. However he is settling for the politically correct choice. It is said the feminism was created by unattractive women to give them access to good looking men. I wasn't so sure about that theory until now.
Maxx
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on the extreeme side of things -
regardless of personality traits, nationality , or what have you-
any man, that would propose marriage and file a K1 for a woman that has shown almost zero interest ,and shown no affection of any kind, should not bother with international dating.
the waters there are just too dangerous for a non- swimmer!!!!!!!!!!!
now as pike mentioned ,likey for such a man, there are very hazardous conditions in in his local pond as well ,
and he may drown.
but the FSU would be like him attempting white water rafting.. with no life vest,,
and his chance of drowing is very much increased.
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AJ, I had a conversation with Cameraguy a few months ago. He told me a story about you. He said you were walking down the street in Ukraine with you're future wife. She was chewing your as$ out on something. You slowed your pace until she was slightly ahead of you and you ducked into a store, bar or something, leaving her flapping her gums and bitching at you that wasn't there. We both admired what you had done. You are the man!
Maxx
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If people aren't telling you you're opinionated on a regular basis and strong-willed to a fault..
You might not be up for the challenge.
If you were dumped by your ex instead of the other way around....
You might not want to start a relationship with a FSUW until you dated and done some dumping yourself.
If you know you should but can't end a relationship in the early stages because she's soooo beautiful and you think she's the best you can catch,
You definitely shouldn't travel to the FSU.
Some might take issue with these comments and maybe I've stated them inartfully, but my point is that in my opinion, a guy needs a whale of a lot of self-confidence if he's to avoid disaster on this journey. I say this because there are any physically attractive, sexy women who will show interest in him then when she starts acting badly, he won't be able to tell her to get lost. A confident man can do that because he can keep his emotions under control when he knows this will be a very important decision so he shouldn't settle for beauty alone.. Her beauty will turn like leaves in the fall while her insolence will only grow.
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LOL maxx,
no not the man
while i did do that.....(umm,,embarrisingly two different times )
it was a pretty immature act, actually.
The circumstances in that case were a bit different than that,
she wasn't bitching *at* me.
actually we were just walking along enjoying the city, and that was our plan for the day-
and suddenly she just started going somewhere in a pointed and particular direction,like
she had a purpose or intent.
thats ok, but when i asked , innocently enough ,
where are we going ?
i got a very unusual for her:
"why do you need to know?" with dripping sarcasm..
me: "hmmm,, obviously i don't"
(to be fair , she normally would always be polite and considerate,
and ask me if i wanted to see or do this or that, or could we go *here* as she was interested in doing something....
so even though she is very headstrong, it was unusual behaviour from her ,and really caught me off guard )
anyway -
she kept walking at a more irritated pace,,i kept lagging further since she wouldnt talk about whatever was "actually" bothering her on such a nice day.
and she dint really notice that i was getting so far behind her ..
which pissed me off more, than her 'tude already had ..lol!
(as i thought we'd stop and talk it out)
so "whatever"!!!!!!!!!! i diffinantly dont need this!!!!!!!!!!!
i just left her walking down the street thinking i'm a few paces back,,
and went into the crowd and off to a cafe, ,then a store or two,,then a walk along the river to practice russian with a few "interesting locals.." ;),
then the 'net cafe..then to my flat..
we had dated awhile by that time,,
(over a year?)
and I really honestly never expected to see her romantically again,
(who knows how far she went before she noticed i was gone)
now it was sad after all we had been thru,
,but you know,
i was *ok * with that outcome to.....
if she thought i would suffer foolishness gladly.
I had always treated her with utmost respect, and expected the same. period.
thats NOT an area of compromise.
Much later in the day i returned to my flat,
actually surprised to find a full freeked out manhunt had been underway ,,
(What the heck? i knew my way around the city afterall,and did not expect that she would
look for me )
really just a bunch of silliness - over her just having a really bad day,
and a lot of seriuos personal troubles on her mind that she wasn't prepared, or willing,
to discuss.
and me just being me.
which means i'm liable to do something like that at anytime, regardless of situation.lol
it wasnt a total loss..
we both learned a bit ..about each other..
she learned to actually EXPRESS if there are things bothering her,
and what they are.
and that ,yes , a certain level of respect is a minimum standard ,
or i will disappear ,without a word.
(she knows that its a real possibilty i might have just left for home ,without even contacting her )
I learned that i can still be pretty immature if my buttons are pushed..
as i should have tried to find out what was underneath the unusual behaviour..
and recognized she is simply far more private than i am,,
and i should have called to at least say,,
*hey i'm ok,,but we need to talk about our words ,actions and mutual respect of each other*
or
* i'm ok , its been real..but see you around*
anything would be a bit more adult like.lol
i dont really regret my silly actions..at times.
as at those points in time, in those contexts ,,it made perfect sense to me and still does...lol!!
but its far from making me "the man"
it really just a case of people setting thier personal boundries,,
and unforunantly i'm a bit more extreeme and not shy about it at all.
(in the past i've announced to everyone in a restuarant , or in an airplane lol ,
if my *gf at the moment *conveniently* wanted to start some delicate
topic or fight in public,,unforunantly i will finish it there at volume just loud enough to ensure a staring crowd.. .. and maybe even ask for opinions from volunteers from the audience..lol it's no embarrasment to me..)
that tends to make me more of a jerk, than *the man*..
and is positively mortifying to most "terminally privite" RW,
my wifes a saint to deal with me really.
and its probably why i'm always drawn to strong willed ,head strong women,with high self esteem.
sorry for the novalla..
bucky and you had both asked about that incident though..
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If people aren't telling you you're opinionated on a regular basis and strong-willed to a fault..
You might not be up for the challenge.
If you were dumped by your ex instead of the other way around....
You might not want to start a relationship with a FSUW until you dated and done some dumping yourself.
If you know you should but can't end a relationship in the early stages because she's soooo beautiful and you think she's the best you can catch,
You definitely shouldn't travel to the FSU.
Ah, that's probably why I survived despite my shaky beginnings. I was the one who asked for the divorce, and right before I met my girlfriend, I had just dumped a beautiful AW who seemed so perfect on the surface. College professor, 28, loved drinking beer, great sense of humor, never married, no kids. Problem was the crazy broad wouldn't fly. Absolutely refused to even consider it. Uh, yeah, that's not gonna work. I had to send her down the road. I guess I did have just a tiny bit of confidence. Otherwise my Russian girlfriend would have eaten me alive. :D
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I guess I did have just a tiny bit of confidence. Otherwise my Russian girlfriend would have eaten me alive. :D
Don't count your chickens before they've hatched, there is time enough yet..............
I/O
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Face to face time is either your greatest asset or liability - long term results will depend on how much you are willing and able to invest.
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I'm the head of my house and I know this is so because my Russian wife told me. ::)
LOL! Mat you are truly on the path to OMB status! :D
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AJ,
I do something similar with Lena all the time! It is usually when we are shopping; something I hate to do anyway. Lena has a bad habit of getting too wrapped up in her goal to find something or get some where and forgets that I am with her. When she gets too far ahead, I stop and wait for her to notice I am not with her. Usually it only takes a little bit of time and then she walks back and apologizes. But there have been cases when I will just go my own way from there too. Going into stores I want to see or even going back to the car. With cell phones, how lost can you really be?
I will disagree with you though, AJ, because to me it is all about being the man. Or at least demanding that you are accounted for. ;) It all centers around your own self worth IMO. I know you well enough to know you spoil the heck out of your wife as do I. But we do not do so at the expense of selling ourselves short either. Too many men in Maxx's stories have no sense of self worth. If you don't think you deserve the respect yourself, who else is going to give it to you?
KenC
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LOL! Mat you are truly on the path to OMB status! :D
Nah...took the bypass, sad news is, there's nothing on the other side.
I/O
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KenC-
LMAO!! ,,
yes i have been a few times on those "quest for the holy grail" type shopping trips,,
and similarly -just stopped or gone into shops.-
As you mentioned with a cell , how out of contact can you be?
like lena , tanya will laugh and apologize about it anymore..
(familiarity with how i am,,and being in an established marriage is different than the dating stage lol)
at the time, it difinantly wasnt funny that first incident though, it was more to do with her words and attitude ,than anything else..
(and no i was difinantly not answering my cell , was not going to ,and had every a intention of just leaving the country... likely wuth a few new phone numbers in hand.. )
we went thru a couple of those earlier serious type situations,
I tend to be hard to upset,,but if you do push my buttons ,youll get a huge overreaction...lol
She finally determined to herself i wasnt normal ,and possibly completely crazy...but still married me anyway..lol
as far as spoiling my wife,there is no doubt that i'm guilty as charged.
(to the best of my abilty)
as far as having pretty dang clear boundries on respect in our relationship ,just as guilty.
i agree with you in that i do think it is about both people setting personal boundries of what they condsider good fundamental mutual respect.
if you dont have that..then there is very little foundation to build a relationship on in
the first place?
If you dont repect yourself,you will find very few RW who will.
most RW "know their value " well. and have a heaping helping of self esteem and self respect.
To me thats a good thing,
but i do think western men tend to not be as up front about their own.
and in that culture they need to.
it is somewhat a cultural thing?
A RW by her social and cultural enviroment will tend to have a pretty stong sense of "self" ,pretty hard to deal with a normal RM without it?
just a thought?
roykirk-
her having a fear or phobia of flying was deal breaker with an AW?
and the only issue?
i guess i'm a pushover, that wouldnt have bothered me much,if it was the only issue.
weird yes,
dealbreaker if she was a great person.no.
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KenC-
LMAO!! ,,
yes i have been a few times on those "quest for the holy grail" type shopping trips,,
and similarly -just stopped or gone into shops.-
As you mentioned with a cell , how out of contact can you be?
like lena , tanya will laugh and apologize about it anymore..
(familiarity with how i am,,and being in an established marriage is different than the dating stage lol)
at the time, it difinantly wasnt funny that first incident though, it was more to do with her words and attitude ,than anything else..
(and no i was difinantly not answering my cell , was not going to ,and had every a intention of just leaving the country... likely wuth a few new phone numbers in hand.. )
we went thru a couple of those earlier serious type situations,
I tend to be hard to upset,,but if you do push my buttons ,youll get a huge overreaction...lol
She finally determined to herself i wasnt normal ,and possibly completely crazy...but still married me anyway..lol
as far as spoiling my wife,there is no doubt that i'm guilty as charged.
(to the best of my abilty)
as far as having pretty dang clear boundries on respect in our relationship ,just as guilty.
i agree with you in that i do think it is about both people setting personal boundries of what they condsider good fundamental mutual respect.
if you dont have that..then there is very little foundation to build a relationship on in
the first place?
If you dont repect yourself,you will find very few RW who will.
most RW "know their value " well. and have a heaping helping of self esteem and self respect.
To me thats a good thing,
but i do think western men tend to not be as up front about their own.
and in that culture they need to.
it is somewhat a cultural thing?
A RW by her social and cultural enviroment will tend to have a pretty stong sense of "self" ,pretty hard to deal with a normal RM without it?
just a thought?
AJ,
Lena had always used the phrase that she "knew her own price" meaning that she knew her value. And what is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Too many guys in this process do not understand their own value. Or at least grossly under estimate it.
During the development of the relationship and even after marriage, the couple is jockey-ing for positions, "setting the boundaries" as you say. I think this is where Maxx's guys fail miserably. They give in to everything with no regard to their own well being. They trade their own self worth for the supposed happiness of their spouse. If they had the balls to just say "No" in the beginning when their partner crossed the line, they would have never found themselves in the terrible positions they ended up with. RW are strong and they will test you every step of the way. Some of us pass the tests and some us do not. What they (Maxx's guys) seem to confuse is being a "nice guy" should have nothing to do with abandoning your self worth. If you have to trade your manhood in order to make your woman happy, she isn't worth being with.
KenC
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What they (Maxx's guys) seem to confuse is being a "nice guy" should have nothing to do with abandoning your self worth. If you have to trade your manhood in order to make your woman happy, she isn't worth being with.
BINGO!
Probably why (being the first class pr!ck that I am, according to my ex's) I booted the second to last one out of my house and walked away from the last AW's that I was in relationships with. After they felt comfortable enough in the relationship they decided that I needed fixing or changing. Sorry girls, I like being broken just like I am and if I was good enough to get with in the first place then I'm good enough as I am. Don't like that... well then, See Ya Later!
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roykirk-
her having a fear or phobia of flying was deal breaker with an AW?
and the only issue?
i guess i'm a pushover, that wouldnt have bothered me much,if it was the only issue.
weird yes,
dealbreaker if she was a great person.no.
There were a couple of smaller issues, but yes, it was the main issue. It was a deal breaker simply because travel is my passion. My job is what gives me the money to travel. I don't really think of myself as having a career. Just since the first of the year, I've been to Mexico, Thailand, the Arctic, Russia 3 times, and next week off to Italy. I just need Australia to have all 7 continents under my belt. Hey I/O, got a room to rent? ;-) Being with someone who had no desire to leave their comfortable nest in anything other than a car wouldn't have worked out too well for me. ;-)
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AJ,
Lena had always used the phrase that she "knew her own price" meaning that she knew her value. And what is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Too many guys in this process do not understand their own value. Or at least grossly under estimate it.
KenC
But isn't it also true there are quite a few guys who overestimate their value as well? What comes to mind are guys who can't date a woman here but go over their thinking their citizenship/passport and $35,000 a year salary make them a real catch to any beautiful woman in the FSU who they think they are rescuing from a life of poverty and misery.
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But isn't it also true there are quite a few guys who overestimate their value as well? What comes to mind are guys who can't date a woman here but go over their thinking their citizenship/passport and $35,000 a year salary make them a real catch to any beautiful woman in the FSU who they think they are rescuing from a life of poverty and misery.
I personally do not know of any guys that over sold themselves. Has anyone else?
KenC
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That sounds more like someone who "thinks" he is All That when he actually is Not That Much. A "poser" who has spent a lot of time in fantasy land and buys into any bit of the hype that boosts his faulty perceptions.
I've seen a few who were wannabe successes that ended up as crash & burns or just never got off the ground far enough to crash & burn.
Perhaps that is what you meant by "oversold".
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I personally do not know of any guys that over sold themselves. Has anyone else?
KenC
I actually know of 2, but I do believe it happens semi-frequently amongst the guys that don't avail themselves of the internet resources at their disposal (including sites like RWD). Lil refers to these types as "the artificial aristocrat" :-\
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Usually it only takes a little bit of time and then she walks back and apologizes.
This is what ruins this board. You get a guy who says he's married to a RW, poses with a cardboard cutout of one so he can make a realistic looking avatar then even creates this alter ego whom he pretends to be his wife.
Then, he goes a step too far and the jig is up! No RW apologizes. Not ever! Never! Never! It's in her DNA.
Well, Okay....I guess... I guess every rule has to have it's exception. Congratulations Lena. You're awsome! :flowers:
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BINGO!
Probably why (being the first class pr!ck that I am, according to my ex's) I booted the second to last one out of my house and walked away from the last AW's that I was in relationships with. After they felt comfortable enough in the relationship they decided that I needed fixing or changing. Sorry girls, I like being broken just like I am and if I was good enough to get with in the first place then I'm good enough as I am. Don't like that... well then, See Ya Later!
Catz,
Did you ever hear whispers within the family that you had a long lost twin? Lost no more.
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Catz,
Did you ever hear whispers within the family that you had a long lost twin? Lost no more.
LOL! Well I always blame my stupid actions on my Evil Twin Skippy so it likes now we've got triplets!
P.S. If you want you can blame Skippy for things too... :D
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This is what ruins this board. You get a guy who says he's married to a RW, poses with a cardboard cutout of one so he can make a realistic looking avatar then even creates this alter ego whom he pretends to be his wife.
Then, he goes a step too far and the jig is up! No RW apologizes. Not ever! Never! Never! It's in her DNA.
Ronnie, you probably know too little RW, or RW of some particular type, with damaged DNA. :) I cannot believe that so many women could be so ill mannered as you write.
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This is what ruins this board. You get a guy who says he's married to a RW, poses with a cardboard cutout of one so he can make a realistic looking avatar then even creates this alter ego whom he pretends to be his wife.
Then, he goes a step too far and the jig is up! No RW apologizes. Not ever! Never! Never! It's in her DNA.
Well, Okay....I guess... I guess every rule has to have it's exception. Congratulations Lena. You're awsome! :flowers:
Ronnie,
You are TFF!!!!
OK let me explain. A RW will apologize under certain circumstances: #1 there is no admission of wrong doing of any kind and #2 As long as you don't expect her to apologize!
I used to get pissed when she would walk away from me, but that only led to an argument. Then we would both be pissed off! :arguing: It wasn't worth the argument to me. So I changed tactics. I say nothing and walk away. I actually did this in St Thomas in the Virgin Islands. We were walking though a labyrinth of small shops and Lena kept darting here and there. I said (to myself) screw this! And walked back to a small cafe restaurant to order my lunch. As she walked by I yelled to her "Hey, I'm having lunch here, wanna join me?" (The people at the next table marveled at my pick up techniques! 8)) I avoided the argument, avoided the forever debate of what and where to eat, and Lena apologized for disappearing. Winning the Trifecta in my book!
I have to also point out that Lena has been here for a long time and has picked up some American/Californian habits. She actually smiles in photos now and treats most servers in restaurants well. :P
KenC
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LOL KenC!
i dont think we should compare any more notes..they must be sisters seperated at birth, i had a very very simlar experience in mexico -
same labrynth of shops,, same darting around,, while i dint sit in the cafe there ,i did just go back to the hotel pool/banquet area.. so its eeerily similar enough.... i am NOT a good shopper at all,i told her she needed to marry a woman,
and i am not a good walking ATM..or a good clothes hanger.. i joke with her about it,
so she knows if i *dissappear * to tread a bit lightly lol and anymore sincveerely thanks me if a i do muddle thru a bit of shopping
one BIG thing -LOL
is that when in the grocery store she has finally, after 5 long years,
decided that not every single item (no matter how insignificant or small)
no longer needs the 21 point certified car checklist and safety inspection,,
as well as price debating,
done on it,, -before simply putting it in the cart.
i am pretty flabbergasted if i go with her anymore,,as she can just grab something we need..
and.. um,,put it in the cart. what the heck is THAT about?
i'm really not sure what to make of it,
and asked her if she'd like me to make an appointment
with the doctor? she must not be feeling well at all! ;)
Ronnie,
thats funny ;)
i will tell you that one of the reasons i became so attracted to my wife was ,
that while she was always very opinionated ,
when we had/have a disagreement or tiff, "if" she was wrong (often i was of course lol)
but *if* she was, she would indeed later come back and apologize.sincerely.
while this was never immediate..it did, and does happen.
also she seldom if ever brings up old arguments into a *new* debate.
the past is the past (normally over it far sooner than i am)
and no grudges held ,and few if any "old sins" ever thrown back up.
she simply moves on..
the other refreshing thing is, in times when she is extreemly miffed at me,, her treatment of me never changes. i wil still be treated as her *man*.. no cold shoulder at all,
same amount of attention to what i eat,wear,etc,, and ,converse normally ,
and all the other things in a married life.A stranger would never know she is mad at the moment with me..lol as she confines it completey to whatever topic we had a tiff about.
i'm not nearly as good at confining my emotions to "whatever" singular topic that caused
the tiff.. so in that ,she amazes me.
now there is the whole extreemly(is there a stronger word than extreem?lol) stubborn side, her way is the *only* right way of course!
, but we are all perfect here right? lol
anyway this all may not fit a RW stereotype often portrayed here.
but it is my reality.(and seems like many others)
Actually she's in Ukraine now visiting family (hence me being bored, and more active here recently), calls daily and can't wait to get back "home" where things arent so expensive.
(now there's a twist in the ecomomies huh?)
but that brings up a topic /addendum for this thread.
I trust my wife completely , always have.
she has never given me any reason not to.
This venture doees take a certain mindset ,
i certain level of true self confidence in both parties..
as a long distance relationship, when just starting.. often withers from jealousy or mistrust
Trust hasnt had time to be earned ,
so initially you must be self confident enough to yes "know your value.."
and also not be completely devasted to your soul,
if things go sideways,,with someone you honestly simply cant know well yet.
a "whatever will be will be " mentality is a really tough road for many men emotionally ,
even slightly controlling jealouse types, on either side, will be sorely tested..
now AFTER an established relationship. its quite likely your spouse will travel to the home country , and that trust will still be paramount.
this isnt much different than any marriage of course, as trust is always a key..,
but your spouse being half way around the world for both the man and the woman,,
could bring up plenty of issues if they are not self confident and a lot of trust built into the foundation of thier relationship?
guys who would dwell on *what she is doing *
(or women dwelling on *where thier man is*,,what he is up to*
while shes away)
are not personality types that will have much luck in this?
an insecure person is going to go crazy.
as even in thier new country, most RW are going to get some serious attention.
they have an accent ,different/exotic sounding looking, they typically dress a bit better or more feminine /sexy. a cultural thing.
and honestly to many guys, just simply a bit more interesteing, for no other reason
than they are not from "here" ,so an easy way to strike up a conversation..
(no different than a aussie guy coming to the states women will find him interesting from the accent alone)
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KenC, If Lena reads this you'll regret some of these "trifectas" you've got going on. She may know someone who can fix the race :-X
After reading this thread yesterday, I decided I would wear my "outside clothes" inside all day (I work from my home office). She fussed and fumed and gave me grief about it all day but I didn't relent. I might even do it again tomorrow!
Ronnie, you probably know too little RW, or RW of some particular type, with damaged DNA. :) I cannot believe that so many women could be so ill mannered as you write.
Lily,
I think I dated way too many, but now that I think back they were mostly Ukrainians or Russians living in Ukraine. If there is one slight difference between RW and UW, this might be it. Ukrainians have been made to feel inferior by Russian jokes about them, etc. And, of course Holodomor...to Ukrainians it seems it was yesterday just like the Muslim talk about the crusades like it just happened yesterday. It is no wonder Ukrainians now want total independence from Russia.
Anyway, I think it's not just UW or RW, my AW wives..yes both of them.... never apologized or admitted to a mistake. But I won't give up hope. I think I'll buy a bottle of champagne and put a label on it.."to be opened in the event of a certain occasion" and let my wife guess what that occasion might be. Then when that day should come that she says, "I'm sorry" (I'll take it in any language), I'll shout Hallelujah and pop the stopper!
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The topic of not apologizing or no communication pops up so often but at the same time is so strange to me because i never had any of such problems with my husband or really in life. Most of the time I shop by myself and those times when we are together I go my way and he goes his way and we meet later at the check out. What's the problem? Is it so hard to say: "Honey, let's meet here in 25 min." or "I'll be right there and will be back in 10 min"... Of course i will always let my husband know where I am and he will do the same. It seems to me, maybe it's not a RW thing, but just depends on the character and how confident she feels about herself, her man and their relationship. What's up with these 'biting' remarks, silence treatments or whatever? It is as foreign to me as for you, dear men. If i am wrong I would be the one to run and apologize right then and there or in about 15 min or so... ;)
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Here are some important questions for me:
Are you man enough to know exactly what you want, who you want and what kind of woman you want?
Are you man enough to not give up your principles and values when in a very difficult situation, particularly when you are facing a gorgeous woman?
Are you man enough to regularly provide for your future family and have good savings in case of a rainy day?
Are you man enough to do what is right, not what you or your woman wants?
Are you man enough to solve any problem by respectfully, openly and honestly talking with your woman instead of waiting or not addressing it all?
Are you man enough to keep lifting your bar constantly in everything you do and succeed?
Are you man enough to plant a tree, have a good house and raise a son? ;)
Are you man enough to be honest to yourself?
Are you man enough to sacrifice big part of your interests for the time with your wife and kids?
Are you man enough to exercise regularly?
Are you man enough to raise a child who is not your own, as your own?
Are you man enough to apologize yourself before a woman or anybody else, or your child?
Are you man enough to keep the passionate fire in the relationship alive? ;)
.............................
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The topic of not apologizing or no communication pops up so often but at the same time is so strange to me because i never had any of such problems with my husband or really in life. Most of the time I shop by myself and those times when we are together I go my way and he goes his way and we meet later at the check out. What's the problem? Is it so hard to say: "Honey, let's meet here in 25 min." or "I'll be right there and will be back in 10 min"... Of course i will always let my husband know where I am and he will do the same. It seems to me, maybe it's not a RW thing, but just depends on the character and how confident she feels about herself, her man and their relationship. What's up with these 'biting' remarks, silence treatments or whatever? It is as foreign to me as for you, dear men. If i am wrong I would be the one to run and apologize right then and there or in about 15 min or so... ;)
My thoughts exactly while reading this thread. My ex and I had exactly this same arrangement. She knew I didn't want to hang out in Macy's for 2 hours, so I'd go one direction and she'd go the other and we'd meet up later. It worked out great.
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It seems to me, maybe it's not a RW thing, but just depends on the character and how confident she feels about herself, her man and their relationship.
Anastassia, I think you may be on to something here. In the first year of our marriage I recall writing about some of these characteristics in my wife. Her sensitivities regarding fault & blame were much more acute in those days. I remember an incident where I came home and mentioned that I noticed a rip in one of the window screens, and that I would need to fix it on the weekend. I was somewhat shocked by her retort of "It is not my fault! I did not rip the screen. Are you trying to blame me?" :o I came to understand that because my comment did not include any acceptance of blame, she expected the SHE was being blamed, by default. IIRC this incident happened maybe 1 month after we were married, the fourth month for her in the US. Over the first year this behavior subsided to the point of non-existence and it has never been an issue since. At the time I had chalked it up to her Soviet upbringing and the detrimental effects of accepting blame and being caught having made a mistake under the Soviet system, but perhaps it boils down to something more simple, as your statement suggests and it was merely a lack of confidence in herself and her decision to marry a foreign man at the time. Thinking back, there does seem to be a direct relation between her behavior and her self confidence / confidence in the choices she'd made.
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It all boils down to confidence in yourself, common sense, lack of insecurities, and most of all trust in you and knowing that you would never blame or hurt her feelings. Even when it seems like it one should first ask and clarify what the other meant, and most often than not they didn't mean to hurt you, it is you who understood it this way. That's when communication is crucial. Hurry to clarify things instead of being hurt first.
I remember when I was with Lance, he was sometimes a funny boyish guy, famous American 'toilet' jokes as i call them ( I hate them >:( ) were flying out pretty often and also he just liked to 'scare' me, in the dark or from the corner, he loved seeing me startling. Well, i was very mad and told him not to do that ever again, he stopped. But then a little later when i was pregnant 7 or 8 months, with a huge belly, i was going up the stairs to my bedroom at night, there was no light and he scared me to death again! I thought my labor would start right then and there, I felt so bad that i started just literally crying saying that he didn't love me that much if he could even think about doing such a cruel thing... :o. :'(..... :(..
What can I say now? Insensitive behaviour on his part and me overreacting too.... These are little things that i can think of like negative with Lance, everything else was pretty much really good. ;)
But with Tim right now, it is heaven! He is a very sensitive man, he kisses my hands, covers me with the blanket and treats me like a little queen, and it seems like he enjoys the process itself. He always says: "If you want to be happy, make your woman first of all happy". And I am sure my love and affection returns back to him seven fold. ;)
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OK, we have had some fun here, but the thread is getting a little off track here and I would like to nudge it back to the subject it was intended to address. What type of men should not look to the fsu for a wife?
Up thread, Catz had posted:
The following are all intertwined but here are a few things that will paint a big red target on your forehead:
- Weak personality type
- Lack of self confidence
- Submissiveness
- Indecisiveness
- Prone to depression or mood problems
- Lack of patience
This is a good start but can we add to the list?
There is one type of man I would like to identify here that is not covered on this list. The over confident man. The type that knows everything and refuses to listen to advice from those who have experience. I remember one guy in particular from years ago named Wayne. He debated endlessly that he knew what he was doing and that he possessed the ability to make good snap judgements. His over confidence blinded him from the obvious potential problems. Needless to say his quest turned into a disaster. His quick decisions led him into a half baked relationship and when the relationship faced an obstacle, he was also quick to give the girl the boot.
In a way this over confident man is as blind as the weak men Catz described. Both are not in touch with reality. One thinks he "knows" the reality and the other "hopes" his reality will prevail, but both live in their own little world. Ironically, both types of men are usually in a hurry to start their dream life with their RW.
KenC
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Nastya said
Are you man enough to know exactly what you want, who you want and what kind of woman you want?
yes,brunnette,, i dont prefer blondes..
(joking joking i know you meant more serious things )
Are you man enough to not give up your principles and values when in a very difficult situation, particularly when you are facing a gorgeous woman?
yes,absolutely no problem,
but i'll give up my virtue on the first date , to the right girl :D
Are you man enough to regularly provide for your future family and have good savings in case of a rainy day?yes
Are you man enough to do what is right, not what you or your woman wants?
yes, but that is often viewed as a *weakeness* by more than a few RW.
many view things that a (business) man needs to be ruthless or he will get knowhere
Are you man enough to solve any problem by respectfully, openly and honestly talking with your woman instead of waiting or not addressing it all?
yes.i'm actually very good at that,,,
but unfortuantly i'll sometimes reflect back immaturity, if its shown to me
Are you man enough to keep lifting your bar constantly in everything you do and succeed?
i naturally do so,,so the answer is yes..
but success is relative, if i am providing for my family well,that is success,
i am the type of person always moving forward.
however expecting the bar to be raised *significantly* ,and *constantly* , is unfair.
and i had a realtionship within someone in the past who was like that,
it is not for me.
i am no beast of burden that will happily toil endlessly for even greater success for someone else, they have a good mind, two hands ,two feet, if what i have accomplished and the rate or pace i am accomplshing it at , is not enough for them ,then they should use thier own hands to accomplish thier own goals or to work together towards the family ones.
Are you man enough to plant a tree, have a good house and raise a son?
lol yes i've done/still doing that
Are you man enough to be honest to yourself?
brutally honest, and with others
Are you man enough to sacrifice big part of your interests for the time with your wife and kids?
yes,(this i certainly live)
but that comes with a caveat.i will make huge sacrifices,but i do expect my family recogonize i have hobbies and interests as well. It is afterall my family, and I have the same right to *some* personal time for such things as they enjoy..
I do not view the role of *family man* to be a *completely* self sacrificial subserveant position,with my only happiness coming from providing for others.
I did not sign up to be merely mobnk, servant /provider,
i do not expect my wife..to be that..
i wouldn't think she would expect it from me .
i do have a lot of friends that marred women who treat them this way.
Are you man enough to exercise regularly?
LOL! i am
but i dont hit the gym often...
I'm far too active to really need to..a lot exercise comes from what i do,,what i enjoy,,
but yes if needed, i woud hit the gym and be dedicated to it, i owe it to myself ,
my wife, and my kids to take care of my health.
Are you man enough to raise a child who is not your own, as your own?
absolutley!! and enjoy it..
.. but in my experience many RW have a difficult time with this,,it is a challenge for many of them , if it is not thier child
Are you man enough to apologize yourself before a woman or anybody else, or your child? absolutely no problem
Are you man enough to keep the passionate fire in the relationship alive?
yes! ;)
Anastasia good questions,,
and a good example of the type of probing questions that both the men and women should be asking each other in thier communications-
wether in person, on the phone or email..
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hahaha, AJ, i didn't really expect anybody to actually answer those, but that's cool! I totally agree with lots of things you wrote except that little one thing - about virtue on the first date. ;D Other than that you are goooood! ;D
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I'd like to try to keep the topic on track and at the same time address something AA said about going shopping and agreeing to meet up at a certain time and place.
First point is..what would a MAN want with roaming through the mall by himself? He's there usually only at her request! Which usually only happens when she wants punish to him for something but can't find the waterboard.
Second point...
Not all women are as reasonable as AA. And, yes I know that's an understatement. Case in point (and bringing it back to topic): After allowing a UW to drag me all over the Odessa burbs one day while she interviewed for a second job, the next day when she wanted to subject me to the same misery. I said, I've got some things to attend to so lets meet at a certain place and time, whenever you think your interviews will be done.
She didn't want to do it. Wanted instead to replay the previous day. Now, I'm pretty a understanding guy and don't want to unduly impose demands on other people's time and energy, but at the same time I expect others to be at least as considerate. After a very short discussion I finally just said, "when and where do you want to meet?" We were standing on the sidewalk at the time and she just snarled, "Ne Znayu!", whirled around and walked off. In the 90 seconds or so that it took for her to disappear from view, I debated what the future with this woman would be like if I followed her.
I determined to not go there. Instead, I returned to my apartment and made arrangements to leave for Dnepropetrovsk. The lady doctor called me repeatly over the next 24 hours, and I'll be honest, had she apologized or even suggested she maybe shouldn't have behaved the way she did, she might have become my wife. But, she didn't. And I've net regretted for a second having stuck with my decision to not put up with stuff I knew would only be the tip of a destructive iceberg.
So this was not a woman who had any reason to be insecure or lack self confidence. She was a doctor after all and despite the low pay, they still are revered in Ukraine as in all other countries.
I agree with Jet, that it had to be from Soviet mentality where you never ever admit you did something that can be viewed as wrong. The standard procedure in those days was to deny, deny, deny even if the gun in your hand is still smoking. Younger women like LenaC and AA may not have been infected with that old mentality.
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AA, Your list of questions was interesting. Have you got a list for the woman? Seems to me the last question has more to do with the woman than the man...(you see, I sometimes listen to Dr. Laura :-[)
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- What would a MAN want with roaming through the mall by himself?
- DVDs, CDs, computers, laptops, computer games and other gadgets....
There will be lots of same things on the list for a woman. In fact i can't think of anything that would be really different for a woman. I have done all of those things except raising somebody's child. It seems to me I won't be able to do that. :-\
The last thing I mentioned about keeping the passion alive - is for both! I mean a man should be the initiator and his woman should reciprocate. (http://bestsmileys.com/kissing1/21.gif) (http://bestsmileys.com/kissing1/17.gif)
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What would I do with this shopping thing?
I would search for a terrace or a coffe, I would sit there and start reading the newspaper or a book and I would tell her we would meet there at agreed time. If there is a delay of more than half hour I would leave to do my things. It is not the first time I have done it and I don´t believe it would be my last.
I hope my English hasn´t disimproved with the time :wallbash:
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I'd be interested in what some of the other ladies think about this.
vwrw, mischief, pitbull, Lily?
What kind of men have you come across that you feel should have not attempted to find a FSUW?
Any similar traits?
Things about them that made you wonder what was wrong with them?
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With VWRW still on a learners permit if she goes shopping I am there too, unless I do a drop and pickup which we do some. I can enjoy wandering around the mall and bookstores and electronics stores are two of my favorites. The sporting goods store may appeal to some and I can spend some time in the men's dept.
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VWRW and I talked about it last night and I just asked again. She doesn't think that there is any particular type that should not be doing it. Women are very different and each has her own preference.
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It does not matter if an AW or RW. Drop off at mall and meet me back at Home Depot, Lowes, Best Buy, or any place with a tool section or HDTVs. Sometimes I think I would rather look at 3 types of dirt for my garden then hit a mall.
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The man should be the initiator. Who says? Where does that idea come from? Interesting that a woman would think a man should be denied that treat.
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VWRW and I talked about it last night and I just asked again. She doesn't think that there is any particular type that should not be doing it. Women are very different and each has her own preference.
I tend to think there is truth in that comment. But not being an RW or W of any kind or even someone who could speak for them, how could we not agree? Certainly we have seen with our own eyes a wide variety of men who are successful with their RW/WM marriages.
I also want to take exception to an item on the list concening a man's income and savings. There are some who have savings or investments due to inheritance and/or works in the family business that he did nothing to build. Does that make him a man? Desirable maybe to some women, but a man?
Many great men, even famously great men, have ended up at, or near poverty at death. Were these not men enough for any woman?
The fire of adversity tempers a marriage and welds the joint. Without facing and overcoming adversity together, a marriage remains still loosely bound.
A real man has the confidence and the grit to try and fail and bounce right back. His wife should be of the same character - if not, she cannot be considered his proper companion.
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Ronnie,
Lena was sitting here when I read your post so I asked her what kind of man should not go to Russia to look for a woman?
Her answer is; "Men that go to Russia to solve their problems with women."
Outa the mouths of babes. 8)
KenC
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I'd be interested in what some of the other ladies think about this.
vwrw, mischief, pitbull, Lily?
What kind of men have you come across that you feel should have not attempted to find a FSUW?
Any similar traits?
Things about them that made you wonder what was wrong with them?
Catzenmouse, typization of people might be a funny thing to read, but I don't think I ever tried to figure a certain kind of men with some common traits. The WM that I came across are different and individual. Probably every WM deserves a woman, not just a FSUW, but just a woman. Many of them, unfortunately, will live their lifes alone, as I could not figure out a woman who could be attracted to them.
However, there is probably one trait that could be wrong with some of them - some are just not interesting people to be with. But it is not about looking for FSUW, it is for looking for a woman generally, irrespective of nationality. FSUW are just not that special kind of female creatures, in the essence. Laws of attractivity are universal.
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Ronnie,
Lena was sitting here when I read your post so I asked her what kind of man should not go to Russia to look for a woman?
Her answer is; "Men that go to Russia to solve their problems with women."
Outa the mouths of babes. 8)
KenC
I'm not sure exactly what Lena meant but I assume she's saying if you didn't like AW you won't find an answer with RW? If so, who could not agree? I think it should be obvious that RW are at least as but probably more difficult to deal with. None of the agency hype is really accurate.
But, if the man's problem is not being a able to find the most compatible partner, then there's no reason that problem can't be solved through an international search. In which case Lena would not be 100 per cent correct, right? (Sorry Lena :D)
I don't think that most men look abroad for a wife for any different reasons than do women. It insults us all to promote the notion that international marriages are born of desperation or anti-social personalities.
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Ronnie,
I know she meant that if you have problems with developing a relationship with women, don't go to Russia to solve them.
KenC
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She didn't want to do it. Wanted instead to replay the previous day. Now, I'm pretty a understanding guy and don't want to unduly impose demands on other people's time and energy, but at the same time I expect others to be at least as considerate. After a very short discussion I finally just said, "when and where do you want to meet?" We were standing on the sidewalk at the time and she just snarled, "Ne Znayu!", whirled around and walked off. In the 90 seconds or so that it took for her to disappear from view, I debated what the future with this woman would be like if I followed her.
I determined to not go there. Instead, I returned to my apartment and made arrangements to leave for Dnepropetrovsk. The lady doctor called me repeatly over the next 24 hours, and I'll be honest, had she apologized or even suggested she maybe shouldn't have behaved the way she did, she might have become my wife. But, she didn't. And I've net regretted for a second having stuck with my decision to not put up with stuff I knew would only be the tip of a destructive iceberg.
Kudos to you.
One of the easiest mistakes in this endeavor is not to fold when it's time to fold. Ya gotta know when to fold 'em.
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One of the easiest mistakes in this endeavor is not to fold when it's time to fold. Ya gotta know when to fold 'em.
Moose make good analogiya!
Maybe now he pull rabbit out of hat! :)
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Nastya,
glad i passed ;)
and i was taking the test tongue and cheek,,
so don't take all of my answers completely literally..lol
sorry for the off-topic,,
but i do have a question for you?
in your thoughts- why is it that RW (i dislike generalities,,but this one seems accurate)
have a difficult time genuinely raising a child that isnt thiers?
they often seem to have some inner conflict..about this issue.
Even if they really care for the the child.
Western men are very good at this in *general*..
(for example my father was ...with my step-brother)
lily said
some are just not interesting people to be with. But it is not about looking for FSUW, it is for looking for a woman generally, irrespective of nationality. FSUW are just not that special kind of female creatures, in the essence. Laws of attractivity are universal.
lily..
thats funny, years ago on these boards i used to often tell men *asking how's*,
that the very best way to attract a RW, was to simply be an interesting man..in"general"
because if he was ,,then he would be somewhat in demand locally.,and certainly so in the FSU.i suggested taking up various interests or hobbies,,,joining what clubs interested them,study something interesting,, etc etc..
anything to get the butt off the couch and do some self development spiritually, physically, mentally ,etc.
my basic advice was, to forget all the
"RW like this " or "RW are like that"
if they really wanted the quickest and most effective way to improve your chances with RW ( actually any woman , as RW wernt from another planet afterall;) )
to improve yourself, into someone that would generally be considered "interesting" to anyone. It might not be the easiet way,,but the most likely to succeed..
it was kind of ironic advise actually!!
because in the US,, i was in a position/job that many AW found me quite *interesting*,
soley by my background and profession, before ever finding out anything personality or character wise. Yet i traveled to the FSU,, where not a single RW would have any clue,
and not really care , about any of the stuff i did, that would easily draw interest here.LOL
so i was on my own, simply character ,personality..
and eshwed my own advice to be more "interesting"person, by leaving a location or region, i could somewhat easily capatilize on it.
There are times ,i have done some really silly things..lol
:cluebat:
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Ronnie,
I know she meant that if you have problems with developing a relationship with women, don't go to Russia to solve them.
KenC
Every time I see someone post "I'm done with AW, they're all ________" I think to myself Hey buddy, did you ever consider the possibility that it ain't all the AW and maybe instead it's you? In that light, I completely agree with Lena. If a man can't take ownership of his shortcomings and would rather project them onto others, a change of geography isn't going to do anything to help him, or the women he meets.
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I also want to take exception to an item on the list concening a man's income and savings. There are some who have savings or investments due to inheritance and/or works in the family business that he did nothing to build. Does that make him a man? Desirable maybe to some women, but a man?
Many great men, even famously great men, have ended up at, or near poverty at death. Were these not men enough for any woman?
The fire of adversity tempers a marriage and welds the joint. Without facing and overcoming adversity together, a marriage remains still loosely bound.
A real man has the confidence and the grit to try and fail and bounce right back. His wife should be of the same character - if not, she cannot be considered his proper companion.
I took this point a little differently. ie: one should be able to be financially responsible. And I do think this is an important point, I have seen several occasions where this played out very very badly. Guys who got caught up in the adventure and didn't really research the ongoing post-engagement costs involved. This is totally different from "the fire of adversity" you spoke of, and IMHO is more akin to reckless endangerment because they didn't have the self discipline to get their own lives in order before forging ahead and destroying someone else's.
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Every time I see someone post "I'm done with AW, they're all ________" I think to myself Hey buddy, did you ever consider the possibility that it ain't all the AW and maybe instead it's you? In that light, I completely agree with Lena. If a man can't take ownership of his shortcomings and would rather project them onto others, a change of geography isn't going to do anything to help him, or the women he meets.
Good point! Anyone who is considering this better turn their eyes and thoughts inward and take care of any outstanding baggage.
A geographical fix does not work for any of the problems in a person's life be it job, money, friends, or relationships. The problem will always be right there wherever they are.
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Every time I see someone post "I'm done with AW, they're all ________" I think to myself Hey buddy, did you ever consider the possibility that it ain't all the AW and maybe instead it's you? In that light, I completely agree with Lena. If a man can't take ownership of his shortcomings and would rather project them onto others, a change of geography isn't going to do anything to help him, or the women he meets.
Jet, I agree with your post.
What do you think about a guy who says -“I am ready to travel a half of world to avoid communication with AW and the crap they can say about my personality.”?
Does he project his shortcomings onto others? Would the change of geography help him?
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What do you think about a guy who says -“I am ready to travel a half of world to avoid communication with AW and the crap they can say about my personality.”?
vwrw,
I've never been to the FSU, but as someone who has "traveled half the world" and dated women from 4 different continents I can honestly say if your personality sucks in America it most likely sucks in most of the rest of the known world... Pardon my French.
This thread has some of the most reasonable statements I've seen on the web regarding WM/RW relationships. Ronnie and some of the other people honestly sound like sane educated people. The Web is replete with with AM men swearing that all AW are terrible spouses and that RW are a million times better. Again I've never been to the FSU, but I've been to places like South America and sub Saharan Africa. I've seen some bright spots in regards to wife material, but I've also seen some problems. I've never been anywhere that is a quick fix for someone with a terrible personality. Maybe there's something in the water in the FSU that would debunk my theory... Although I doubt it.
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Catzenmouse, typization of people might be a funny thing to read, but I don't think I ever tried to figure a certain kind of men with some common traits. The WM that I came across are different and individual. Probably every WM deserves a woman, not just a FSUW, but just a woman. Many of them, unfortunately, will live their lifes alone, as I could not figure out a woman who could be attracted to them.
However, there is probably one trait that could be wrong with some of them - some are just not interesting people to be with. But it is not about looking for FSUW, it is for looking for a woman generally, irrespective of nationality. FSUW are just not that special kind of female creatures, in the essence. Laws of attractivity are universal.
Lily,
I agree with your statement 100%. I was comparing the services of a number of agencies and at one of them they showed me a database of profiles that they use to market WM to RW. A lot of what I saw was atrocious. Frankly I felt like calling up the US State Department and asking them to regulate what AM could put up on websites frequented by foreigners. It was the sort of reaction I had when I saw the Jerry Springer Show on television in Western Europe. I was mortified that Americans were exporting that kind of garbage to foreign markets. Foreigners just sat around and laughed themselves to tears as we made complete fools of ourselves.
On one site I saw numerous web cam images used as profile pictures. I mean if you saw the beautiful studio portraits of the women on the site and compared it with the terrible garbage the AM toss up on the web you would be hard pressed to tell who came from a vibrant free market economy and who came from an emerging market dealing with the hangover of years of communist rule. Numerous AM used web cam images, took pictures in Tshirts and/or shorts, were out of shape, were just flat out old (and looking for 20 somethings), etc. etc.
...disastrous behavior that doesn't work anywhere. AW don't go for it, and I have no reason to think any self respecting RW would go for it either... now scam artists... maybe.
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On one site I saw numerous web cam images used as profile pictures. I mean if you saw the beautiful studio portraits of the women on the site and compared it with the terrible garbage the AM toss up on the web you would be hard pressed to tell who came from a vibrant free market economy and who came from an emerging market dealing with the hangover of years of communist rule. Numerous AM used web cam images, took pictures in Tshirts and/or shorts, were out of shape, were just flat out old (and looking for 20 somethings), etc. etc.
...disastrous behavior that doesn't work anywhere. AW don't go for it, and I have no reason to think any self respecting RW would go for it either... now scam artists... maybe.
[/quote]
the irony is
those are the exact same type of guys who complain about AW being too old,too out of shape,too boring or don't know how to dress.
Normal RW must laugh their asses off when they read and look at some of these profiles. Or the scammers think what easy bait they are getting as these guys are dellusional but also feel entitled. I wonder how many women really tell these guys the brutal truth?
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On one hand I agree with Lily, Jet, Bob and others who assert that man, who receives a low evaluation or who American women find to be not desirable, will not be in great demand in FSU. On the other hand there is example on this forum (you can see it below in blue color) where a man who received the low evaluation of AW traveled in FSU and found a woman there who agreed to marry him and with whom he created a successful marriage (from his words). So, may anyone succeed or only the ones who are successful in American dating?
Reasons that anyone, who can afford traveling, may have success could be the following:
1. Not all FSU women are beauty queens. Some of them are fat. Some of them are ugly. Some of them are stupid. However, they still want to love and be loved and they might close their eyes on many men’s shortcomings.
2. Some FSU women so desperately want a better life for themselves or for their children that they will close their eyes on many shortcomings of men who are ready to provide the better life for them
3. Some women are so afraid of loneliness in old age that they are ready to live with “semi-man” rather than to live alone. I think there are a lot of reasons why an FSU woman could marry a not manly enough man.
It is funny that KenC started this thread about RW not being for everyone. I think he could be an example to prove otherwise/contrary. Here are some parts of the discussion a while back between my Turbo and KenC.
Turbo: I have a feeling if we were able to get a couple of American woman to come here and tell FSU women what they should know about AM it would create the biggest controversy yet.
From KenC: Have you completely fallen off your rocker? Just what I want, an AW telling me what is wrong with me!! I traveled to the other side of the world to avoid that crap and you wanna invite them here? :o :o :o
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It is funny that KenC started this thread about RW not being for everyone. I think he could be an example to prove otherwise. Here are some parts of the discussion a while back between my Turbo and KenC.
Turbo: I have a feeling if we were able to get a couple of American woman to come here and tell FSU women what they should know about AM it would create the biggest controversy yet.
From KenC: Have you completely fallen off your rocker? Just what I want, an AW telling me what is wrong with me!! I traveled to the other side of the world to avoid that crap and you wanna invite them here? :o :o :o
I fail to see the point. ???
My wife tells me what is wrong with me all the time. She says it is because she is my friend and only friends tell the truth. I told her I don't want to be friends anymore. :P
Thomas
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I will skip over the part about "social retards" expecting to find happiness with RW. It will not happen.
What do I like about RW that another man may not like? RW are direct. I love that feature about them because I do not have to keep guessing nor dance around an issue nor walk on eggshells, etc. They expect the man to take the lead; however, if I take the wrong step they do not withdraw and sulk. Most will speak their mind almost immediately. It probably will not be sugar coated, yet you will know exactly what she wants.
RW are not compliant and can be dogmatic. Many men may have trouble with this. Frankly, I find this trait acceptable. It creates some interesting if not fascinating moments - life with them is not boring. They are intelligent, pragmatic people, and a man just needs to keep going even if he becomes frustrated. A RW needs a lot of convincing, usually by action and not words.
Blues Fairy listed some tips on living with a RW:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7581.0
Any man who finds her tips as difficult is not ready for a RW because her tips are not that difficult in my opinion.
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I will skip over the part about "social retards" expecting to find happiness with RW. It will not happen.
Personally I tend to agree with VWRW that "social retards" also have a chance to find happiness. I am not sure how we would define "social retards" or how common they are in this search. Is someone who is shy or quiet a social retard? I have seen some shy and quiet types have good success. Is someone who tries too hard to please his mate a social retard? I see lots of those who have had some degree of success but I think that falls in the category that he is a risk of being walked all over and not that he can not succeed. Is someone mean and nasty a social retard? Those are more likely the ones who we call bad boys that have gals throwing themselves at them right and left. Heck they probably don't need to go to the FSU for a hot women. Personally I can't think of any kind of social retard that could not have a chance of success.
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Social retard
A man who would rather sit home and watch tv than have a conversation. When conversing will only reply to answers. will not initiate conversation or elaborate wh`en giving answers. many people with Aspberger syndrome will be that way. Can be considered boring and the person dealing with them feels alone.
drug abuser or drinker. Can be considered a social retard as he needs those enablers to deal with others.
Men who talk with their "buddies" but can't talk to a woman.
Men who act as though they have never been with a woman, Groping her or trying to get too close too quick. usually not smooth.
Men who have bad hygiene ,dress and manners and cannot figure it out since he is out of the loop in the proper way to behave.
Sat in the middle of 2 guys on a plane once. One stank worse than the other and I had to look straight ahead for 5 hour flight. It was torture. can that be considered socially retarded? I can imagine how difficult these types must be for a woman to be intimate with.
feel free to add more.
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On one hand I agree with Lily, Jet, Bob and others who assert that man, who receives a low evaluation or who American women find to be not desirable, will not be in great demand in FSU. On the other hand there is example on this forum (you can see it below in blue color) where a man who received the low evaluation of AW traveled in FSU and found a woman there who agreed to marry him and with whom he created a successful marriage (from his words). So, may anyone succeed or only the ones who are successful in American dating?
Reasons that anyone, who can afford traveling, may have success could be the following:
1. Not all FSU women are beauty queens. Some of them are fat. Some of them are ugly. Some of them are stupid. However, they still want to love and be loved and they might close their eyes on many men’s shortcomings.
2. Some FSU women so desperately want a better life for themselves or for their children that they will close their eyes on many shortcomings of men who are ready to provide the better life for them
3. Some women are so afraid of loneliness in old age that they are ready to live with “semi-man” rather than to live alone. I think there are a lot of reasons why an FSU woman could marry a not manly enough man.
It is funny that KenC started this thread about RW not being for everyone. I think he could be an example to prove otherwise/contrary. Here are some parts of the discussion a while back between my Turbo and KenC.
Turbo: I have a feeling if we were able to get a couple of American woman to come here and tell FSU women what they should know about AM it would create the biggest controversy yet.
From KenC: Have you completely fallen off your rocker? Just what I want, an AW telling me what is wrong with me!! I traveled to the other side of the world to avoid that crap and you wanna invite them here? :o :o :o
VWRW,
The problem with quoting things out of context, is that you cannot judge the mood of the conversation. Fortunately the author (me) is here to set the record straight. My reply to Turbo was made in total jest. (Note the 3 smiley faces?) I never had a problem dating AW and I always had a full dance card. I didn't seek a RW because I was not having success with AW in any way. In fact, I really never had any idea that RW were any different than AW until after I had met Lena (as substantiated in my T/R) Any comparasons of the differences between AW and RW made by me have been in 20/20 hindsight and through observations after I developed my relationship with Lena.
KenC
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My wife tells me what is wrong with me all the time. She says it is because she is my friend and only friends tell the truth. I told her I don't want to be friends anymore. :P
Thomas
Great line Thomas! Can I borrow it?
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It sorta looks like there's no magic formula for who can and who cannot find happiness with an international marriage. Other than druggies and stinkies and psychos, one can with diligence, find a good match somewhere.
My youngest daughter, the mother of my only grandchildren to date has the personality of an angel (neither her mother or I know where that came from :)) In other respects, she is very much like her dad, especially physically (not good if you're a girl!). She's tall, big-boned with broad shoulders and a square jaw. Did I mention she has the personality of an angel?
She got married 5 years ago to an terrific and bright guy...very tall, narrow shoulders, receding chin and from Argentina orignally. At the wedding reception, the mutual friend who introduced them took great pride in being the one to bring these two unlikely candidates together. He even composed a song and sang it. The title was "Somewhere, there is someone for everyone."
At the same time, my very good-looking older child, was married to a beautiful girl for about two years. After their divorce he dated another beautiful girl who didn't want to ever get married and she meant it. My son is now 35 and still single. Sometimes I feel bad for him. He has no interest in RW BTW and I don't push him in that direction.
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(Note the 3 smiley faces?)
No, I did not note any smiley faces in the post. There were only three shocked ones. That made it difficult to guess that you were kidding.
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VWRW,
All the faces in yellow are "smilies", just with different expressions. Humor is difficult to relay in this medium. I was being very facetious at the time.
KenC
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A financial planner friend of mine just sent me this today...
I did the math on the Paul McCartney-Heather Mills divorce. After 5 years of marriage, he paid her $49 million.
Assuming he banged her every night during their 5 year relationship
(and being married men, we all know THAT doesn't happen), it ends up costing him $26,849 per lay, not counting attorney's fees and court
costs.
On the other hand, Elliot Spitzer's call girl Kristen charges $4,000
an hour. Crazy, right?
But...
Had Paul McCartney employed Kristen for 5 years, he would've paid $7.3 million for an hour of sex every night for 5 years (a savings of
$41+million).
Value-added benefits are: a 22 year old hot babe, no begging, no
coaxing, never a headache, wide open menu, ability to put BOTH legs
around you, no bitching and complaining or "to do" lists. Best of
all, she leaves when you're done, and comes back the next day, ready
for another round. All at 1/7th the cost, with no legal fees.* *
Is it just me, or is it better to rent?
I don't know if this relevant but I once gave up a country club membership because my wife was letting me play golf so seldom :crackthewhip: I figured it was costing me about $500 per round.
Decided it was better to go on a pay-per-play basis. As I said, I don't know if it's relevant :selfharm:
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A financial planner friend of mine just sent me this today...
I don't know if this relevant but I once gave up a country club membership because my wife was letting me play golf so seldom :crackthewhip: I figured it was costing me about $500 per round.
Decided it was better to go on a pay-per-play basis. As I said, I don't know if it's relevant :selfharm:
Great quote Ronnie. I'm a pretty conservative guy. I've never been married... or divorced, no kids, plenty of education, career oriented etc, etc. Basically I've tried everything in my power, besides going to the gym a lot more, to make myself a good potential husband. Well after being in the dating market for over a decade I can honestly say most relationships between men and woman are prostitution. The only difference is prostitution is more honest... and as your colleague pointed out far cheaper. On another thread some people accused me of being too "literal" and "analytical." Well I've worked in the financial services industry and I must say that if we applied the same metrics to our daily lives that we do to our investment strategies we would avoid a lot of the common mistakes.
If you have the time download and check out John McLaughlin's musings about the legalization of prostitution. It was a nice debate. Pat Buchanan weighed in. It was the March 14th episode of The McLaughlin Group. This is the link for the video podcast http://www.fednet.net/mg/MG031408.mp4. The critical question is asked 6:45 into the program if you want to skip the rest.
Now these are just my observations. I am not saying that AW are prostitutes and RW are more genuine or anything like that. My experience in most countries where I've lived is... When the looks quotient of the female increases and the pay disparity between the male and female also increases then the propensity for bull$h-t goes into the stratosphere.
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We seem to spend a lot of time talking about who can't succeed with a RW in various threads.
We often tell blacks, Asians and hispanics they can't. Then they go out and find a nice RW.
We often tell the very young they can't but they do.
We tell those with average incomes they can't. The only FSU woman AM who I have met in this area live on his disability income since he can't work and probably won't ever be able to. I know a number of others who make under the average income happily married to an FSU woman.
Let's see, Mspankey says, drinkers and drug users. Well, first off he could there are no shortage of those in the FSU so he could find a female counterpart and there are no shortage of non drinking women married to RM. I am sure some would marry an AM who drank heavy. Drinking is almost a proof of manliness there anyway.
There was people who don't talk. Heck, half the women RW or AM once they have been married a while do most of their chatting with other women anyway. Men only want to talk about sports, work and things like that. They would much rather talk to another woman about some ache or pain or a friend who is cheating on their mate anyway. That is not going to stop them.
Ronnie, Don't take this seriously but if someone came on here and posted in their introduction that he had given up his country club membership because his wife did not let him play golf often everyone would be telling him he had zero chance with a RW.
I am not saying that every single adult male in America can find a wife in the FSU but there are a lot who can who we say can not.
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We seem to spend a lot of time talking about who can't succeed with a RW in various threads.... I am not saying that every single adult male in America can find a wife in the FSU but there are a lot who can who we say can not.
Jet nailed this earlier in the thread, yet I infer from your posts that you think even Jet’s characterization has a reasonable chance for success. Yes, it is possible that almost any man can find a RW given the large number of RW listed with agencies. However, is it reasonable?
None of the many RW whom I met seemed like the type who would be attracted to a man lacking in social skills. Several spoke critically of western men who had preceded me.
I dated AW for a couple of years following my separation/divorce. AW were plentiful if a man met two requirements:
- show up
- act normal.
So the men striking out with AW of their peer group are not normal in my opinion or do not know how to show up.
Will this differ in Ukraine and Russia? Yes and no. The MOB agency interface eliminates the need to know how to "show up." A man in Russia/Ukraine does not need to chat up and impress an unknown woman at Starbucks, a kiosk, a nightclub, etc. For a fee an agency will arrange a meeting where a man has a RW all to himself for an hour, a dinner, etc. This may give some men, particularly shy men, the confidence to try this endeavor, yet it does not change a non-desperate RW’s preferences of the type of man she hopes to marry.
It takes much courage for a RW to leave her familiar Russian life and move to a strange country with a strange language and culture and with no immediate means for supporting herself. Basically the issue boils down to whether she is: 1) attracted to the man, 2) finds him interesting, and 3) trusts that he will support his family. How many men with some sort of social issue/problem would meet all three of these criteria?
The point of this thread, I suppose, is to not encourage men to think that RW are so desperate that they will fall in love with you regardless of your baggage. Nevertheless, the BCIS does not discriminate other than for some basic income requirements. Any man can give this a try and perhaps he will meet a woman that will think him acceptable if not desirable. The questions remain of what is the likelihood of not wasting his money in the search and whether the marriage will endure.
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We seem to spend a lot of time talking about who can't succeed with a RW in various threads.
We often tell blacks, Asians and hispanics they can't. Then they go out and find a nice RW.
We often tell the very young they can't but they do.
We tell those with average incomes they can't. The only FSU woman AM who I have met in this area live on his disability income since he can't work and probably won't ever be able to. I know a number of others who make under the average income happily married to an FSU woman.
Let's see, Mspankey says, drinkers and drug users. Well, first off he could there are no shortage of those in the FSU so he could find a female counterpart and there are no shortage of non drinking women married to RM. I am sure some would marry an AM who drank heavy. Drinking is almost a proof of manliness there anyway.
There was people who don't talk. Heck, half the women RW or AM once they have been married a while do most of their chatting with other women anyway. Men only want to talk about sports, work and things like that. They would much rather talk to another woman about some ache or pain or a friend who is cheating on their mate anyway. That is not going to stop them.
Ronnie, Don't take this seriously but if someone came on here and posted in their introduction that he had given up his country club membership because his wife did not let him play golf often everyone would be telling him he had zero chance with a RW.
I am not saying that every single adult male in America can find a wife in the FSU but there are a lot who can who we say can not.
Turbo,
It is the same old debate with you. Just because there may be an exception to every rule does not invalidate the rule. Sometimes being the nice guy that you are, your advice misleads others into thinking they have a reasonable chance for success when they really do not. This thread was not started as an effort to exclude anyone, but more so to protect those whom may not be best suited for this pursuit. Maybe you should read some of Maxx's threads where the men you suggest "have a chance" end up with their lives destroyed by women who have taken advantage of their weaknesses.
I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks) What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu? Why shouldn't we warn them? I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance. If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it. But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
KenC
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Jet nailed this earlier in the thread, yet I infer from your posts that you think even Jet’s characterization has a reasonable chance for success. Yes, it is possible that almost any man can find a RW given the large number of RW listed with agencies. However, is it reasonable?
None of the many RW whom I met seemed like the type who would be attracted to a man lacking in social skills. Several spoke critically of western men who had preceded me.
I dated AW for a couple of years following my separation/divorce. AW were plentiful if a man met two requirements:
- show up
- act normal.
So the men striking out with AW of their peer group are not normal in my opinion or do not know how to show up.
The point of this thread, I suppose, is to not encourage men to think that RW are so desperate that they will fall in love with you regardless of your baggage.
If you're socially retarded you may find a desperate RW willing to marry you. Anything can happen, but I doubt it'll be true love. Key to any good relationship is communication,respect and self value. Desperation,lack of social skills,lack of self respect and value,lack of manners,drug addiction or addiction of any kind along with loads of baggage rarely ends with success.
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I have to admit that I fall under the shy category. Over the years, I have grown to manage my shyness at work and in most social spheres, but dating was harder. I am not the kind of guy who can approach a woman in a supermarket, flirt with her and then ask her out on a date. For me, online dating was a godsend. It allowed me to find women who were looking and ask them out on a date in a way that managed my social anxiety.
Why Russia versus Canada? It was simply a question of numbers. In the small city where I live dominated by mills, single and educated women tend to move away. I did Lavalife and Plentyoffish and found few women with a much greater ratio of men-to-women dating. There were at best a couple dozen women on the sites, and it was difficult to arrange first dates, even when you did hit it off online. I did date a handful of women in a year, seduced a couple, but did not find any compatible matches. Quite often I was not attracted to them. Having done that in my first marriage, I decided not to settle. There was one woman that I like, but she had become a serial dater: she loved first-dates from what I gathered. In my experience, attractive and eligible Canadian women in my city did not really use online dating sites and eligible women who really wanted to find a man did not stay eligible for long.
I even went to an expensive matchmaking agency in my city. I gave them my criteria: attractive, educated and younger than 35. She looked at me and said there is one woman who would fit my criteria. She then went to find her file, sighed and said that she had already found someone. After that, she did not even try to convince me to sign-up with her agency.
Russia was very different. The numbers of women on free Russian dating sites are phenomenal. Even a small Russian city with have hundreds (or thousands) of women with active profiles online. You don't find the same social stigma attached to dating sites as you do in Canada. Russian women, in my experience, were also much more likely to quickly agree to meet a guy on a simple date to check him out. These two factors made it possible for me to meet a large number of women. The simple fact of the matter is that the more women you meet, the more likely you will find the one for you (the same is true for women). I stopped dating when I met my wife. We hit it off immediately and we spent six hours on our first date simply talking. However, if my wife and I had not hit it off, I would simply have lined up another date the next day or the day after. The number of women on the free dating sites, my knowledge of Russian, the ease of getting a woman to agree to meet for at least a coffee, made dating in Russia so much more easier than dating in my small Canadian city. When you meet large numbers of women, eventually you will find one who is compatible.
The simple fact of the matter is that I easily succeeded in Russia finding a beautiful, educated woman with no children who fell for me, something that I did not manage to do in my home city. Perhaps if I had been willing to continue dating for a few years in Canada I would have found someone. Perhaps if I had been a bit less shy it would have made things easier. Perhaps if I had found a job in another city in a few years, I would have been in a city with more eligible women.
Was I lacking in social skills? Well, there are different types of social skills. Yes, I will be the first to admit that I am not the outgoing social butterfly who can easily flirt with any woman. That made dating harder. However, once married, this is no longer a liability. My wife wants a man who will be there for her, and not a "бабник" (a "womanizer"), who has refined social skills but low commitment to one woman. It takes me a while to open up, but when I do I often cannot stop talking. Again, not a good trait for making a great first impression on a first date, but wonderful for a marriage.
Am I man enough for a Russian woman? Well, it depends on which Russian woman. I am man enough for the Russian woman who is my wife, and that is good enough for me 8)
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Misha,
You may have lacked the ability to pick up strange women, but you also have many positive traits too. You knew what you wanted and you took steps to find the woman of your dreams. It takes a real man to identify his own shortcomings and to overcome them. Kudos to you Sir!
KenC
:applaud: :thumbsup:
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Misha,
I don't think that being shy precludes one from being an "adventurer". As Ken said, you were smart enough to take stock in yourself, identify the issues that were giving you difficulty, and employ resourcefulness in finding a "work-around". That is far from the "socially retarded" behavior that Gator spoke of. Two things I think are critically important in this endeavor are self reliance, and the "adventurer" type personality, and they go hand in hand. You obviously possess that, in spite of your shyness. I really don't believe that the "Alpha males" have the market cornered. ;)
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Thank you Ken and Jet. It is important to be objective and analyze one's success (or lack of success) when dating. You have to recognize your weak points and your strong points and understand what are the problems you will face when dating. The challenge is knowing where you can improve and figuring out what works best for you. Fortunately, you don't have to please all women, just one and the challenge is to meet enough women to find the one that you can please and who will please you.
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Two things I think are critically important in this endeavor are self reliance, and the "adventurer" type personality, and they go hand in hand.....I really don't believe that the "Alpha males" have the market cornered. ;)
Agree 100%. In fact RW are attracted to men with this attitude, because RW who would consider moving to a foreign land are also self-reliant and adventurous. They are not dull, boring women.
You have to recognize your weak points and your strong points and understand what are the problems you will face when dating.
That attitude separates you from those men who find 100% of the fault in AW and none in themselves.
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Am I man enough for a Russian woman? Well, it depends on which Russian woman.
Good point, Misha!
The point of this thread, I suppose, is to not encourage men to think that RW are so desperate that they will fall in love with you regardless of your baggage.
It does not seem to me that the above mentioned is the point of this thread. In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen; to reinforce it independently from validity of the claim and to make the claim to be a strong belief through repeated assertion.
In a consequence use the fabricated belief as a confirmation that married RWD’s members are superior ones.
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That attitude separates you from those men who find 100% of the fault in AW and none in themselves.
That is why I never complain about Canadian women. I met a lot of wonderful Canadian women, many of whom I would have married in a heartbeat. Either they were married while I was single, or I was married when they were single, or they were looking for something else, or I was not at the right stage in my life to be with them when were were both single.
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In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen; to reinforce it independently from validity of the claim and to make the claim to be a strong belief through repeated assertion.
In a consequence use the fabricated belief as a confirmation that married RWD’s members are superior ones.
Sorry that you have such a negative outlook on the motivation behind this thread. You could not be futher from the truth however. As I already stated:
I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks) What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu? Why shouldn't we warn them? I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance. If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it. But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
KenC
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In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen....
Of all AM that I know, I would say that only a few have what it takes to be successful with RW. What are the reasons why most would not undertake this venture or would drop out after starting?
- They are not patient enough to mentor a RW while adjusting to America.
- They would not respect the cultural differences and would expect her to behave like an American.
- They are not adventurous enough to undertake the trip.
- They are contented with their choice of AW.
- They do not have the free cash necessary to woo and wed a RW, much less support her RW during her adjustment.
- They are "committed" men - committed that no relationship will go very far.
- They are too set in their ways to adjust to a woman from a foreign culture.
- etc.
VWRW, there is nothing "exclusive" about the club of OMBs. Not their "stunning" good looks, their high intellect, the jingle in their pocket, their fascinating sense of humor, etc.
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Gator,
Good post.
Discussions like the one we are having in this thread is not an attempt to exclude anyone from pursuing a RW. It is more a comparason of what kind of men have been successful and those who have not. That is what RWD is here for: to help guide men through this process. To offer up as examples what our experiences have been. I strongly oppose the idea that we are here to encourage everyone to seek a woman in the fsu as it is not a "one size fits all."
KenC
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Turbo,
It is the same old debate with you. Just because there may be an exception to every rule does not invalidate the rule. Sometimes being the nice guy that you are, your advice misleads others into thinking they have a reasonable chance for success when they really do not. KenC
Rule? Since when are there any rules. Just because one of us says something it does not make it a "rule"
My comments were not meant to encourage or discourage anyone. I think one of the problems with this kind of discussion is that none of the comments are going to discourage anyone which means we all are just blowing hot air.
First place, people won't recognize themselves. How many people are going to read this and think to themself, Oh, I am a social misfit so I had better give up my plans to go to the FSU. If you passed out a small questionnaire on that plane that was mentioned earlier with three health questions. 1. Do you have a history of heart problems? 2. Do you have respiratory problems? 3. Do you have severe BO? Do you think those dudes are going to answer yes?
Second thing they don't care. If to use an extreme example we had an 80 year old who dreamed of a 19 year old bride and we said. Listen up you old geyser it ain't ever going to happen. He would just say KenC is nuts. I have my membership in A-Web and the 19 year olds are writing me like crazy and think I am hot. No one is ever going to read this and say it is not for me.
Let's look at another example. Dan is about as fair and accommodating a guy as you could ever want to find. He shows a lot of wisdom and patience in the way he runs RWD. Would it be fair to say you would almost have to be a social misfit to get banned here. I could go along with that. Yet if you think of those that have been banned most have a RW they are living with, engaged to or married to.
The last thing I will say is that I understand your topic was intended to help people avoid mistakes even though I think it will not deter a single person. There have been some good and interesting thoughts come out in this thread. I do also see the side of it that VWRW does that we are ranking people as those who can and can not do this and casting those who can as better people than those who can not. I have seen lots of people succeed that are in the class of those who can not. I don't think it is our place to judge people and I have always tried to look at all people as equal. I don't look at a movie star, professional athlete, or very rich person as being better than an average person. I don't look at Blacks or Asians or those with menial jobs as been less than the average person. I know it is not your intention but it smacks of that and I do find it a bit distasteful. Of course sometimes I just enjoy playing the devils advocate as well. :D
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Turbo, let's face it, there is only one criteria for pursuing a wife in the FSU and that is that one has access to enough disposable income to finance the search. Just because anyone CAN do it, really doesn't mean anyone SHOULD do it. There are those that head to the FSU that are doing a huge disservice to themselves, their penpals, their countrymen, international relations, and the human species as a whole. CAN they find mutual happiness with a woman from somewhere else across the globe? Maybe... but how much carnage are they going to leave in their wake and what's the statistical probability of success?
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Jet, I can agree there are people who should not do it. One guy on one of my EC tours was a discrace to American men. The guy was the ugliest of ugly Americans who I have ever met overseas and even managed to end up in jail in Moscow one night. Is anything we ever say here going to deter him, no of course not.
I have another friend who really would do himself a favor by hanging up his quest. He keeps going back on AFA tour after AFA tour and throwing money in the hopes of catching a beauty queen. If I told him to hang up the search all I would do was lose a friend. He would be right back on the next tour.
It is just a sad reality that we have to put up with the bad image all those plus the sex tourists and others create. We have to deal with the adverse effect of sensationalized TV exposes about RW ending up being sex slaves. We have to deal with lots of things that just are not going to change. It is just part of the price of admission.
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Rule? Since when are there any rules. Just because one of us says something it does not make it a "rule"
You cannot be so out of touch that you have never been exposed to this common saying. The "rule" is what is typical. No one is making guidelines here, only suggestions of what types of men might have a more difficult time than others.
My comments were not meant to encourage or discourage anyone.
Oh really? Is that why you always give the opinion that anyone can do this? No matter what their personal circumstances?
I think one of the problems with this kind of discussion is that none of the comments are going to discourage anyone which means we all are just blowing hot air.
Again, no one is trying to discourage anyone of anything. We are just trying to be helpful and give an accurate account of what these men might face.
First place, people won't recognize themselves. How many people are going to read this and think to themself, Oh, I am a social misfit so I had better give up my plans to go to the FSU. If you passed out a small questionnaire on that plane that was mentioned earlier with three health questions. 1. Do you have a history of heart problems? 2. Do you have respiratory problems? 3. Do you have severe BO? Do you think those dudes are going to answer yes?
Second thing they don't care. If to use an extreme example we had an 80 year old who dreamed of a 19 year old bride and we said. Listen up you old geyser it ain't ever going to happen. He would just say KenC is nuts. I have my membership in A-Web and the 19 year olds are writing me like crazy and think I am hot. No one is ever going to read this and say it is not for me.
With such a dismal outlook on the ability of the this forum to help others, maybe you should leave? I disagree with your outlook very strongly.
Let's look at another example. Dan is about as fair and accommodating a guy as you could ever want to find. He shows a lot of wisdom and patience in the way he runs RWD. Would it be fair to say you would almost have to be a social misfit to get banned here. I could go along with that. Yet if you think of those that have been banned most have a RW they are living with, engaged to or married to.
The small number of posters that have been banned compared to the overall membership kind of proves that this is not a significant problem.
The last thing I will say is that I understand your topic was intended to help people avoid mistakes even though I think it will not deter a single person. There have been some good and interesting thoughts come out in this thread. I do also see the side of it that VWRW does that we are ranking people as those who can and can not do this and casting those who can as better people than those who can not. I have seen lots of people succeed that are in the class of those who can not. I don't think it is our place to judge people and I have always tried to look at all people as equal. I don't look at a movie star, professional athlete, or very rich person as being better than an average person.
I think you are as wrong as VWRW on this subject. I have asked you some questions up thread that you refuse to address.
I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks) What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu? Why shouldn't we warn them? I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance. If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it. But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
I don't look at Blacks or Asians or those with menial jobs as been less than the average person. I know it is not your intention but it smacks of that and I do find it a bit distasteful. Of course sometimes I just enjoy playing the devils advocate as well. :D
What truly smacks of distastful is that you seemingly to be lumping Asians and Blacks with those who have menial jobs! If I were Black or Asian, I would be highly insulted by your comment.
KenC
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Great line Thomas! Can I borrow it?
Use and abuse it Ronnie. ;D
Thanks,
Thomas
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Kenc,
This is another good topic you have begun. And, I think it's quite important for men seeking
an FSUW to try and understand what it takes. There is no magical formula to go through this
process, but it's a process that perhaps some men would choose to give up on rather than
stay the course. If a man is controlling, forget it. If he is an extremely jealous person,
forget it. If he allows himself to be controlled, forget it. If a man cannot trust his lady,
forget it.
I know this guy that went through this process. He never got past the
writing stage. And there's something about him that I cannot identify that told me he would
never make it. What stands out to me is that he seems like a controlling person. I think
that sometimes it's possible to know a man and know if he will succeed in this process.
On the other hand, I know another guy who I would not predict as being able to go
through this process and he has been married to an FSUW for about 15 years.
This process is not about the man being stunning and charming, etc. I mean, just look at
Kenc (Sorry, I couldn't resist). It has to do with both the man and the woman. We
debate about different styles and some styles works for some while it doesn't for
other couples. But, the bottom line is going the FSUW route requires something
inside to succeed more than dating a western woman. The good side is the rewards
are so far up there that words cannot describe how it feels to find a wonderful
FSUW.
Mark
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Mark,
Glad you don't think this all a waste of our time as some here do! Being married to a RW is kind of like a roller coaster, the highest highs, the lowest lows and watch out for those left turns! But man o man, what a ride! :luv:
Very exhilarating, but scares the sh!t out of you.
The again, some don't like roller coasters.
KenC
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You cannot be so out of touch that you have never been exposed to this common saying. The "rule" is what is typical. No one is making guidelines here, only suggestions of what types of men might have a more difficult time than others.
No, to be honest I have never heard that "common" saying that a rule is what is typical. This is how a dictionary defines a rule.
1. Governing power or its possession or use
2. a. An authoritative, prescribed direction for conduct, especially one of the regulations governing procedure in a legislative body or a regulation observed by the players in a game, sport, or contest. b. The body of regulations.
Is that why you always give the opinion that anyone can do this? No matter what their personal circumstances?
I give the opinion that anyone can do this because I think for the most part it is true. That does not mean that I think everyone will do this or everyone will be successful. I just think that some of the guys who face longer odds can succeed if they approach it realistically and with determination. To explain this in more detail I have friends with below average incomes that are happily married to FSU women. I think any man with a lower than average income can succeed. That does not mean to say that every man with a lower than average income will succeed. Even wealthy handsome guys do strike out at this sometimes.
Again, no one is trying to discourage anyone of anything. We are just trying to be helpful and give an accurate account of what these men might face.
I musta missed something somewhere. I did not see any descriptions of what difficulties they would face just the statements about who could not succeed and how RW are difficult to deal with and will not accept them
With such a dismal outlook on the ability of the this forum to help others, maybe you should leave? I disagree with your outlook very strongly.
.
Ken, I have said a million times that RWD is the most wonderful asset any man could have in the search and had RWD existed and I found it much earlier it would have saved me a ton of time, money and disappointment. That does not mean that I think discussions like this do much good. I do think they get people thinking and that is a good thing. I think it does not get the ones thinking that you are aiming at though.
The small number of posters that have been banned compared to the overall membership kind of proves that this is not a significant problem.
Huh!. Either I did not do a good job of wording the point that I was trying to make or you did not do a good job of reading and understanding what I was writing. I was not saying banning people was a problem.
I think you are as wrong as VWRW on this subject. I have asked you some questions up thread that you refuse to address.
KenC
I will go back and reread for any questions I refused to address. I have no hesitation addressing anything but may have missed that. I don't have as much free time for RWD as I used when I was alone and trying to kill time waiting for the visa approval. Perhaps I missed that so I will go back and look
I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks) What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu? Why shouldn't we warn them? I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance. If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it. But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
What truly smacks of distasteful is that you seemingly to be lumping Asians and Blacks with those who have menial jobs! If I were Black or Asian, I would be highly insulted by your comment.
KenC
.
I agree it is far better to try to tell a black man for example what he may face than to sugar coat things. Again if we created the impression that it was totally impossible that too would not be fair.
It was not my intention to lump anyone with anyone. There are a lot of good things and a lot of bad things about this world. One of the bad is that some people look down on others. Russians tend to look down on Ukrainians. Some look down on the Polish. Early in the last century people looked down on the Irish. Some look down on Blacks or Asians or those whose income is less than theirs. I also stated that I always tried to think of all people as equal I don't look at the president of GM as any more important that the janitor at the high school. I have seen people on RWD who do look down on people. I can go back to P/G for example when his gal was called a low classed shop girl and they have been lots of threads painting FSU women with mean jobs as undesirable.
OK, off my soap box and back to try to find out what in the world you think I would have refused to answer.
Just posted and saw your last post Ken. Just for the record I don't think it is a waste of time, there are some good thoughts that have come out. I just don't see it accomplishing what you hoped.
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Turbo,
The saying goes: exceptions prove the rule.
The idea is that the exception to the rule only stands out so much *because* it is an exception. The exception wouldn't be noteworthy if it weren't an exception *to* something, and that something is the rule in question. The exception "proving" the rule is not in any way a scientific or mathematical proof, and is more applicable to subjective questions or observations.
The questions you ignored:
I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks) What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu? Why shouldn't we warn them? I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance. If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it. But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
KenC
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Kenc,
My buddy who has been married to an FSUW for 15 years told me when I was in the
beginning stages that, "You'll find out." I was talking to his wife on the phone and heard
him in the background. Well, he was correct. I found out. And it's not a roller
coaster that stays flat like a highway. But, I really enjoy it. I somehow found a wonderful
lady.
I have personally seen a man try this. He just wasn't the right type to do it. I cannot
define the right type, but I think a lot of it has to do with the efforts of the man. But,
he has to have a good lady too.
Mark
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Ken,
Are FSUW the same as Aw or not?
you're playing fast and loose so to speak don't you think?
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The questions you ignored:
I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks) What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu? Why shouldn't we warn them? I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance. If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it. But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
KenC
Ken, I see nothing wrong with warning people but the guys with BO and all the others mentioned did not come here looking for advice to start this thread. Insted we are trying to define a group of people we think are loosers and have no chance. There is a bit of a difference but yes, there are some good thoughts in this thread.
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Ken, I see nothing wrong with warning people but the guys with BO and all the others mentioned did not come here looking for advice to start this thread. Insted we are trying to define a group of people we think are loosers and have no chance. There is a bit of a difference but yes, there are some good thoughts in this thread.
Turbo,
Who called them losers? You? I don't look at it that way at all. Up thread I posted:
Well, Pike made a point that maybe men with the characteristics that Catz pointed out would be hard pressed to be successful with any kind of woman. Or would he? I have met quite a few very mild mannered AW that would love a "low key" type of man. I have not met that kind of RW yet.
In most cases I think couples seek out their equals in the area of strength. The stronger the woman , the stronger the man she would require and vs versa too. In all the RW I have met (and we have a lot of RW friends) and all the RW in my own family, I have yet to meet a meek and submissive RW.
KenC
Because a man might not have the characteristics that would make him successful with RW doesn't make him a loser. It just indicates that success with a RW would be more difficult.
KenC
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Ken,
Are FSUW the same as Aw or not?
you're playing fast and loose so to speak don't you think?
Turnip truck,
If they were the same, why would anyone go to the fsu?
KenC
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Let us consider a situation where two adults make a decision that they want to be together.
Regardless of what you or I may believe is a 'valid relationship', a couple has been created.
If, you believe that only those participants who are party to that agreement have the best 'information' then only those individuals can make 'rational' decision on whether or not to 'get married'.
What you have proposed is that there is a criteria outside of financial considerations, for a successful relationship between a Am and FSUW. in other areas, and my memory could be wrong on this, you have said:
"Ronnie,
Lena was sitting here when I read your post so I asked her what kind of man should not go to Russia to look for a woman?
Her answer is; "Men that go to Russia to solve their problems with women."
Outa the mouths of babes. Cool
KenC"
"Ronnie,
I know she meant that if you have problems with developing a relationship with women, don't go to Russia to solve them.
KenC"
Implicit in both of these statements is that women from both areas are using the same criteria. Where as I woudl agree that women the world over seek statuts, I am not necessarily cavalier about the effects of environmental factors on reproduction.
What is understood in those two statements is that women from the west value 'x', FSUW must also value 'x' and there fore if you are a man in the west who lacks 'x' and there fore undesirable by ww, you will also be undesireable by fsuw.
Your knowledge of men who have chosen not to marry WW in lieu of FSUW is prima facia evidence of the cultural value of 'differences'. Note that both those quoted statements are from this thread.
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Turniptruck,
First, I think you are being way too analytical and too specific here.
The statements were intended more to address the charateristics of the men and not necessarily compare RW to AW. However, some camparisons are nessesary. The intention was that if a man had a difficult time forming relationships with AW, then he will have an even more difficult time with RW. It is from the perspective that *he* had the problem with AW not the other way around.
I would futher venture to say that even though RW use some similar criteria as AW in their selection process, there are many differences too.
KenC
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When we speak of FSUW, are we considering that we are mostly only exposed to one segment of the FSUW population? i.e. Those seeking foreign husbands?
It has been occurring to me that the FSUW who are not in that segment can be quite different from the stereotype we have painted here. I have seen a good number of (non-seeking) FSUW who were much the antithesis of the characterizations we tend to ascribe to them generally.
I'm persuaded that a woman who would volunteer to leave her homeland, adopt a new language, culture and way of life and work diligently to become a citizen of that new country is not, for the most part, a typical woman from the FSU.
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When we speak of FSUW, are we considering that we are mostly only exposed to one segment of the FSUW population? i.e. Those seeking foreign husbands?
It has been occurring to me that the FSUW who are not in that segment can be quite different from the stereotype we have painted here. I have seen a good number of (non-seeking) FSUW who were much the antithesis of the characterizations we tend to ascribe to them generally.
I'm persuaded that a woman who would volunteer to leave her homeland, adopt a new language, culture and way of life and work diligently to become a citizen of that new country is not, for the most part, a typical woman from the FSU.
I'd agree with that, however, it looks like the number of women who would be willing leave their homelands increases rapidly. I see that on the internet fora. A few of them are looking to foreign countries since they were little kids, having this interest from their parents; some became 'internationalized' during their working life. For some however, the Russian families and friends are the thing that is unthinkable to leave behind, but they could consider it in case they find a loving husband abroad. For others, cultural and linguistic difficulties are the unsurmountable obstacles.
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Misha, good points-
a few things that pop into my mind while reading this thread -
after mishas comments and points brought up..
I personally know quite a few guys going thru this process.
most of them have been at this a long time.
They are extreemly varied in personalities and wealth.
my observations of this small sample group?
1. "generally" the very weatlthy have an easier time attracting more RW, (no surprise)
but seem to have far more difficulties in actually getting to the point of K1 , or K3.
not always ,but normally due to thier own issues ,whatever they may be, and that varies.
2. I do not think many of them percentage wise will succeed.
There is a fairly high percentage that are failing repeatedly,
mostly at thier own undoing, and they continue thier same mistakes.
The most common thing holding the ones back that are struggling,
is unrealistic expectations.
the second most common thing holding some back,
is a controlling or jealouse personality type.
Which also tend to be greedy.
the third big factor seems to be , having zero self control when it comes to an attractive woman, they immediately fall over her,even if she isnt even mildly interested.
do the ones struggling all share all these traits? of course not,
but they most all have one of the 3 deadly sins..
again these guys are completey different in all ways..
but of the ones struggling, almost to a man, share one of those traits.
and for what its worth odds ar every good it is why they needed to look in the first place, and its certainly why they are still looking.
the guys doing reasonably well at this so far.. and i would guess likley to pull it off,,
are no surprises,,
and while as mentioned , they are greatly varied in all aspects ,
they often share some traits as well.
reasonable and very grounded expectations.
and in general have pretty defined ideas on what they want and what they are looking for.
know themselves, and thier strenghts and weaknesses pretty well.
good at self evaluation
not controlling types,,but not pushovers either.
I do think that a VARY wide array of men can be succesful,,
afterall thier exist every personality of RW
but i have simply seen too many with one of the *3 deadly sins*
(i'm joking!! nothing is absolute of course) that just never seem to make it happen, and likely never will.
Oddly enough,
they also seem the most deterimined to continue thier pursuits.despite not having any luck.
I know one guy, quite weathy mid 40's,funny,,a bit outlandish...bordering boorish
and very shallow,a strong outgoing personality type *AA*.
and completely unrealistic,, a mean completely. as well as a bit greedy,and thoughtless-
he will likely only ever succeed in finding a woman to use/abuse him..and badly,
wether here or over there,
and actually has a long track record of that on both sides on the pond already.
To suggest you cant define a "type " of guy that will really struggle at this,,
is silly, as this guy, and anyone like him ,certainly will hav ea hard go of it??
Does that make him less of a person? or make someone that succeeds *better*?
certainly not.
but it does make him less capable at long term relationships.
he simply is not as good at them, or with women in general, they see thru him in a instant..
the *men are created equal* mantra works well within legal struture of a judicial system.
but try some , one on one , with micheal jordon and get back to me..on how well it works in specific arenas though ?
It is a fact some men will be better equiped at relationships. period.
They are more in tune with what the majority of women seek or want emotionally, financially ,phyisically, spiritually.. etc etc.
(some are better at basketball than relationships, others handle both quite well..)
The sooner a man faces and evaluates his own strenghts and weaknesses ,
then proceeds armed with that knowledge accordingly the better his chances are.
This thread seems to me like an attempt to define some common traits in men that play
"soccer" better? or the qualities they generally possess?
it doesnt mean a great soccer player is any better *person*?..
nor
does it mean that all good soccer players share the same personalities,
as they certainly do not.
defining some good traits ,or practice habits,
, does not exclude anyone from playing,or becoming good at , *soccer*..?
just sayin'....
:D
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Ken,
Are FSUW the same as Aw or not?
you're playing fast and loose so to speak don't you think?
Turniptruck,
I think you missed the point completely. Algebra and Calculus, are they the same or not? AW and FSUW share all the gender issues, but with FSUW there are also variables concerning culture, language, distance, and more, adding to the complexity of the equation. If one has trouble with finding "x" in 28 - X = 7 should they ignore that and jump right into Quadratic Functions?
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Turbo,
Who called them losers? You?
Ken, there is a point in most discussions where to continue serves no point except to hear oneself talk. This is also known as beating a dead horse and I sorta think we are there. I am content to not take your topic any more off thrack on these points than I have VWRW and I have both stated our opinion and I have nothing more to add. There are some interesting comments coming out in this thread and that is good.
I'd agree with that, however, it looks like the number of women who would be willing leave their homelands increases rapidly.
Lily, I found that comment interesting since most here feel the opposite? Personally I don't think the pond is fished out and that most of us overestimate the importance of the Russian economy in a womans choice but that is another topic for another thread.
AJ, My two cents worth are that that was a really good post and right on. I particularly liked the part about unrealistic expectations. The whole post was great.
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I think you are as wrong as VWRW on this subject. I have asked you some questions up thread that you refuse to address.
Ken,
The pattern is all too common... "a wife" comes in with a questionable theory/assertion/story/claim and her husband pops up saying, "I agree with my wife because....".
It's the height of ignorance (or arrogance) to think repeated puppy dog statements in support for his wife provides any credibility to her statements.
Anyway... I try to remember there are many genuine people visiting here - and many who are genuinely seeking information with the best of intentions...
So...
Your original question was:
Are there certain types of men or certain personalities of men that should not get involved with this process?
It has long been said here that RW are not for everyone. I have always maintained that men with little or no dating skills should avoid this process as the possibility for them to be eaten by sharks is just too great. Your thoughts?
KenC
My thoughts are, it depends on who the audience is...
For the sake of women meeting the men... hopefully the types who won't be pursuing this are:
- The abusive men,
- The liars,
- The deviates (I mean the really disturbed - and we know they're out there);
- The stingy ones;
- The stinky ones, and;
- The ones that don't REALLY "like women" (i.e. The Women Haters)
For the sake of the men themselves... hopefully the types who won't be pursuing this are:
- Those who have poor dating ability/history at home - because even if you still have "a chance" of success in FSU, you're running a very high risk of failing and losing (financially and emotionally more than is reasonable on any dating adventure;
- Those who can't actually afford it - because it's damn expensive and may put too much pressure on the "new family" if the man doesn't have sufficient income or savings;
- Those with unrealistic expectations - because they could waste thousands of dollar or even a decade before they find something they'll settling for, and I actually think it's a shame to waste 10 years of someones life on a fantasty (again, anything is possible, but is it reasonable?);
- Those who don't have the ability to sustain a marriage with a woman who may very well be "out of his league" - because these women are not stupid and if they feel like they are the ones way out of their league they may find reason to look around. (I know from experience that without confidence and "game" a man in a similar position to me could end up paranoid and envious.) :o
For the sake of us, the other men meeting and marrying FSUW... hopefully the types who won't be pursuing this are:
- Those who give us and our wives a bad name - for WHATEVER reason!
Ultimately almost anyone CAN find a wife to marry him if he pours enough money into his search... Maybe he'll eventually find someone who "meets his criteria"...
I think much of the answer to this question comes down to "what is reasonable"...
What's reasonable for the women to expect and accept? and;
What's reasonable for the men to expect and accept?
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For the sake of women meeting the men... hopefully the types who won't be pursuing this are:
- The stingy ones;
I don't necessarily disagree with the other points, but this one is subjective. What is stingy to one may be a spendthrift to another.
For the sake of the men themselves... hopefully the types who won't be pursuing this are:
- Those who can't actually afford it - because it's damn expensive and may put too much pressure on the "new family" if the man doesn't have sufficient income or savings;
One of our new Russian friends is a Russian woman who married a young man who was teaching English in Russia for a few years. They came back half a year ago. They live in a modest apartment, they have a very used car, she worked from almost day one. He certainly did not have sufficient income or savings. Will it work out? Well, I would say they have as good a chance as anybody else. She loves him and is committed to him. In this case, I would say that money won't be the issue.
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When we speak of FSUW, are we considering that we are mostly only exposed to one segment of the FSUW population? i.e. Those seeking foreign husbands?
It has been occurring to me that the FSUW who are not in that segment can be quite different from the stereotype we have painted here. I have seen a good number of (non-seeking) FSUW who were much the antithesis of the characterizations we tend to ascribe to them generally.
I'm persuaded that a woman who would volunteer to leave her homeland, adopt a new language, culture and way of life and work diligently to become a citizen of that new country is not, for the most part, a typical woman from the FSU.
As you all know, I did not meet my wife on an agency site, and I would concur in that that she does not fit any of the stereotypes painted here or elsewhere.
A few months before meeting me, my wife went to a Russian Orthodox Church to pray for a husband. She asked the help of all the saints in finding a husband. She gave them a list of what she was looking for: kind, smart, well-educated, tall.... All the traits that she asked for, she considers to have found in me. Interesting enough, she did not ask for a rich man (which I am not) nor an extremely attractive man (I could lose a few pounds).
How is she different? The one thing that I have noticed is that unlike some of the women I have seen on other forums (English and Russian), she has never used the term "жадный" (cheap or stingy) and she never had high expectations when it comes to gifts. One of the best gifts that I gave cost a whole $5. We were heading off to have supper to mark our anniversary and my wife decided that we should play a game. We would stop at a local department store and we would each have $5 to buy a gift for the other. As luck would have it, there was a cute watch on sale for $5 and around the face plate it was written "I Love You." She loved the gift.
What was her motivation for leaving Russia? Well, it certainly wasn't for material gain. Rather, she left because she found a man that she wanted as a husband. She fits what Lily wrote: "they could consider it in case they find a loving husband abroad."
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the third big factor seems to be , having zero self control when it comes to an attractive woman, they immediately fall over her,even if she isnt even mildly interested.
And then spend lots of money hoping to succeed in buying her affection. May work in the short term, rarely in the long term
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I don't necessarily disagree with the other points, but this one is subjective. What is stingy to one may be a spendthrift to another.
Stingy is subjective... but as I placed it in the list under "For the Sake of the Women" I guess those defining it should be the women.
If a woman thinks a man is stingy everyone is better off knowing early on:
1. Because he probably can't afford her, and;
2. Because she'll nag the poor bugger to death.
One of our new Russian friends is a Russian woman who married a young man who was teaching English in Russia for a few years. They came back half a year ago. They live in a modest apartment, they have a very used car, she worked from almost day one. He certainly did not have sufficient income or savings. Will it work out? Well, I would say they have as good a chance as anybody else. She loves him and is committed to him. In this case, I would say that money won't be the issue.
He didn't??? How is she here??? How did they marry? Family handouts or stressed credit cards? Maybe a bank heist or two? ;D
Unless he's relying on the folks, or the banks, he must have had enough to get by on...
I still wouldn't be urging anyone to undertake this unless they had sufficient savings or income - even if I tempered my beliefs with knowledge of a couple doing it cheap. I too know a couple on a modest income, but I wouldn't advise others to do it the same way.
I don't think my wife and I have splurged "much", but the costs are not insignificant.
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Kuna, you are right and you are wrong. My impression of this thread was the same as her's. You are correct in that I likely would have not commented if she had not. We were sitting the other night and she asked me what I thought about this thread. I told hre I thought it was silly. The title particularly makes me laugh. I did see some good comments come out and you are right, had she not commented I would not have.
I think it is nieve to believe people with qualities such as you describe will recognize themselves and learn from the comments. As was mentioned a greedy man sees himself as careful with money, an abusive man sees himself as a real man and a lier sees himself as clever.
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He didn't??? How is she here??? How did they marry? Family handouts or stressed credit cards? Maybe a bank heist or two? ;D
Unless he's relying on the folks, or the banks, he must have had enough to get by on...
I still wouldn't be urging anyone to undertake this unless they had sufficient savings or income - even if I tempered my beliefs with knowledge of a couple doing it cheap. I too know a couple on a modest income, but I wouldn't advise others to do it the same way.
I don't think my wife and I have splurged "much", but the costs are not insignificant.
Quite simple: he married when working in Russia. My guess is that they had a modest wedding: whatever they and their families could afford. If you fill out the paperwork on your own, immigration is not that expensive: roughly $1,000 in government fees and $200-$300 for the medical exam and some money for translations. It is an expense, but not a huge sum. Other than that, the only other expense would be the plane trip back to Canada. Now, in Canada, they do what all other young couples do: both work to pay the bills. The main difference in this case is that he went to Russia to work, and happened to find a wife.
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If a woman thinks a man is stingy everyone is better off knowing early on:
1. Because he probably can't afford her
So where do we check for a woman's price tag? It is not a question of whether you can afford her, but one of whether you can meet her expectations (sometimes inflated). I do agree that a man should know whether a woman thinks he is "stingy" and under most circumstances look for someone else. It is important that a husband and wife share similar priorities when it comes to spending money (or not spending money). My wife is quite careful with money, so she does not see being "stingy" as being a bad trait. Yesterday, as a case in point, we bought cabbage in bulk so we can salt it: roughly ten heads of large cabbage for $17.
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I think it is nieve to believe people with qualities such as you describe will recognize themselves and learn from the comments.
That's BS... and I'm think you know it.
Fact: People may TRY to ignore some things about themselves, but deep down they know.
Fact: Because they try to ignore their weaknesses, doesn't mean they cant see them.
Fact: When people are confronted with the negatives about themselves they'll often become hostile.
Fact: You're a well known "rah rah guy" who feels good telling men what they want to hear. Based on your standards no one should tell anything that opposes his own view of a situation therefore your opinions tend to only reinforce the poor logic we sometimes see in here.
Pompoms at the ready...
"Rah Rah Ray
You're the Man
If you can do it
Anyone can!"
Be honest for a moment... You LOVE making people feel good - even if the advice isn't helpful at the time!
Oh, if you're going to call me nieve, at least learn how to spell it first! :wallbash:
Quite simple: he married when working in Russia. My guess is that they had a modest wedding: whatever they and their families could afford. If you fill out the paperwork on your own, immigration is not that expensive: roughly $1,000 in government fees and $200-$300 for the medical exam and some money for translations. It is an expense, but not a huge sum. Other than that, the only other expense would be the plane trip back to Canada. Now, in Canada, they do what all other young couples do: both work to pay the bills. The main difference in this case is that he went to Russia to work, and happened to find a wife.
Bargain!
Meeting, courting, marrying, immigration and travel for approx $1,300 plus or minus... ;D
I wish I was so lucky - but I think we both know you're understating the costs a little! ::)
My concern is that based on your example above you still disagree with me saying:
"For the sake of the men themselves... hopefully the types who won't be pursuing this are:
- Those who can't actually afford it- because it's damn expensive and may put too much pressure on the "new family" if the man doesn't have sufficient income or savings;
... and therefore you're potentially giving poor advice to men who may not be sure if they have the means to fulfill the fantasy.
I'd prefer to warn them of the costs, potential and actual, and let them make their own decision.
p.s. Are you with Misha with the bushy mustache that used to have his pic in his profile... I'm just a little confused.
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So where do we check for a woman's price tag? It is not a question of whether you can afford her, but one of whether you can meet her expectations (sometimes inflated). I do agree that a man should know whether a woman thinks he is "stingy" and under most circumstances look for someone else. It is important that a husband and wife share similar priorities when it comes to spending money (or not spending money). My wife is quite careful with money, so she does not see being "stingy" as being a bad trait. Yesterday, as a case in point, we bought cabbage in bulk so we can salt it: roughly ten heads of large cabbage for $17.
Maaaaate... what's going on? Your last 5 posts have related to finances, or lack of them... and the lower income earners ability to still "get himself" a RW. Please don't take anything I say personally... it's not aimed at you!
I don't think ANYONE is denying it's possible on a LOWER income... but if you're going to give the green light to every guy with minimal funds you should grab a set of pompoms and go join Turbo.
If you ARE the Misha I'm thinking of you might remember the American guy living in a trailer park a few months back that was waiting for the RW to arrive in the US because he didn't have money to travel to her.
Maybe it's better to be honest with him and tell him to focus on his cousin, "She's closer and you already have so much in common". :D
What advice would you give him??? People on low/no income can achieve this in some cases??? You've proven it with your young teacher bloke you're quoting earlier...
I am trying to say is that I would prefer to warn a man about the potential costs rather than let him believe the costs are unsubstantial.
Now... as for your point about "stingy" and the type (price) of woman who would think or say such a thing... WHO FREAKING CARES? If a woman thinks a man is stingy FOR WHATEVER REASON, HE NEEDS TO KNOW.
What gets them to that point is irrelevant...
I'm glad your wife doesn't think you're stingy... but I'd prefer not to debate the price of cabbage if that's cool with you...
I hope we understand each other now and can let go of the semantics.
Kuna
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Bargain!
Meeting, courting, marrying, immigration and travel for approx $1,300 plus or minus... ;D
I wish I was so lucky - but I think we both know you're understating the costs a little! ::)
p.s. Are you with Misha with the bushy mustache that used to have his pic in his profile... I'm just a little confused.
I will address the p.s. first. No, that was Mishenka. I asked Dan to change from gabaub to Misha.
Where exactly am understating costs? Again, it depends on circumstances. If you are going to be flying to Russia solely for a purpose of finding a wife, then you will have travel costs. However, if you are going to Russia for other reasons (work, study, etc.) then the costs will be much less. Here is another nice couple that I met a few months ago: he went to Kazakhstan to study Russian. Lived there for a year or so and met the woman that is now his wife. How would you calculate his costs? Yes, he had to pay to go there and had to pay for his living expenses, but he was doing this with another goal in mind.
In my case, if we exclude immigration costs ($1,000 in government fees and the $2,100 I opted to pay for a lawyer to help with the paperwork), I can't say that I the endeavor cost me more money. If anything, I saved money in the process.
How do I save money:
- My money does not like to waste money. She considers going to a restaurant a frivolous expenses except for the occasional special event or to indulge her occasional (once-a-month) craving for sushi. Because of this, I can say that she is saving me money;
- She is training me to spend less. Any impulse buys that I would have made in the past, she convinces me that I do not need it. So, I spend less;
- My wife wastes nothing! In the past two years, we have not had to throw out any food that had gone buy and she insists that the fridge be empty before buying more food. She can't stand seeing anything going to waste;
- When she does buy something, she looks for quality and for something that she knows that she will use often. She does this with clothes: if she buys a blouse, she has already figured out with what clothes she can wear it and does not buy it unless she is convinced that it will match what she already has. In addition to buying clothes second-hand, she saves money by buying only what she truly needs.
Again, the problem with generalizations is that they may not fit individual circumstances. I will be the first to acknowledge that what worked for me, will not likely work for most men.
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Kuna, you are right and you are wrong. My impression of this thread was the same as her's. You are correct in that I likely would have not commented if she had not. We were sitting the other night and she asked me what I thought about this thread. I told hre I thought it was silly. The title particularly makes me laugh. I did see some good comments come out and you are right, had she not commented I would not have.
I think it is nieve to believe people with qualities such as you describe will recognize themselves and learn from the comments. As was mentioned a greedy man sees himself as careful with money, an abusive man sees himself as a real man and a lier sees himself as clever.
Turbo,
You are so full of it that you cannot even keep your lies straight. You were the first in your family to post here. Two posts actually. Your wifey only chimed in with a pitiful attempt to discredit me. How ironic it is that her efforts only made her look foolish because of her lack of ability to wrap her mind around American humor. Sometimes there is justice. :ROFL:
The irony is also quite obvious when you disengage from the thread upon getting cornered in your own foolish statements or have no witty comeback (or reasonable answers) to straight forward questions posed to you (three times) Many here see right through your bullsh!t now Turbo, sorry that we are no longer baffled by it any more.
KenC
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I don't think ANYONE is denying it's possible on a LOWER income... but if you're going to give the green light to every guy with minimal funds you should grab a set of pompoms and go join Turbo.
If you ARE the Misha I'm thinking of you might remember the American guy living in a trailer park a few months back that was waiting for the RW to arrive in the US because he didn't have money to travel to her.
Maybe it's better to be honest with him and tell him to focus on his cousin, "She's closer and you already have so much in common". :D
I am trying to say is that I would prefer to warn a man about the potential costs rather than let him believe the costs are unsubstantial.
Nope, do not live in a trailer park. I did know, however, of one nice Russian couple who did live in a trailer park. He was another student who lived in Russia for a couple of years and then came back to Canada. She did not complain about living in the trailer park. Instead, she got her master's degree and is now living in a small town up north earning a very decent salary. Still with her husband and doing well from what I have heard.
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Those who can't actually afford it- because it's damn expensive and may put too much pressure on the "new family" if the man doesn't have sufficient income or savings;
I submit that if a family starts out under "pressure" it will better prepare them for trials and difficulties that may lie down the road of life. A human being or a union of two people cannot grow stonger without adversity. It's a basic law of nature.
If a miscalculation by a few thousand dollars is "too much pressure" for the couple to face, then better they learn it earlier than later.
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From Kuna; Ultimately almost anyone CAN find a wife to marry him..
vwrw: I agree with you, because if even spiteful psychos, who in addition are ugly midgets, can find wives to marry them, then almost anyone can find a wife in Ukraine.
From Kuna; Fact: When people are confronted with the negatives about themselves they'll often become hostile.
vwrw: I agree with you.
The irony is also quite obvious when you disengage from the thread upon getting cornered in your own foolish statements or have no witty comeback (or reasonable answers) to straight forward questions posed to you (three times) Many here see right through your bullsh!t now Turbo, sorry that we are no longer baffled by it any more.
KenC
KenC, you became hostile because you were confronted with the negatives about you. Admit that deep inside you know that you are one of those who you call “not- enough -man”.
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I submit that if a family starts out under "pressure" it will better prepare them for trials and difficulties that may lie down the road of life. A human being or a union of two people cannot grow stonger without adversity. It's a basic law of nature.
If a miscalculation by a few thousand dollars is "too much pressure" for the couple to face, then better they learn it earlier than later.
Ronnie,
I agree with you, but draw the line where one creates debt for this venture.
Probably the worst case scenario is when the newlyweds look at a pile of unpaid bills and cc debt and it is realized or felt by the wife that she somehow caused this financial disaster.
One should at least give her a clean plate to work off of once she arrives.
A woman might be happy contributing to her family, but paying off debt and possibly alimony/child support to the former wife that is more than the couple's remaining expendable income can't be very rewarding.
Debt is a ticket to disaster IMHO.
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Yesterday, as a case in point, we bought cabbage in bulk so we can salt it: roughly ten heads of large cabbage for $17.
Oh yeah.. I've never been able to make it through a cabbage shredding session without donating some blood to the huge mountain of cabbage on the kitchen table.
Squeezing that amount of salted cabbage wears out your hands quickly, but does disinfect the wounds quite well.
We air the bedroom daily afterwards..
Cabbage $17.00, the experience - priceless!
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KenC, you became hostile because you were confronted with the negatives about you. Admit that deep inside you know that you are one of those who you call “not- enough -man”.
Hostile? I'm not being hostile. I am laughing at your transparent motives and ignorant execution. Sorry, I am not going to be baited by your childish accusations. Go away and play with someone at your own level please.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
KenC
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Oh yeah.. I've never been able to make it through a cabbage shredding session without donating some blood to the huge mountain of cabbage on the kitchen table.
Squeezing that amount of salted cabbage wears out your hands quickly, but does disinfect the wounds quite well.
We air the bedroom daily afterwards..
Cabbage $17.00, the experience - priceless!
BC,
Maybe we should rename this thread; Are you man enough to make salted cabbage? :cheesygrin:
KenC
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Hostile? I'm not being hostile. I am laughing at your transparent motives and ignorant execution. Sorry, I am not going to be baited by your childish accusations. Go away and play with someone at your own level please.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
KenC
I suppose this post was meant to insult me? ;D A desire to insult somebody isn’t an evidence of hostility of the insulter?
Notwithstanding how many fake smiley faces you put forward they won’t hide your hostile intention.
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I suppose this post was meant to insult me? ;D A desire to insult somebody isn’t an evidence of hostility of the insulter?
Notwithstanding how many fake smiley faces you put forward they won’t hide your hostile intention.
If you have nothing relevant to say regarding the topic of this thread, please abstain from posting here. It is the only courteous thing for you to do (not that you would know).
KenC
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Are there certain types of men or certain personalities of men that should not get involved with this process?
It has long been said here that RW are not for everyone. I have always maintained that men with little or no dating skills should avoid this process as the possibility for them to be eaten by sharks is just too great. Your thoughts?
KenC
I think one of the big problems with this thread is the title "Are you man enough for a RW." I don't recall any point in my adult life in America or Europe where anyone has used the expression "Are you man enough" during an intelligent conversation... Actually no one I know has ever uttered it in my presence. Usually when I've heard it something incredibly dumb or macho was about to be said in a commercial that typically involved gory video games, drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, or doing anything incredibly dangerous.
Now KenC's original post was actually pretty reasonable. I don't think it or any number of other reasonable statements on this thread have anything to do with being "man enough." A lot of it is just common sense. And a lot would also be applicable to men seeking to date women from the US or Western Europe.
I saw the title of this thread and decided to read it because I thought maybe Russian woman were into some sort of weird machismo stuff. I'm an educated 30 yo man and I don't have time for such games. So I was looking for a deal breaker. It turns out my fears were not well founded. RW seem to want and value a lot of the same things normal AM want and value.
I also agree with Turboguy. Some of what we've said here is not very nice. And it sort of looks pathetic for a bunch of old guys to sit around on the internet bashing people that don't conform to their image of an ideal man. But I would submit that along with that bashing there are other more constructive things going on that are being masked by the noise.
I don't think we should tell anyone that they are 100% guaranteed to fail in their quest. I jumped down someone else's throat because that's what I thought they were saying. But I do think its constructive for people to discuss what they've seen work and what they've seen people have problems with. Its nice to discuss the pros and cons and leave it up to the reader to make their own decision. In America we say, "your dime, your time." Its someone else's dough. If they want to blow it by spending $600 for a profile, and then put up a grainy webcam shot of themselves in a tshirt I guess its their right.
I had a girlfriend once who would always blow up at me, because she said I told her not to do things. She was mistaken. I just told her to wait and plan a little bit and she would have more success. This really should be a discussion about optimal and suboptimal approaches to successful RW dating. Saying you don't have a prayer go home is a bit of a cop out. Saying you may have an uphill struggle here is some advice that will improve your odds... That's more constructive.
Case in point... I read an interview where a RW was discussing a African American's experience with FSU agencies. The AAM said that he sent messages to numerous women and got a number of replies. Lets say he got 20. He then divulged to the 20 that he was Black and his response rate immediately plummeted to 2. Then he tried a different approach. He posted a profile that clearly indicated his race and he had a higher success rate from women that contacted him. My question to this gentleman is why in the world would he not divulge his ethnicity in his initial correspondence. I'm obviously not saying he doesn't have a chance with RW, but his initial approach was suboptimal. Same guy, different approach, better results. That's the type of stuff that should be discussed.
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Bob,
I think this thread goes well beyond dating.
I can say that from my experience, this relationship has been the most challenging of any.. and most of my life I have dated women of other nationalities.
Sure, I also believe any man can arrange a few *dates* with a RW, but a long term relationship is another beast altogether.
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Bob,
I think this thread goes well beyond dating.
I can say that from my experience, this relationship has been the most challenging of any.. and most of my life I have dated women of other nationalities.
Sure, I also believe any man can arrange a few *dates* with a RW, but a long term relationship is another beast altogether.
I just used "dating" as a general term. I currently reside in America. I don't consider anything that involves $1000 round trip airplane tickets and 14 hrs of travel time each way "dating." I call that looking for a wife. In my opinion guys that marry these girls have a courtship... they didn't date.
As a newbie who's never been to the FSU I see the complete lack of "dating" as a major problem with this endeavor. On average there is no way with those types of barriers you are going to have as robust a relationship before marriage as someone doing the usual American dating thing. But on the other hand if I recall correctly there are societies that completely lack dating in the American sense and have arranged marriages. Their relationships are equally if not more durable when compared to traditional American marriages.
That's why I'm here m'man. I want to hear the trials and tribulations of others and make my own decision as to whether its worth it for me.
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I just used "dating" as a general term. I currently reside in America. I don't consider anything that involves $1000 round trip airplane tickets and 14 hrs of travel time each way "dating." I call that looking for a wife. In my opinion guys that marry these girls have a courtship... they didn't date.
As a newbie who's never been to the FSU I see the complete lack of "dating" as a major problem with this endeavor. On average there is no way with those types of barriers you are going to have as robust a relationship before marriage as someone doing the usual American dating thing. But on the other hand if I recall correctly there are societies that completely lack dating in the American sense and have arranged marriages. Their relationships are equally if not more durable when compared to traditional American marriages.
That's why I'm here m'man. I want to hear the trials and tribulations of others and make my own decision as to whether its worth it for me.
I would hope, and expect, you will find a resounding chorus of guys telling you that to make a life commitment without spending ample time getting to know the other person (a/k/a 'dating'), is a recipe for disaster. While there are certainly those who threw the dice and came out OK, I highly doubt anyone would encourage others to take those risks - unless, of course, they have some fiscal interest.
As for those other cultures (other than western cultures) having different traditions insofar as dating goes - yes, there are. I lived for a short time in India, and still keep in contact with many friends there. Some of those friends - both male and female - are currently in a marriage arranged by their parents. By most accounts they are successful unions. HOWEVER - they grew up expecting to follow their culture's traditions of arranged marriage and they had the enormous benefit of family support throughout. Neither would be true if a person were to try to emulate THAT tradition with a RW. Women and families from the FSU are not raised to expect others to arrange their unions.
Anyway - just a few loose comments in response to your post.
FWIW
- Dan
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As for those other cultures (other than western cultures) having different traditions insofar as dating goes - yes, there are. I lived for a short time in India, and still keep in contact with many friends there. Some of those friends - both male and female - are currently in a marriage arranged by their parents. By most accounts they are successful unions. HOWEVER - they grew up expecting to follow their culture's traditions of arranged marriage and they had the enormous benefit of family support throughout. Neither would be true if a person were to try to emulate THAT tradition with a RW. Women and families from the FSU are not raised to expect others to arrange their unions.
Anyway - just a few loose comments in response to your post.
FWIW
- Dan
I just recently spent 3 months in India. It is a very interesting culture.
From my understanding, people really don't date when it comes to arranged marriages. People start "dating" once they are engaged.
They are not all arranged solely by the parents btw. Sometimes the man picks out his own fiance. The man needs a woman family member, normally his mother, to ask the woman prospects family to marry.
Of course there are different religions as well as customs there.
Sorry for the off topic comments.
Thomas
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Hi!
I am still very new to all this.
This is not a argument statement just my experience.......
I meet my lady online last july. We are both shy and didn't have any long term relationship experience. The more we learned about each other, the
more we identified with each other. I had sent her a three page letter about some of the things I have been through in my life. That night she called me (while I was sleeping)
and she wanted me to read her letter she had sent. I read her letter about her life and I understood what she has gone through in her life. We had shared some of the same
things in life (losing someone very close, feeling of being alone and other things). That was a big turning point in our relationship. Our relationship took time, we both are not
in any rush. In December we decide to take the next step and become a couple. Two months later I visited her in her home city and met her family and friends. We had the
greatest time together. After that trip I could see her a someone I could spend the rest of my life with.
I believe in being equal in our relationship. I believe in making important decisions together. I have told her all this and she has no problems with this. We have been
very open and honest with what we both want in our life and in our future together. We have had our little stumbling blocks, mostly me in the beginning (trust and unsure
of her motives). But we made it through that and we are much stronger now.
I think when you find someone that you identify with things are easier. But we still have a long way to go in our relationship. I think we were very very lucky to find each other.
Our next step will be marriage. We have both talked and understand that it will not be easy (especially for her). But we are both willing to do what it will take to make it work.
So........
Is it possible to find love with a FSU lady, if your shy, no long term relationship experience, etc. Yes. How long will our relationship last, I honestly don't know, but I honestly see no reason now why I won't last. This July will be one year and counting......
I write this to give the guys like me and little hope. But I also feel that I was very very lucky and sometimes it takes luck.:)
I understand that many other members have been at this a lot longer then I and that their experience should be listen too.
Thanks
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I just recently spent 3 months in India. It is a very interesting culture.
From my understanding, people really don't date when it comes to arranged marriages. People start "dating" once they are engaged.
They are not all arranged solely by the parents btw. Sometimes the man picks out his own fiance. The man needs a woman family member, normally his mother, to ask the woman prospects family to marry.
Of course there are different religions as well as customs there.
Sorry for the off topic comments.
Thomas
Thomas,
Most of the people I know had *some* input into the selection process - and all of them tell me that they had veto power - so it may be something of a misnomer to consider it entirely arranged by parents.
One of the things their marriage traditions call for is the removal of the wife from her family home, to live under the roof of the husband's family. The MIL has enormous influence - for all that entails, positive and negative. I *have* met a few people that did not follow this pattern, but they were definitely in the minority.
Again - FWIW
- Dan
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Rob,
This:
That's why I'm here m'man. I want to hear the trials and tribulations of others and make my own decision as to whether its worth it for me.
Doesn't seem to fit with this:
I also agree with Turboguy. Some of what we've said here is not very nice. And it sort of looks pathetic for a bunch of old guys to sit around on the internet bashing people that don't conform to their image of an ideal man. But I would submit that along with that bashing there are other more constructive things going on that are being masked by the noise.
I would submit that there was very little "bashing" done here. In fact, your hero, Turboguy, is the only one to post the label of "loser" here. I would also say that if this mild thread is offensive for you, just wait until you are sitting across the table from a direct RW. By comparason the bad news delivered here was sugar coated.
BTW, I knew the title was a stretch, but I wanted a good "hook" to get a lot of participation. And it obviously worked on YOU. 8)
KenC
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I don't consider anything that involves $1000 round trip airplane tickets and 14 hrs of travel time each way "dating." I call that looking for a wife. In my opinion guys that marry these girls have a courtship... they didn't date.
Bob, you asked about "uphill struggles." You just described one - a man who goes to the FSU looking for a wife. Such men are not focused on more important goals: getting to know a woman, understanding her culture, and taking the time to build a solid relationship.
As a newbie who's never been to the FSU I see the complete lack of "dating" as a major problem with this endeavor.
You can date in the FSU. It takes more time, more money vs. a one-week search for a wife.
On average there is no way with those types of barriers you are going to have as robust a relationship before marriage as someone doing the usual American dating thing.
My relationships with UW and RW were more robust than with AW. Time is compressed, both people realize it, and things naturally progress quickly if both parties are sincerely interested.
But on the other hand if I recall correctly there are societies that completely lack dating in the American sense and have arranged marriages. Their relationships are equally if not more durable when compared to traditional American marriages.
Apples and oranges. Such are more marriages of families with much deliberation and strong cultural roots.
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I had a girlfriend once who would always blow up at me, because she said I told her not to do things. She was mistaken. I just told her to wait and plan a little bit and she would have more success.
I understand why you are looking elsewhere. You may argue that your past girlfirend was "mistaken," yet she perceived that you were telling her not to do things. Perception is stronger than reality. I don't know about the other men's experience, yet I met many RW and UW whose perception contrasted starkly with my sense of reality. Some of it was cultural. Not all.
Bob, you are a young man, half my age, and you seem to possess the impetuosity of youth. If you go to the FSU, you will probably be dating young girls. I caution you to take your time. Read DKMM's many threads in the archives.
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... a greedy man sees himself as careful with money, an abusive man sees himself as a real man and a lier sees himself as clever.
Must agree with that.
I told my wife about this thread and asked her what type of men should not waste their time with Russian women. She answered, "Greedy men!" Then she asked, "Why discuss it? It will not convince a greedy man to stay home. A greedy man is greedy, will not change and thinks his way is correct. Let him waste his time. He makes the generous men look even better."
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Gator,
I am still trying to understand the nuance of language when a woman uses the terms greedy and generous. At first, it turned me off to her those words used in profiles, etc. But as I've understood the language better and I have come to understand that greedy is a miss-translation. A better word would be "selfish."
As to when they say "generous" they really should be saying "unselfish."
Selfish and unselfish fit the intended meaning better than greedy and generous.
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I'm reminded of my first few months of my search. When I first appeared at the Adam-and-Eva agency in Odessa, I spoke no Russian but what little I could remember from a college course many years earlier. I needed an interpreter for the ladies that didn't speak English.
Over the several months I was in and out of Odessa, the owner and staff got to know me pretty well. What they didn't know was that the lady that I had been seeing or talking to daily didn't speak English and I had stopped using an interpreter. The result was a baptism of fire of my Russian language skills. When I ended that relationship and returned to the pool, so to speak, I sat in the office of the agency waiting for a lady to show up for her appointment with me.
In Russian, the owner and her assistant began talking about me and my virtues and vices in my presence not knowing that during the 3 months they had not seem me, I had become reasonably proficient in Russian. I didn't let them go to far, so as to not embarrass them but it was interesting to hear the candid comments. It was like being a fly on the wall.
They were stunned and a little embarrassed when I began to speak Russian with them. I'm sure they were thinking, "OMG, what did we say?" The one comment the owner made that intrigued me and I must say woke me up a bit was, "on slishkom dobriy" (He's too kind).
What's wrong with kind? Can one really be too kind? I never thought so, but this candid observation was perhaps a turning point for me. The main fault the WOVO said she found in me was that I was not forceful enough! (interesting she never made that observation during our many phone conversations and emails). Maybe some women see kindness as a weakness. So they teach their men to be unkind and then complain at them when they act that way. Is it any wonder RM alcoholism is so high? :o
I resolved that I would be nice but firm. Say "no" but with a quiet resolute voice. If they stomp off, let them walk 'til their feet hurt. Then offer to rub her sore feet but don't offer a second time when she rejects your gesture. Self confidence seems to a great aphrodisiac.
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Rob,
I would also say that if this mild thread is offensive for you, just wait until you are sitting across the table from a direct RW. By comparason the bad news delivered here was sugar coated.
KenC
The thing that we often seem to forget here is that RW were not made with cookie cutters. Just as we are talking about all the types of men who should and should not do this there are as many differences with the women as well.
BC commented that his wife's adjustments were one of the most difficult things he ever experienced. VWRW has been a real trooper and the things I have gone through were as close to nothing as you could imagine. I think my adjusting in my first marriage was tougher.
I have the impression that some of your wives enjoy the finer things in life, shopping in the best stores eating in 5 star restaurants etc. Then we have Mischa who salts cabbage and to be honest VWRW is much more in that group than the others. She is a very careful and conservative shopper and our meals out are few and usually in a Chinese Buffet. I hear all this talk about ice cubes and VWRW likes ice cubes. VWRW is not that big into Russian food. RW are not made from cookie cutters any more than we are.
Back to the point I quoted. I have not had a situation where sitting across the table from her was even the tinest bit difficult. Yes, like all RW she does not beat around the bush when she wants to say something but she most always says things politely and in a nice way. Yes Bob may face that issue and he may not.
I think Bob did a good job of putting into words his impression of this thread. They were the same as mine. Actually when I first saw the title an image formed in my mind of someone beating on their chest spitting out that they are a real man. I did also take into account that KenC had been looking for a catchy title and it is.
I told my wife about this thread and asked her what type of men should not waste their time with Russian women. She answered, "Greedy men!" Then she asked, "Why discuss it? It will not convince a greedy man to stay home. A greedy man is greedy, will not change and thinks his way is correct. Let him waste his time. He makes the generous men look even better."
You have a wise wife Gator. That is exactly what I have been saying but I think it has been an interesting thread with some good points being made.
Ronnie, I think that was a good point about the meaning of selfish and greedy. I have a feeling though different women may have different views but for the most part the selfish person is the one they want to avoid. There are a few who look at greedy as someone who does not buy them everything they can dream of having and those are best avoided anyway.
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What is with this term " greedy"? I don't get it.
Most Americans are careful with their money, and even then we spend 105% of our incomes; is that completely unknown to RW?
Unless one is robbing banks, one would be " greedy " , very " greedy " just to survive. That is the way most of us are, regardless of our incomes, and that should not be a surprise to anyone.
Even people with money did not get there by throwing around money.
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Who or what type shouldn't? The eternal question no doubt. IMO one who definitely should NOT or does not have what it takes is the one without a longer term plan. That said, conversely, one who goes into a marriage of any sort and much more so an international marriage must have some type of life plan or goal which goes well beyond the search and capture stage.
By way of example.........
Dear friends, both Australians, both very well educated, both had their career paths mapped out and yet he'd spotted her as a teenager and set his mind on marrying her. He persued her uphill and down dale, ironically enough (33 years ago), when she and her girlfriend were traveling across Europe and even behind the iron curtain into Russia, he found where she was and persued her there and all the way back home to Aus. Yes they eventually married, was he a hopeless romantic? No he wasn't, in fact he was quite a tough nut but his weakness was her (Not a fault, simply a fact). Their marriage was a workable one but a rocky ride for 26 years and 5 children. Later there was a watershed, and she has shared private discussions with me since his death, ultimately, he realised that his focus had been on marryring her and once he did, he had no real idea of what to do with her or what else he wanted in life. Clearly he floundered for 25 or more years because once his goal was achieved he had no plan from there.
The point to be gained from this and it was brought home to sharp focus with me by jb when he advised me to make sure I had a hobby in the garage or similar, is there must be much more to your life than a wife vacancy or once you fill that vacancy you will become a boring and bored person. BTW the above couple I mentioned ended up having 4 of the most blissful and romantic years together in the latter stages before cancer buried him.
I/O
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What is with this term " greedy"? I don't get it.
Most Americans are careful with their money, and even then we spend 105% of our incomes; is that completely unknown to RW?
Let me explain once again.
In Russian, the word "жадный" means both:
greedy - eager to obtain; avaricious - and
stingy - niggardly; miserly; ungenerous.
Most women with limited English vocabulary know just the first word but not the second. Hence they will say "greedy" when what they really mean is "stingy".
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Anyone calling an American " greedy " or " stingy " must have lost his/ her mind.
We are the most spending nation in the history of mankind. A little bit of research on how Americans spend would be very revealing for someone who does not know.
Not everyone has a million dollars and few if any those who have go to FSU looking for a wife. But as a nation we spend 105% of our incomes, be it pauper or CEO.
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Anyone calling an American " greedy " or " stingy " must have lost his/ her mind.
We are the most spending nation in the history of mankind.
Sorry to disappoint you, ambach, but with all due respect to the Great American Nation, I must attest that there certainly are quite a few stingy Americans. ;D
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Whether America is a great nation or not is irrelevant and besides the point.
America has a deep debt crisis, you probably don't know it; our financial system is beseiged and that is all from Americans spending money they don't have by borrowing.
A few people who may be stingy, because they don't have much and they have to make do from what they have; I see nothing wrong in that.
Someone who can live within his means deserves admiration, stingy or not. RW would be plain stupid to turn him down for that, and go after a guy who spends his way to bankruptcy; last year there were 2 million personal bankrupticies filed.
I am surprised that some basic facts about our country are unknown to some.
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ambach,
I have to agree with Blues Fairy. But "greediness" is all a matter of perception too. A person may be viewed as greedy by some and thrifty or prudent with his money by others. It is a totally subjective call.
American prosperity almost works against men going to the fsu too. If the RW is of the mindset that all Americans are rich, which many do think, then the man can look like a total cheapskate for not offering up the best of the best to her. It is my understanding that many RM will spend their last ruble to impress a girl which further promotes the idea as the RW has those expectations.
KenC
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Anyone calling an American " greedy " or " stingy " must have lost his/ her mind.
We are the most spending nation in the history of mankind. A little bit of research on how Americans spend would be very revealing for someone who does not know.
Not everyone has a million dollars and few if any those who have go to FSU looking for a wife. But as a nation we spend 105% of our incomes, be it pauper or CEO.
Ambach, there are many threads on RWD that attempt to decipher why guys get tagged as greedy. In my experience, the G-man label is often misapplied by FSU people and, making matters worse, men don't really understand the small behaviors that can earn the title. The concept of investments, personal savings, 401ks, mortgages, etc. are not understood by many.
The worst mistake you can make is to get indignant in the face of such attitudes; coming to mutual understanding about money and finance requires a lot of patience on both sides.
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Whether America is a great nation or not is irrelevant and besides the point.
America has a deep debt crisis, you probably don't know it; our financial system is beseiged and that is all from Americans spending money they don't have by borrowing.
A few people who may be stingy, because they don't have much and they have to make do from what they have; I see nothing wrong in that.
Someone who can live within his means deserves admiration, stingy or not. RW would be plain stupid to turn him down for that, and go after a guy who spends his way to bankruptcy; last year there were 2 million personal bankrupticies filed.
I am surprised that some basic facts about our country are unknown to some.
ambach,
Now I think it is you that is being naive here. If anything, Russians think our economy is much worse than it really is. It is plastered all over Russian TV that America is in a depression.
KenC
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BC commented that his wife's adjustments were one of the most difficult things he ever experienced. VWRW has been a real trooper and the things I have gone through were as close to nothing as you could imagine. I think my adjusting in my first marriage was tougher.
Patience...
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Gator,
I am still trying to understand the nuance of language when a woman uses the terms greedy and generous. At first, it turned me off to her those words used in profiles, etc. But as I've understood the language better and I have come to understand that greedy is a miss-translation. A better word would be "selfish."
As to when they say "generous" they really should be saying "unselfish."
There is a difference. Blues Fairy explains greedy very well in her post above.
Selfish is about being self-absorbed, a man caring much more about his own feelings and desires than those of his woman or children.
Thus, a man may be generous and selfish, or greedy and unselfish, or the worst – both greedy and selfish.
A rich man is considered greedy if he buys things for a woman but little more than what a generous, poor man would buy. Because RW think that AM who come to Russia have more money than most RM, we are expected to buy more than a RM.
I guess the concept derived because until recently RW made much less money than RM. Russia was more of a man's world than what we are accustomed to in America. A RW depended upon a man to take care of her, and any signs that he is greedy would prompt her to think that she could not trust him to take care of her. While we are evaluating the women we meet and date, the RW is concurrently judging us but using different tests.
I have also been told by multiple RW that a RM typically spends more during courtship to impress the woman and his spending declines after marriage. If this is the typical RW mentality, their only thought is that if a man is greedy/stingy before marriage, he will be insufferable afterwards.
BTW, if a RW earns a good salary, she will still expect the RM to take care of her. What she makes is hers. ;) The woman gives birth, takes care of the child, etc. All a man does is sit on the couch and watch TV. ;)
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I have also been told by multiple RW that a RM typically spends more during courtship to impress the woman and his spending declines after marriage. If this is the typical RW mentality, their only thought is that if a man is greedy/stingy before marriage, he will be insufferable afterwards.
About a year and a half ago, one of Liliya's friends back home was pursued by a young local gentleman. She understood he was interested because she came into work one morning to find he had spent roughly his full months salary to fill the entire law office with roses. This is where the bar is set boys ;)
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Rob,
This:Doesn't seem to fit with this:I would submit that there was very little "bashing" done here. In fact, your hero, Turboguy, is the only one to post the label of "loser" here. I would also say that if this mild thread is offensive for you, just wait until you are sitting across the table from a direct RW. By comparason the bad news delivered here was sugar coated.
BTW, I knew the title was a stretch, but I wanted a good "hook" to get a lot of participation. And it obviously worked on YOU. 8)
KenC
Rob,
This:Doesn't seem to fit with this:I would submit that there was very little "bashing" done here. In fact, your hero, Turboguy, is the only one to post the label of "loser" here. I would also say that if this mild thread is offensive for you, just wait until you are sitting across the table from a direct RW. By comparason the bad news delivered here was sugar coated.
BTW, I knew the title was a stretch, but I wanted a good "hook" to get a lot of participation. And it obviously worked on YOU. 8)
KenC
KenC,
I was in no way offended by statements in this thread... at least the ones I read.
KenC I said, "Some of what WE've said here is not very nice." What prompted me to post a reply to TurboGuy was mostly I didn't want to leave the impression that I was the type of guy that derived pleasure from sitting around bashing other people. I also clearly stated that while there may be an impression of bashing there was actually a lot of constructive talk going on. I'm just of two minds about the whole thing. I thought everything I said was true. Its just after Turboguy's observation I felt a little guilty. I wasn't offended. I just thought maybe it wasn't the most mature Christian way of presenting myself.
I agreed with what some of Turboguy said and I agree with some of what you said. Neither of you is my hero. I just happen to agree with you two sometimes.
By the way congrats on the "hook." It worked. After reading your initial post I kinda thought that's what was going on. But then I read Misha's post and thought there may be other people that got the wrong impression. Misha's story to me is the perfect answer to people that say why marry a RW. He had a problem and he found a very reasonable practical solution to it. Nobody here would think he isn't "man enough" just because he can't pick up a woman at the grocery store. And I felt bad that he may have that impression.
Funny story Misha... A few weeks ago I was talking to a woman I was on a date with and we were discussing the whole meeting someone at a grocery store thing. Our consensus was, who does that? Maybe it happens, but neither of us had ever done something like that.
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Bob, you asked about "uphill struggles." You just described one - a man who goes to the FSU looking for a wife. Such men are not focused on more important goals: getting to know a woman, understanding her culture, and taking the time to build a solid relationship.
You can date in the FSU. It takes more time, more money vs. a one-week search for a wife.
My relationships with UW and RW were more robust than with AW. Time is compressed, both people realize it, and things naturally progress quickly if both parties are sincerely interested.
Apples and oranges. Such are more marriages of families with much deliberation and strong cultural roots.
I knew I was going to open a can of worms when I made my post about "dating." I did it anyway because I wanted to see people's impressions. Its a question mark I am still trying to get my head around. And yes believe me I am reading other posts. I've read a ton of threads. This is only the second one I've posted to.
I don't think expressing some degree of caution and skepticisms is impetuous. I think that degree of cautiousness has allowed me to avoid marriage/divorce, children (legitimate or otherwise), and guarantee myself a six figure job for life. It would be easy for me to daydream while looking at pictures of women from the FSU and then hop on a plane to Kiev to "get" a UW. I wouldn't do something like that. I am not going to ruin my divorce free life with an adventure like that. I didn't mean to imply the guys here popped over spent a week and got married. What I was implying is no matter how many of those 14hr each way round trips you take you will never have as much face time as you would if you dated a girl in your home town. You implied that you could mitigate this downside. Your point is noted and I will have to decide whether your explanation is credible enough for me to attempt this endeavor.
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It would be easy for me to daydream while looking at pictures of women from the FSU and then hop on a plane to Kiev to "get" a UW. I didn't mean to imply the guys here popped over spent a week and got married.
Bob, such guys do exist, they come to RWD after they realize their wives aren't as foolish as they are and married for $reasons$ other than infatuation. Usually they're looking for advice on how to end things as quickly and painlessly as possible, or their wives have already taken that step and now they are up a certain famous creek without a paddle. They usually disappear for good after telling their horror stories and being directed to the proper legal resources.
It's no feat to find an FSU woman willing to marry you after a week, they're a dime a dozen.
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In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen; to reinforce it independently from validity of the claim and to make the claim to be a strong belief through repeated assertion.
In a consequence use the fabricated belief as a confirmation that married RWD’s members are superior ones.
I'm afraid that I came away with exactly this impression as well. As a guy who admitted in his introductory thread that I'm not the kind of guy to pursue a RW woman, there's alot of innuendo that I'm too weak or socially lacking to get one.
If the Ukraine were parked 20 miles off the Texas coast it'd probably be a different story.
I read your stated reason for making this thread but any number of equivalent approaches would have met your purpose without implying a favorable view toward already married forum members: i.e. What qualities in a man aid his search for a RW? or Is there any qualities which make it impossible to get a RW?
wtg, vwrw, for calling out the emperor's new clothes.
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Blues Fairy's definitions are consistent with my understanding as well. Greed is what acquires money and wealth. Without a certain amount of it, one can have little motivation to build a business or climb the corporate latter.
Generosity is not usually found in such people. They are obsessed with acquiring more; so giving away, unless it's with expectation of a return runs counter to their nature.
The RM who filled the room with roses, spending a whole month's salary, clearly was making an investment with an expectation of a return on that investment.
True generosity and unselfishness is when there is no expectation of anything in return. It's stuff you do for strangers as well as for friends, family members and loved ones.
It's indicative of a great man and every woman should become practiced at knowing the difference.
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The RM who filled the room with roses, spending a whole month's salary, clearly was making an investment with an expectation of a return on that investment.
I agree. Sometimes the return is status. Some people make a show out of being generous as a way to display either their wealth or their generosity. Filling a room with flowers is not meant to impress one woman, it is a spectacle for all the others that will go into that room.
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I can only give the example of the richest man in the world.
He drives a beat up car and buys his suits at discount stores.
I don't think he has given a rose to anyone ever.
He also plans to give away more than 40 billion dollars to charitable causes.
We all know who he is. His name is Warren Buffett.
There is a book " The millionaire next door " ; people who have made it are very frugal with their money. They are not onstentatious, that is for sure.
For RW not to know this is incredibly naive. To think that some guy who is spending his way to bankruptcy ( and there were two million of them last year alone) is somehow better than someone who spends with caution, is just simply hard to believe. Now these two million people actually filed for bankruptcy; the stats are that 76% of all Americans have a "negative" net worth, that is they owe more than they have. I don't think throwing around roses would be prudent for them.
Small wonder that the failure rate is so high.
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The trick is to find someone who is not impressed by ostentatious displays of wealth and crude efforts to buy affection. This is why the first weeks/months of courtship are important. What are her core values? You have to figure this out before you get married.
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ambach: You are not "Getting it". B/F tried to explain and I'll expand a little. "Greedy" as you will hear it used (In RW terms) describes the guy who is too stingy to buy her a drink on the street for example, or a guy who buys one for himself and fails to buy one for her..............................and so on, a guy who is not observant of her basic needs. The RW who applies this term to the non supply of flowers and chocolates isn't worth knowing (With the exception of birthdays and womens day).
As to the other thing of RM spending to their last rouble when courting a woman, yes it happens and yes there is far too many women who expect this and yes there is a certain "spoiling" among RW for which RM are wholly responsible and we as WM come in on the wrong end of that process. For the most part, I have noticed a great many RW, even my wife to an extent with a hint of a "Princess Mentality". This is simply something, if you persue this process, you'll have to learn to deal with.
I/O
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He drives a beat up car and buys his suits at discount stores.
We all know who he is. His name is Warren Buffett.
The very same who has made it to top 10 on Forbes's Best-Dressed Billionaires list? :D
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I'm afraid that I came away with exactly this impression as well. As a guy who admitted in his introductory thread that I'm not the kind of guy to pursue a RW woman, there's alot of innuendo that I'm too weak or socially lacking to get one.
Sorry Sudz, you got that backazzward. No one here said that if you don't have a RW you are......... or you must be........... All that was pointed out is that there are some characteristics that some men have that make them a high risk to be successful in this venture. Don't hold us accountable for your own insecurities.
If the Ukraine were parked 20 miles off the Texas coast it'd probably be a different story.
Well it aint and never will be so all Ukrainian women are safe.
I read your stated reason for making this thread but any number of equivalent approaches would have met your purpose without implying a favorable view toward already married forum members: i.e. What qualities in a man aid his search for a RW? or Is there any qualities which make it impossible to get a RW?
wtg, vwrw, for calling out the emperor's new clothes.
Damn tootin the old married bastards feel good about themselves! We know exactly how difficult this is and are proud to be in the select few that succeeded. If our confidence and sense of accomplishment intimidates you, too bad.
You are part of the American problem of "entitlement." You and others think that everyone is entitled to the same opportunities. Well, I got a news flash for you, it ain't ever gonna happen dude. There is always going to be someone smarter, richer, better looking and more charming that will have the opportunities you don't. And that goes for me too. I am so sick and tired of the American expectation of being coddled through life and when things don't go your way, the incessant whining begins. You once described your self as having "of character only envied by overcooked green beans" and wisely proclaimed "I prefer a quiet, peaceful solitary existence." It is a good thing because a guy like you would be eaten alive in the fsu. That is of course if you ever found your balls to actually go. It is far easier to sit in your Barcalounger and criticize those that went, conquered and now enjoy the fruits of their success.
KenC
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I can only give the example of the richest man in the world.
He drives a beat up car and buys his suits at discount stores.
I don't think he has given a rose to anyone ever.
He also plans to give away more than 40 billion dollars to charitable causes.
We all know who he is. His name is Warren Buffett.
There is a book " The millionaire next door " ; people who have made it are very frugal with their money. They are not onstentatious, that is for sure.
For RW not to know this is incredibly naive. To think that some guy who is spending his way to bankruptcy ( and there were two million of them last year alone) is somehow better than someone who spends with caution, is just simply hard to believe. Now these two million people actually filed for bankruptcy; the stats are that 76% of all Americans have a "negative" net worth, that is they owe more than they have. I don't think throwing around roses would be prudent for them.
Small wonder that the failure rate is so high.
Let's all take a moment to learn our American billionaires. There are a lot of them and I can understand how people get mixed up.
First of all Warren Buffet is only barely the richest man in the world. Last year or the year before I think it was a Mexican. Yes I know I was shocked too. Given the tales of woe I hear from those guys when they cross the border you would think there was no dough down there. By the way there are more Russians on this year's list of the top twenty five richest people than Americans. I'm thinking of opening a RM AW dating site. What do you guys think?
Back to Buffet... Buffet doesn't drive a pickup. Like any self respecting pimp Buffet rolls a sweet Caddy. I think you're thinking of the now deceased Sam Walton. And while their philosophies about money may have some overlap they definitely had some major differences that shade how people look at them.
If you are holding Buffet up as some ideal that good Russian girls will admire you may have a problem there. Even in this country there are places (RED states) where Buffet's thoughts on wealth are reviled...
Sam and Warren were and are complicated individuals. I don't know if either would escape the "greedy" moniker even if they went out with a "good" RW.
Given the debate as to what will and will not earn a normal guy the Mark of Cain with RW I can tell you the extreme behavior of those two would cheese off a lot of women.
PS Any RW reading this RED States are not what you think... actually they are quite the opposite.
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Mr. "Smith"
I sense someone has been drinking the Russia propoganda cool-aid again. In spite of the oil bubble, Russia and Russians are not anywhere close to as rich as Americans. The Forbes top 30 billionaires has 1 Russian and 13 Americans.
There are more millionaires in New Jersey than in the entire FSU. Facts can be verfied with google.
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Mr. "Smith"
I sense someone has been drinking the Russia propoganda cool-aid again. In spite of the oil bubble, Russia and Russians are not anywhere close to as rich as Americans. The Forbes top 30 billionaires has 1 Russian and 13 Americans.
There are more millionaires in New Jersey than in the entire FSU. Facts can be verfied with google.
Gawd.. who cares about millionaires or billionaires if you ain't one of them.. If so it is quite unlikely you would be here.
Bottom line, if you have somewhere around 25K under your mattress, a lot of flexible time and/or vacation and willing to part with it seeking a RW then fine. If you don't it might be best to stay at home.
The FSU guys are doing just fine with or without us. Wealthy or not hey have a 'home court' advantage and can spend a LOT more time than AM ever can playing the field for the very best catches that probably wouldn't even dream of listing themselves on an agency site. 'Pappa Portafoglio' doesn't stand a chance against them in the grand scheme of things.
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For RW not to know this is incredibly naive. To think that some guy who is spending his way to bankruptcy ... is somehow better than someone who spends with caution, is just simply hard to believe.
RW don't know this because very few have experience with debt. Until recently Russians purchased their flats with a suitcase of money. Car loans are also something recent.
If and when you do get involved with a RW, she may be surprised that you owe money on a mortgage, business loan, etc. She may think you are unworthy if you have debt. So your phrase "spending his way to bankruptcy" is not better in their eyes, it is incomprehensible and absurd.
Most RW will be happy, even if you do not have a lot of money, as long as you are spending more on your family than on yourself. If you go to the FSU and stay in an expensive hotel and do not bring perfume for her and interesting gifts for her family - you are a greedy man. If you buy yourself more expensive clothes, you are a greedy man. If you have a fancy car and buy her a used cheap one, you are a greedy man (assuming she is capable of driving without wrecking it). If you....etc.
Never forget that you are interacting with a different culture. In fact, you should not just remember it, you must respect the fact. These wonderful women are Russian (or Ukrainian or whatever) inside, and some of their ways will take a long time to change. They will be offended that you do not understand them, or at least respect their differences.
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Mr. "Smith"
I sense someone has been drinking the Russia propoganda cool-aid again. In spite of the oil bubble, Russia and Russians are not anywhere close to as rich as Americans. The Forbes top 30 billionaires has 1 Russian and 13 Americans.
There are more millionaires in New Jersey than in the entire FSU. Facts can be verfied with google.
DKMM,
I was being lighthearted in my post. I just pointed out something interesting. I took Econ in college. I know the definition of an oligarch. Have a little fun on this forum. Trust me dude if Russians were making anywhere near as much money as we do there would not be a RW market... I learned that in Econ as well.
Maybe my Goolge is broken but here is what I found...
1 Warren Buffett United States 77 62.0 United States
2 Carlos Slim Helu & family Mexico 68 60.0 Mexico
3 William Gates III United States 52 58.0 United States
4 Lakshmi Mittal India 57 45.0 United Kingdom
5 Mukesh Ambani India 50 43.0 India
6 Anil Ambani India 48 42.0 India
7 Ingvar Kamprad & family Sweden 81 31.0 Switzerland
8 KP Singh India 76 30.0 India
9 Oleg Deripaska Russia 40 28.0 Russia
10 Karl Albrecht Germany 88 27.0 Germany
11 Li Ka-shing Hong Kong 79 26.5 Hong Kong
12 Sheldon Adelson United States 74 26.0 United States
13 Bernard Arnault France 59 25.5 France
14 Lawrence Ellison United States 63 25.0 United States
15 Roman Abramovich Russia 41 23.5 Russia
16 Theo Albrecht Germany 85 23.0 Germany
17 Liliane Bettencourt France 85 22.9 France
18 Alexei Mordashov Russia 42 21.2 Russia
19 Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud Saudi Arabia 51 21.0 Saudi Arabia
20 Mikhail Fridman Russia 43 20.8 Russia
21 Vladimir Lisin Russia 51 20.3 Russia
22 Amancio Ortega Spain 72 20.2 Spain
23 Raymond, Thomas & Walter Kwok Hong Kong NA 19.9 Hong Kong
24 Mikhail Prokhorov Russia 42 19.5 Russia
25 Vladimir Potanin Russia 47 19.3 Russia
By my count besides holding the top spots on the list (along with Mexico) we got trounced by Russia.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/10/billionaires08_The-Worlds-Billionaires_Rank.html
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RW don't know this because very few have experience with debt. Until recently Russians purchased their flats with a suitcase of money.
This has changed quite rapidly. Personal debt in Russia in 2002 amounted to a few billion in 2000 and now is in the hundreds of billions. [I have to go to a dentist's appointment, but I can provide stats later.] Now, Russians get loans for just about everything: homes, cars, appliances, furniture, travel. My sister-in-law, for example, will be getting a loan so she can go on a vacation with her kids this fall. She makes a very most wage and lives in a small Russian city. She will be paying off her loan with a fair chunk of her salary. Russia has had an exponential growth in consumer credit as well as an exponential growth in customers defaulting on loans in the last couple of years.
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DKMM,
I was being lighthearted in my post. I just pointed out something interesting. I took Econ in college. I know the definition of an oligarch. Have a little fun on this forum. Trust me dude if Russians were making anywhere near as much money as we do there would not be a RW market... I learned that in Econ as well.
By my count besides holding the top spots on the list (along with Mexico) we got trounced by Russia.
This is a better indication of the concentration of wealth in the hands of a small proportion of the country's population in Russia's case than the overall wealth of the population.
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I can only give the example of the richest man in the world.
He drives a beat up car and buys his suits at discount stores.
I don't think he has given a rose to anyone ever.
He also plans to give away more than 40 billion dollars to charitable causes.
We all know who he is. His name is Warren Buffett.
There is a book " The millionaire next door " ; people who have made it are very frugal with their money. They are not onstentatious, that is for sure.
For RW not to know this is incredibly naive. To think that some guy who is spending his way to bankruptcy ( and there were two million of them last year alone) is somehow better than someone who spends with caution, is just simply hard to believe. Now these two million people actually filed for bankruptcy; the stats are that 76% of all Americans have a "negative" net worth, that is they owe more than they have. I don't think throwing around roses would be prudent for them.
Small wonder that the failure rate is so high.
ambach,
I am sure there are plenty RW that would appreciate your financial conservatism. I just hope you are not so cheap that you turn them off from the beginning and never get to know them. Face the facts that chasing RW is not a financially prudent action from the get go. And that doesn't even begin to consider the extra expenses you will incur if you should get to the point of marriage and relocation. :hairraising:
I do not want to advocate that you be anything different than you are in your every day regular life, but courting the woman of your dreams is not an everyday occurrence. Step back and see the whole picture here. You have maybe only one shot at making a favorable impression on these ladies, don't blow it by being too financially prudent (cheap).
KenC
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Yes, but don't those lists make you feel sorry for poor Bill Gates whose worth has dropped to 1/3 of what it was. At this rate he will be on the bread lines in another decade or two.
Mr Hunt was one who was famous for driving the same old beat up pickup truck for 30 years.
I recall looking at the list of richest dudes a decade ago and almost no one was on from Russia. I belive it was like two or three so they have made some amazing gains. I have a feeling much of it was by hook or crook and mostly the later.
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Hey guys,
All this conversation about the richest people and their spending habits is all very interesting but :offtopic:
Might I suggest someone start a different thread to continue your discussion so as not to sde track this thread?
KenC
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Good thread, and a lot of good points by KenC, Jet, Gator, I/O
and others. Also agree with one poster's point about not letting the
thread header detract from the main point (the WM does not have
to be some kind of macho man - just a decent, honorable gentlemen
who is capable of being a leader - from beginning to end).
Another good topic for another thread would be the inverse of
this thread: what kind of FSUW is actually cut out for immigration
and adaptation. In this regard, I am convinced that the majority of
FSUW that make themselves available for contact by WM are simply
not cut out for immigration and adaptation to another country. They
are fooling themselves. They would make very poor candidates for moving
to another country. They would be high risk for failure. Maybe another
thread could be started on this subject for discussion, identifying high risk
type FSUW for adaptation, etc.
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I am convinced that the majority of
FSUW that make themselves available for contact by WM are simply
not cut out for immigration and adaptation to another country. They
are fooling themselves. They would make very poor candidates for moving
to another country. They would be high risk for failure.
Depends on what they're expected to achieve. Minding house and kids vs. having to work full-time imply two entirely different sets of requirements. For the former, being specifically "cut out" for immigration is not such a dire necessity. For the latter, good language skills, adaptability, and learning capacity would be a must.
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Those who fled the USSR's opression, be they Russian, Ukrianian, Pole, Czech, Bulgarian, etc.. may not have been cut out for immigration but they managed to find better lives. I know older refugee couples who still barely speak our language, watch RTV most of the time and even travel back to visit old friend and relatives, but always return to the land that welcomed them of which they have become citizens.
WmGO is right in the whole. Not everyone can easily learn a foreign language. For some it takes many years just to become minimally proficient.
Many immigrant wives are simply not made of the right stuff to stick it out. At the first burst of flak, they bail out.
Immigration is a test of character most of all. Being responsible for an immigrant is also a test of character for the WM. That, more than anything is what makes someone "man enough."
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Car loans are also something recent.
In 1919 all the credit institutions were abolished by the Soviet Government, but in the 1920s the credit system was again put into bank operation. The Soviet people could buy the consumer goods and also cars on short-term or long-term credit. So the Soviets knew what a debt is :)
(Sorry for interrupting)
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Being responsible for an immigrant is also a test of character for the WM. That, more than anything is what makes someone "man enough."
Absolutely true. Ken's thread title might be provocative, but dig deeper and being "man enough" is also about having enough patience and confidence to support your fiancee or spouse through the very rough days of her (and your) adjustment following her arrival. It's not easy, not by a longshot, and if you have a quick temper or can't support her emotionally when she's down (and blaming you for all her troubles), you may not be "man enough" to succeed.
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It's not easy, not by a longshot, and if you have a quick temper or can't support her emotionally when she's down (and blaming you for all her troubles), you may not be "man enough" to succeed.
Spoken like a true veteran who chose his avatar with considered purpose.
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Sorry Sudz, you got that backazzward. No one here said that if you don't have a RW you are......... or you must be........... All that was pointed out is that there are some characteristics that some men have that make them a high risk to be successful in this venture. Don't hold us accountable for your own insecurities.
Well it aint and never will be so all Ukrainian women are safe.Damn tootin the old married bastards feel good about themselves! We know exactly how difficult this is and are proud to be in the select few that succeeded. If our confidence and sense of accomplishment intimidates you, too bad.
You are part of the American problem of "entitlement." You and others think that everyone is entitled to the same opportunities. Well, I got a news flash for you, it ain't ever gonna happen dude. There is always going to be someone smarter, richer, better looking and more charming that will have the opportunities you don't. And that goes for me too. I am so sick and tired of the American expectation of being coddled through life and when things don't go your way, the incessant whining begins. You once described your self as having "of character only envied by overcooked green beans" and wisely proclaimed "I prefer a quiet, peaceful solitary existence." It is a good thing because a guy like you would be eaten alive in the fsu. That is of course if you ever found your balls to actually go. It is far easier to sit in your Barcalounger and criticize those that went, conquered and now enjoy the fruits of their success.
KenC
LOL - did I hit a nerve, Kennie? That barrage sure covered alot of territory, but since you don't know me I can understand why the attack was so wide.
As to being "man enough" I suppose all I'd have to do is put on 100 pounds, wait 10 years, save my cash till I'm rich, practice shouting at boisterous teenagers, visit the FSU when it's in financial crisis, and, last but not least, obtain the ability to unquestionably believe every compliment thrown my way.
Let the circle jerk continue. And, btw, you might want to give your wives some small amount of credit for the success of your endeavor.
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LOL - did I hit a nerve, Kennie?
Not really. I just grow tired of the "know nothings" and "do nothings" thinking their opinion matters.
KenC
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Not really. I just grow tired of the "know nothings" and "do nothings" thinking their opinion matters.
KenC
If that's true why did you start this thread?
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As to being "man enough" I suppose all I'd have to do is put on 100 pounds, wait 10 years, save my cash till I'm rich, practice shouting at boisterous teenagers, visit the FSU when it's in financial crisis, and, last but not least, obtain the ability to unquestionably believe every compliment thrown my way.
Sudz, I missed this part of the protocal! Where can I find some teens to berate? ;)
Let the circle jerk continue. And, btw, you might want to give your wives some small amount of credit for the success of your endeavor.
Not an hour goes that I don't think about the challenges my wife faced and continues to face, and I swell with pride at her strength and courage. These thoughts are always followed by a feeling of awe that she fell in love with a bum like me. Peace :)
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Groov
May I be so bold as to point out that you are far far from being a bum. I can appreciate the humble pie here, but you are a hard working man, who had gone through hell and back to find Polina, who has shown patience beyond belief, supported your wife through all her trials and tribulations here, helped her design a web site site and find a job she likes that promotes her goals in designing, assisted her in every way possible, shown respect and understanding, provided for her and now living in a nice home of your own.
You may feel awe that she feel in love with you, but maybe SHE feels awe that she is married a man like you. Don't sell yourself short. You ARE man enough for a RW and proved it. ( that will be $5 dollars please. ) ;D
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If that's true why did you start this thread?
To try and help guys be as successful as I have been. Sudz, you can sit there and take all the pot shots you want at me, but you will still be sitting alone and I will not. The best you can come up with is that others have some advantage over you and that is why they succeed and you do not. The sad truth of the matter is that all you have to share here is your own negativity.
And, yes, the "circle jerk" will continue as my hat is off to every guy that had the stones to actually go to Russia to check things out. Even if they did not succeed in finding a woman, they at least tried. You don't even have enough motivation to even try. You better turn off your computer as I think "The View" is starting. Have a nice life, but I seriously doubt it.
KenC
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Groov
May I be so bold as to point out that you are far far from being a bum. I can appreciate the humble pie here, but you are a hard working man, who had gone through hell and back to find Polina, who has shown patience beyond belief, supported your wife through all her trials and tribulations here, helped her design a web site site and find a job she likes that promotes her goals in designing, assisted her in every way possible, shown respect and understanding, provided for her and now living in a nice home of your own.
You may feel awe that she feel in love with you, but maybe SHE feels awe that she is married a man like you. Don't sell yourself short. You ARE man enough for a RW and proved it. ( that will be $5 dollars please. ) ;D
Viking,
What a nice and honest post.
In a effort to keep the "circle jerk" going, I would like to point out that every guy here that has made a trip or two to the fsu deserves major kudos too. Like you too Viking. How easy could it be to sit on your azz and say that others are lucky or rich or ...... to explain away all your efforts without any lady by your side yet? You Sir have the tenacity to continue to try. :applaud: And you follow a long list of men here at RWD that never gave up hope. Guys like Groov, Bruce, Son of Clyde and the Hall of Famer for sheer tenacity Turboguy! My efforts in this venture pale in comparason to what these men went through. There was a lot of stumbling and bumbling along the way, but these men stuck with it until they found their match. And that my friends is why I am here and start threads like this one. To maybe eliminate some of the stumbling and bumbling in an effort to make the chosen path of these good men a little easier.
When some here throw stones and accuse me of promoting a clique or a club like atmosphere, they are right. The guys that tried, keep trying or have already succeeded deserve all the accolades I can give them. It is not surprising that it is usually the ones on the outside looking in that throw the stones. :wallbash:
KenC
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I've noticed some people seem to like to argue with KenC, but I have to say that he's started some of the most active, interesting and (to me) valuable threads on this board. He was also the first member to directly PM me when I joined, with nothing but encouragement and advice.
I assume his gruff exterior is due to growing up a Lions fan :P
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I've noticed some people seem to like to argue with KenC, but I have to say that he's started some of the most active, interesting and (to me) valuable threads on this board. He was also the first member to directly PM me when I joined, with nothing but encouragement and advice.
I assume his gruff exterior is due to growing up a Lions fan :P
Thanks Myrddin,
I actually laughed out loud on your Lions comment! (But I did get to watch Barry Sanders every Sunday back in the day)
KenC
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Viking,
What a nice and honest post.
In a effort to keep the "circle jerk" going, I would like to point out that every guy here that has made a trip or two to the fsu deserves major kudos too. Like you too Viking. How easy could it be to sit on your azz and say that others are lucky or rich or ...... to explain away all your efforts without any lady by your side yet? You Sir have the tenacity to continue to try. Applaud And you follow a long list of men here at RWD that never gave up hope. Guys like Groov, Bruce, Son of Clyde and the Hall of Famer for sheer tenacity Turboguy! My efforts in this venture pale in comparison to what these men went through. There was a lot of stumbling and bumbling along the way, but these men stuck with it until they found their match. And that my friends is why I am here and start threads like this one. To maybe eliminate some of the stumbling and bumbling in an effort to make the chosen path of these good men a little easier.
When some here throw stones and accuse me of promoting a clique or a club like atmosphere, they are right. The guys that tried, keep trying or have already succeeded deserve all the accolades I can give them. It is not surprising that it is usually the ones on the outside looking in that throw the stones. Wall Bash
KenC
What a load of crock. Just so I truly understand this post, we (men who searched in the FSU) are supposedly better than 99.9 % of the men in America, because we choose to search for a wife in the FSU? We deserve congratulation because we went on a search?
I must say, this is the most Egotistical, and arrogant post I have ever seen you post ken.
Quote from: vwrw on May 17, 2008, 12:06:47 PM
In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen; to reinforce it independently from validity of the claim and to make the claim to be a strong belief through repeated assertion.
In a consequence use the fabricated belief as a confirmation that married RWD’s members are superior ones.
Sorry that you have such a negative outlook on the motivation behind this thread. You could not be futher from the truth however. As I already stated:
Quote from: KenC on May 17, 2008, 09:30:37 AM
I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks) What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu? Why shouldn't we warn them? I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance. If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it. But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
KenC
When some here throw stones and accuse me of promoting a clique or a club like atmosphere, they are right. The guys that tried, keep trying or have already succeeded deserve all the accolades I can give them.
So now ken what is it, you are trying to make a clique , or are you trying to help other? Because clique want to keep other out. And they try keep others out to make themselves feel superior, exactly as you did in this post.
Are you man enough for a RW?
As VWRW pointed out so early on, this topic of yours, You are trying to make an even smaller clique, and hence wanted it to be viewed as superior of men married to FSUW.
And as a preemptive strike, I fully expect ken to try use an Argumentum ad hominem to try change the view of why he made this thread.
HiTech
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What a load of crock. Just so I truly understand this post, we (men who searched in the FSU) are supposedly better than 99.9 % of the men in America, because we choose to search for a wife in the FSU? We deserve congratulation because we went on a search?
I must say, this is the most Egotistical, and arrogant post I have ever seen you post ken.
Sorry you feel that way. I never said that we are better than 99.9%. I don't see where you got that. I never even said "better." What I did say is that there are certain characteristics that help men become successful in this venture and that there are others that tend to be counter productive.
So now ken what is it, you are trying to make a clique , or are you trying to help other? Because clique want to keep other out. And they try keep others out to make themselves feel superior, exactly as you did in this post.
As VWRW pointed out so early on, this topic of yours, You are trying to make an even smaller clique, and hence wanted it to be viewed as superior of men married to FSUW.
I do not see where showing homage to those that have been successful or even tried is a conflict with trying to help others. Those are not mutually exclusive. As a matter of fact, if the newbies sincerely study those that have been successful here, they would learn an awful lot IMO.
And as a preemptive strike, I fully expect ken to try use an Argumentum ad hominem to try change the view of why he made this thread.
HiTech
And just why is it you think my presenting my views countering your claims is wrong?
KenC
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Whatever theory, side, aspect, prognosis, result, ability, success, race or failure involved in your RW seeking venture, one thing is sure.. You are NUTS!
Yes, we are not better, wiser, more capable, or any other factor.. just all NUTS!
Get used to it and accept that you and your fellow members here, men and women, without exclusion and/or exception, are absolutely NUTS!
.. so don't expect anything more, or less from any member here.
- these are probably the wisest words I have ever written.
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these are probably the wisest words I have ever written.
Not bad for some one who is nuts like I am.
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...accept that you and your fellow members here, men and women, without exclusion and/or exception, are absolutely NUTS!
- these are probably the wisest words I have ever written.
My friends have said for years that I am nuts. And now RWD OMB's say I am nuts.
Looking at how my comfortable bachelor life has changed in the last month as a newlywed with two young kids running around the house - all of you are probably correct.
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I relish and embrace this particular brand of insanity. The thought of going back to the outside world is definitely a most depressing thought. If the "huddled masses" ever found out how great it is in here they would all be pounding on the door of our asylum trying to get in.
Better to keep it as our little secret...
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I relish and embrace this particular brand of insanity. The thought of going back to the outside world is definitely a most depressing thought. If the "huddled masses" ever found out how great it is in here they would all be pounding on the door of our asylum trying to get in.
Better to keep it as our little secret...
One of the biggest compliments my father ever paid me, came at our wedding when he said "I envy you. You have lived an incredibly romantic life. It doesn't mean things were always good, but it was always exciting! When you were a boy, I could have never dreamed that we'd be standing here today celebrating your marriage to such a wonderful woman. You're like the Indiana Jones of the family". Considering everything my father has been through in his life, and all that he has accomplished (not the least of which being able to stay happily married to my mom for 44 years, after a true "one week wonder" type proposal in 1963) for him to be envious, was just astonishing to me.
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One of the biggest compliments my father ever paid me, came at our wedding when he said "I envy you. You have lived an incredibly romantic life. It doesn't mean things were always good, but it was always exciting! When you were a boy, I could have never dreamed that we'd be standing here today celebrating your marriage to such a wonderful woman. You're like the Indiana Jones of the family". Considering everything my father has been through in his life, and all that he has accomplished (not the least of which being able to stay happily married to my mom for 44 years, after a true "one week wonder" type proposal in 1963) for him to be envious, was just astonishing to me.
What a wonderful story, Jet. How cool for your Father to say such things! The adventurous spirit certainly is necessary. And that goes both ways too. The women need it maybe even more than the man in this case.
Most of my family just thought "There goes Ken again!" thinking I was nuts. But then again, I have had a lifetime of thinking outside the box. I have two brothers and they would be the absolute worst candidates for this ever. My older brother would never give this a second thought as he is as conservative as they come. My younger bro would be eaten alive by the first shark he met as he has a long history of being used by women.
But really the only opinions that mattered to me was those of my kids. Fortunately they have had a lifetime with me to understand that I am not a conventional thinker. They were both kind of leary when I started dating AW that I met on line, but after a while understood and accepted the concept. We all had some long intense conversations back then. Funny how they both have "My Space" pages now. :D It really wasn't too much of a shock to either of them when I went to Russia to meet Lena. Now bringing Lena over was a whole other thing! :hairraising: Of course they also knew better than to try and talk the old man out of his plan too. They now know it doesn't really matter how you meet but how you interact after meeting.
KenC
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They now know it doesn't really matter how you meet but how you interact after meeting.
KenC
It is sad that there is still a stigma attached to meeting someone via the net, even though it is a growing phenomenon. Where else are you supposed to meet people? Why should meeting someone online be any worse than going to a nightclub?
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It is sad that there is still a stigma attached to meeting someone via the net, even though it is a growing phenomenon. Where else are you supposed to meet people? Why should meeting someone online be any worse than going to a nightclub?
Misha,
You're preaching to the choir here.
I think most of the stigma of meeting locally "on line" has dissipated over time. With the "E Harmony" and the "My Space" sights gaining such popularity. Now ten years ago when I was doing it, it was considered very odd. Of course, meeting foreigners is still quite unusual. I think the real "stigma" attached to this is the MOB angle, not that it is perpitrated via the Net.
KenC
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I think the real "stigma" attached to this is the MOB angle
A little bit of the history about "shipping the brides" :)
New Orleans
ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW ORLEANS (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11005b.htm)
From the beginning of the colony at Biloxi the immigration of women had been small. Bienville made constant appeals to the mother country to send honest wives and mothers. From time to time ships freighted with girls would arrive; they came over in charge of the Grey Nuns of Canada and a priest, and were sent by the king to be married to the colonists.
The Bishop of Quebec was also charged with the duty of sending out young women who were known to be good and virtuous. As a proof of her respectability, each girl was furnished by the bishop with a curiously wrought casket; they are known in Louisiana history as "casket girls". Each band of girls, on arriving at New Orleans, was confided to the care of the Ursulines until they were married to colonists able to provide for their support. Many of the best families of the state are proud to trace their descent from "casket girls".
Casket girl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casket_girl)
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I think the real "stigma" attached to this is the MOB angle, not that it is perpitrated via the Net.
Where I live, it is a generational thing. People in their twenties and thirties see it as simply another way to know people, people in their forties and older still look down on the concept. My wife has been warned by her Russian friends that it is better not to tell anybody that we met by internet.
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Ahh insanity, the perfect defense! Now I can explain away why I followed up a failed engagement to a RW with another trip to FSU to find a new one!
Worst of all, I used a straight up marriage agency. Only for losers and misfits trying to "buy" a wife, right? :P
BTW I tell everyone I know not to do this, its far harder to have a relationship this way. I got very lucky.
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Ahh insanity, the perfect defense! Now I can explain away why I followed up a failed engagement to a RW with another trip to FSU to find a new one!
Worst of all, I used a straight up marriage agency. Only for losers and misfits trying to "buy" a wife, right? :P
BTW I tell everyone I know not to do this, its far harder to have a relationship this way. I got very lucky.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Maybe I should have titled the thread:
Are you crazy enough to seek a RW?
KenC
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:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Maybe I should have titled the thread:
Are you crazy enough to seek a RW?
KenC
Would have been quite appropriate.. LOL
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I agree! :)
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And then there is the flip side of the coin:
What kind of Russian Woman would be crazy enough to marry us! :)
I'm mighty thankful I found one...
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Same- crazy women. :D
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When you throw on the language and cultural differences its like everything is 10 times harder. You really do have to be "man enough" for a RW I really believe that. Perhaps that's what turned some of these guys into crusty old men hehe.
Any of you ever think you are having an argument/fight only to have it turn out to be something completely else? Or have a conversation about something and you realize a minute into it she's talking about some other thing rather than what you thought you heard. Maybe that only comes with the initial phases of these relationships (especially the long distance portion).
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When you throw on the language and cultural differences its like everything is 10 times harder. You really do have to be "man enough" for a RW I really believe that. Perhaps that's what turned some of these guys into crusty old men hehe.
Any of you ever think you are having an argument/fight only to have it turn out to be something completely else? Or have a conversation about something and you realize a minute into it she's talking about some other thing rather than what you thought you heard. Maybe that only comes with the initial phases of these relationships (especially the long distance portion).
Regularly.......quite entertaining really
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When you throw on the language and cultural differences its like everything is 10 times harder. You really do have to be "man enough" for a RW I really believe that. Perhaps that's what turned some of these guys into crusty old men hehe.
Any of you ever think you are having an argument/fight only to have it turn out to be something completely else? Or have a conversation about something and you realize a minute into it she's talking about some other thing rather than what you thought you heard. Maybe that only comes with the initial phases of these relationships (especially the long distance portion).
DKMM,
I'll share a little trick Lena and I used in the first years of our marriage. We were constantly getting into little disagreements or one or the other's feeling were getting hurt. It was all the language barrier. Lena spoke very good English but the nuances or tone of a new language takes many years to truly understand. We both knew we loved and respected each other and yet these things kept popping up. We both decided if we were hurt, offended or angered by something the other said, we would stop and ask for a clarification before reacting.. 99 times out of 100 it was a misinterpretation of what was meant. You need to give a lot of benefit of the doubt in the beginning.
KenC
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DKMM,
I'll share a little trick Lena and I used in the first years of our marriage. We were constantly getting into little disagreements or one or the other's feeling were getting hurt. It was all the language barrier. Lena spoke very good English but the nuances or tone of a new language takes many years to truly understand. We both knew we loved and respected each other and yet these things kept popping up. We both decided if we were hurt, offended or angered by something the other said, we would stop and ask for a clarification before reacting.. 99 times out of 100 it was a misinterpretation of what was meant. You need to give a lot of benefit of the doubt in the beginning.
KenC
This is a very, very good idea. But one that I haven't practiced enough with various FSU gals that I have known.
However, I remember one instance when I did try to get a clarification of something which peeeed me off pretty good. In the clarification that the gal gave, I am pretty sure she switched her meaning quite a bit to back off from the meaning that had ticked me.
As a result, I was still sort of left in the dark about what her true feelings really were. So it could be sort of a double edged sword.
Still, in most cases, I think Ken's tactic would serve everyone well.
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When I heard an older Ukrainian couple in Costco speaking in Russian in 2002, I approached them and began practicing my Russian on them. Curious why I was learning Russian I told them I was engaged in a quest to find a wife in the FSU. "They're all actresses" the woman said. (actually using the Russian word "artists").
Doll has told us that the women who marry us tell us what we want to hear, then when our back is turned, talk truth to other RW.
We have a Russian couple staying with us this weekend. This morning at breakfast the husband (who has become a USC and now thinks of himself as American) and I were discussing how deceiving someone to gain an advantage is considered clever in eastern cultures. In the west it's the deceiver who is the wrong-doer but in the east it's the deceived who is the fool.
I say, anyone who gains something by deception will lose it and more eventually.
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99 times out of 100 it was a misinterpretation of what was meant. You need to give a lot of benefit of the doubt in the beginning.
KenC
But KenC, it's the other 1% we want to hear about. :cheesygrin:
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Ronnie, that's exactly the problem!! Misunderstandings happen a lot more because we are trying to protect ourselves. Sometimes I get to wondering if she's just trying to decieve me in some way. And that gets in the way of trust.. but its hard when dealing with RW. If you are apart for a while it gets harder.
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how deceiving someone to gain an advantage is considered clever in eastern cultures
I wouldn't go for this statement. This NOT true about eastern cultures.
You need to be more careful- here there are Russians and this IS offensive.
Don't you think so?
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Russia is sytemically corrupt. Does that fact also offend? These statements come from my Russian friends but they are well known if not often spoken.
Corruption and deception breed and flourish in the dark. Let's admit what is. The more our ills have sunlight shown on them, the better the chance they will heal.
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You were talking of eastern European cultures or something like that.
You said deception was typical for these cultures.It IS an offense, lets leave the governments alone.
I just don't like what you said about culture.
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This is a very, very good idea. But one that I haven't practiced enough with various FSU gals that I have known.
However, I remember one instance when I did try to get a clarification of something which peeeed me off pretty good. In the clarification that the gal gave, I am pretty sure she switched her meaning quite a bit to back off from the meaning that had ticked me.
As a result, I was still sort of left in the dark about what her true feelings really were. So it could be sort of a double edged sword.
Still, in most cases, I think Ken's tactic would serve everyone well.
Pike,
This method served us well because we had established a sense of love and trust. As you indicate, if it is a new relationship, this method does allow the other person to back track a bit. Which on the surface is OK unless the person is just attempting to say what you want to hear.
KenC
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99 times out of 100 it was a misinterpretation of what was meant. You need to give a lot of benefit of the doubt in the beginning.
KenC
But KenC, it's the other 1% we want to hear about. :cheesygrin:
In those cases. Lena was just wrong! :ROFL:
KenC
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You were talking of eastern European cultures or something like that.
You said deception was typical for these cultures.It IS an offense, lets leave the governments alone.
I just don't like what you said about culture.
The system doesn't stop at the government. FSU citizens pay bribes at the rate of 10-13% of their incomes. The don't just bribe the government, they bribe the hiring manager at the bank to get a job, etc.
I don't like that Americans are considered overweight but facts are facts. Hiding from them doesn't make them disappear.
Further, for men to understand the environment from which the RW come can only help him to understand her better. A normally honest person can become less so through the process of rationalization.
If he judges her by western standards, especially in the area of candor and honesty, he will feel frustrated and think he has chosen unwisely. She simply must have time to adjust her perception of such things to fit western culture.
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In those cases. Lena was just wrong! :ROFL:
KenC
If Lena reads this, you are going to have another one of those 1% moments. :zappedhim:
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You were talking of eastern European cultures or something like that.
You said deception was typical for these cultures.It IS an offense, lets leave the governments alone.
I just don't like what you said about culture.
I'm with Ronnie on this one.
It's not just the government that is corrupt. It's the culture that fosters an environment of corruption. It persists because the populace goes along with it.
I also agree with Ronnie that every culture has its weak points, and I agree with him that the trend of obesity in America is embarassing. But there's no point in denying it. Hey, we have fat people everywhere here, that's just the way we are.
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The system doesn't stop at the government. FSU citizens pay bribes at the rate of 10-13% of their incomes. The don't just bribe the government, they bride the hiring manager at the bank to get a job, etc.
Ronnie,
Would you mind referencing the 10-13% stat you quote above... I love stats... I just love them more when they are facts! ;)
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Are you crazy enough to seek a RW?
while i know why kenC titled his thread this way..
THAT would be a far more accurate and appropriate thread title.
sudz-
While i understand you lashing back a bit..
you were certainly generalizing as much as the next guy..
not everyone married to another nationalty ,( RW) is overweight, rich ,balding or any of
the stereotypes you were spitting out.
Most of us OMB's give 99% of the credit , to our wives !
who in not all, but most of the cases, made the huge sacrifices and endured much more hardships in relocation language etc.
as far as the thread..
it more defines the fact that you have to be completely nuts to do this.LOL
or at least typically have a certain mindset, or adventerous /risk taking spirit.
that doesnt make anyone *better,,or worse*
it just likely makes them crazier and a bit more adventerous than thier neighbor
one thing i think this process does for a lot of guys that are shy, introverts,
or what have you.
it gives them a way, or an intiative , to get the fug off the couch and meet someone.
if they want to change something in thier lives, repaetying thier daily routine likely isnt going to do it.
hey the outcome may be good or bad.
but thats life in general.
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I'm with Ronnie on this one.
And I am NOT (being Russian BTW).
Then what are you doing here- on a "Russian women" board?
Seeking for deceving wives? ???
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The system doesn't stop at the government. FSU citizens pay bribes at the rate of 10-13% of their incomes. The don't just bribe the government, they bride the hiring manager at the bank to get a job, etc.
Ronnie I was thinking about your earlier post this afternoon as the operations manager for a local shopping mall was regaling me with the tale of his fantastic recent trip to Orlando which had been entirely sponsored by the mall's "preferred" roofing and asphalt contractors, and trying to discretely suggest that my company has the "opportunity" to position ourselves as the preferred General Contractor, and depending on our level of generosity perhaps he could arrange to extend that designation to some or all of the management company's properties in the S. FL area.
:puke:
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Ronnie,
Would you mind referencing the 10-13% stat you quote above... I love stats... I just love them more when they are facts! ;)
Sorry Kuna, You're right, I should have posted a reference.
http://www.transparency.org/news_room/latest_news/press_releases/2005/09_12_2005_barometer_2005
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Ronnie I was thinking about your earlier post this afternoon as the operations manager for a local shopping mall was regaling me with the tale of his fantastic recent trip to Orlando which had been entirely sponsored by the mall's "preferred" roofing and asphalt contractors, and trying to discretely suggest that my company has the "opportunity" to position ourselves as the preferred General Contractor, and depending on our level of generosity perhaps he could arrange to extend that designation to some or all of the management company's properties in the S. FL area.
:puke:
The United States is not where it should be on the corruption list. People who come as immigrants from highly corrupt countries cannot immediately shed deeply ingrained attitudes. It's no coincidence perhaps that New Zealand, least corrupt country has the most restrictive immigration policies.
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And I am NOT (being Russian BTW).
Then what are you doing here- on a "Russian women" board?
Seeking for deceving wives? ???
Maybe I'm confused (it happens more frequently as I age) but I thought it was you who said that RW wives don't say (to their AM husbands) 90% of what they think and when the get together... I think your word was
d....a .....m.....n.!
Now, were you teasing us for our foolishness for marrying RW or were you being critical of their deceptive tendencies. Now, you seem to be in denial of what you posted.
If it wasn't you, then I apologize in advance. I'm too lazy to seach for the comment and it may have been in another thread.
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Doll, if you are Russian perhaps we should distinguish levels of corruption in terms you will readily understand.
1- What Jet has described might fit the catagory of блат (blat) so common in not only Russia but many societies as a form (non-cash) of using friends/favours/family/acquaintances to get ahead, land a job, or gain an advantage. In western slang we use the expression "good ole boy network."
2- Direct bribes (взятка) of cash is something very common in Russia but not in most western countries. I can be stopped for speeding in Moscow and offered a "choice" of how to take care of the fine (either cash or municipal system). If I desire lower property taxes on our Moscow home, a well-placed envelope to the proper official can effect a sufficient "adjustment" of the monies owed. If vandals are raiding our river dacha in winter, I can slide an envelope across a desk to the proper official at the local мили́ция office and the problem will be handled.
According to PRAVDA, the average bribe for a business person was $23,000 (USD) in 2001 but had risen to $135,000 (USD) by 2005. Here is the link: http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/88/351/16339_corruption.html
3- To open a new business or accept a new high profile job, of course one would need a "roof" (крыша) to 'cover' me. Likely one can choose the 'roof' from one of several sources. They will "take care" of me as long as agreed upon payments are on schedule. In most cases there will be three choices for a good 'roof:' A branch of government (federal, regional, city, etc depending on how high my roof needs go), a branch of the mafia, or a branch of law enforcement (the level of which will again depend on how "high the roof" needs to be.)
Now I'll offer a few observations:
A) It's striking that two of my three likely choices will be "official." The two would be some branch of government or a branch of law enforcement. It renders the term "law enforcement" as sort of silly, doesn't it?
B) If I slip $100 to a Western police officer who has stopped me for speeding, I will go to jail for attempted bribery. I'd also be arrested for the envelope to the tax adjuster or the police chief also.
C) And in the case of the "roof" (крыша), in the West all three choices would be in jail soon after such a bribe was revealed. A local prosecutor has the power to arrest and hold any official, even to the highest levels if a crime has been committed. Unlike Russia where a local prosecuter could never arrest a governor or federal official without Kremlin approval, such approval is simply not needed in the West.
D) The West allows a free and independent media for such reasons. And a free media would report such crimes with passion. However, with both Misters Putin and Medvedev enjoying positions as significant shareholders in Russia's three largest media companies (Channel One, Russia TV, and Gazprom's NTV....each of which include television, radio, print and internet outlets), the chances of the media blowing the whistle in Russia are slim to none.
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mendeleyev, initially we were talking of FSU culture and somebody said that in this culture deceit is a virtue. It was about RW lying to their American husbands.
I don't want to go for any level of corruption in Russia as we are talking personal relationship. So in this regard the remark about culture is an offence. What was very funny - the touching testimony about fat people.
Come on guys, it is about apples and oranges.
So I didn't get the answer- if somebody is sure RW are about the deceit then why are they seeking for marriage in Russia?
Thank you, mendeleyev, anyway for refreshing course but I knew it long ago- before you were born. :D :D :D :D :D :D
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So I didn't get the answer- if somebody is sure RW are about the deceit then why are they seeking for marriage in Russia?
Well, I wouldn't say that that Russian culture and RW (and RM) are about deceit. Some of my dearest friends are Russian and I really enjoy spending time in Russia. There are wonderful Russian people and there are some Russians that I would prefer to stay away from. What I deplore are the generalizations, good and bad. Saying that Russian women are all deceitful as this is their culture is no more accurate that putting all RW on a pedestal saying that they are infinitely superior to AW or other women. I try not to make sweeping judgments, but focus on individuals. Are they honest or deceitful? Again, you do not marry all RW, you marry one woman. You have to know whether she is honest or deceitful. The rest does not really matter.
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I will disagree with you though, AJ, because to me it is all about being the man. Or at least demanding that you are accounted for. ;) It all centers around your own self worth IMO. I know you well enough to know you spoil the heck out of your wife as do I. But we do not do so at the expense of selling ourselves short either. Too many men in Maxx's stories have no sense of self worth. If you don't think you deserve the respect yourself, who else is going to give it to you?
KenC
I just had to comment on this as I had a very similar episode in Moscow while courting my wife several years ago. At the time I was angry and willing to just walk away, which I did. She looked all over for me and after some tears everything was back to normal. In the aftermath I wasn't all that proud of my behavior as it seemed a bit childish. But no matter how much you love your gf/fiancee, it's only human to test each others' limits, particularly at the beginning of the relationship.
I was mindful that if the situation was reversed any time after she arrived, I'd get my just revenge, but so far so good - perhaps we got tired of that limits-testing thing :)
Not to drag Maxx's tortured men into this again, but I'd agree w/Ken's assessment. Your wife can be the center of your universe, but excusing behaviors that demean you while crawling back to more is bound to put any relationship into a downward spiral.
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I think you have to have two strong willed individuals in order to be successful at a cross-cultural marriage. This does not mean being over bearing or controlling in any way. The man has to be strong enough to deal with all the trials and issues that are coming (USCIS, culture shock, home sickness, etc.) and the woman has to be strong enough to work through all these issues from her side to get to that place where she is comfortable (or reasonably so) to live in a place where everything is basically opposite to the world she has known her whole life.
For any success that my wife and I have to date the credit goes 99.5% to her. The fact that she puts up with my grumpy PIA self proves that she has the strength to do just about anything! :)
Part of the reason, IMO, we have some serious head butting here at RWD is because of these strong personality types. Aside from a few "wild ride" threads the membership here does a damn fine job of voicing their opinions and disagreements while still maintaining respect for the opposing opinions and the members who have them.
FWIW
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I'm sorry if Doll is offended. I really am.
But, she and we understand that the culture there is demonstrably and indisputably corrupt. On that I see no disagreement.
Doll wants to seperate the system from the culture. I don't know how that can be done. The two are bound to each other by centuries of practice.
No one is saying that all RW are dishonest and corrupt. Certainly we can agree that a large number are dishonest and corrupt...certainly a larger number than one can find in western culture. It's a marvel to me how many emerge from that ethical cesspool with barely a taint on them. But the taint is unavoidably and understandably present.
The test is how easily and how quickly that taint can be erased. For many it's a lost cause, deception seems a congenital trait. Others come to the west and feel a breath of fresh air - air they've been longing breathe their entire lives.
FSUW ethics, as with our own, are not either black or white. Deceptiveness can be measured in degrees. I believe one of the challenges for WM is to sort out those FSUW who will be eager to retrain their ethical world view from those who will ever see the west as a bountiful field of suckers.
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Ronnie,
You know for years now I have heard about the Russian "white lies" and the "ethical cesspool" of the fsu, but I have to tell you that my wife's family is the most ethically moral and principaled group of people I have ever met. I am sure they are the exception and not the rule. But they would be exceptional people in any society. They are honest to a fault, if you know what I mean.
I will say that the many many Russians I have come to know over the years, usually do fall into the catagories you describe here. Including my own family members!
KenC
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Thank you, mendeleyev, anyway for refreshing course but I knew it long ago- before you were born.
Doll, my dear, I didn't realize you were so aged! Its nice to have someone else well past 50 on this forum. Perhaps we can start our own "senior" section. :D
If you read carefully you'll notice that my post did not pretend to teach you new information. My words indicated that you already knew. But I'm glad you enjoyed the refresher course.
Nonetheless, as Ronnie so aptly points out, it is nigh impossible to divorce environment from practice. To use a couple of examples: We Orthodox understand that our systematic theology directs and determines our practical theology (how we practice faith is determined by what we believe). Or we could use medicine as an example. What a doctor believes about the theories of medicine will determine how she practices medicine.
The same in valid in relation to culture and personal virtue. We could safely say that most Asians eat rice. Are there some who don't? Well, of course! But that doesn't take away from the fact that we can very safely paint with a very broad stroke and say that most Asians eat rice. The old expression is that "it is the exception which proves the rule (norm)."
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It can be noted from some of the postings in this thread that some FSU people get upset at the words used in comments posted by Ronnie, and backed up by Mendeleyev and others. You simply cannot separate the culture from the system. And it takes very strong individuals to break away from the norm. Probably many of the FSU wives of the men here and their relatives are those who have broken away from the norm.
One of the interesting things I have noticed is that people within a system often do not notice the problems that are readily apparent to others. When you live within a system, it looks normal to you.
For instance, all westerners readily notice the low level of service rendered in FSU countries. But when I comment on this low service to my FSU business colleagues, they profess to not understand what I am talking about. To them, it is the normal service, so it is not low, it is normal.
Another interesting, and quite shocking to me, situation relates to the various forms of cheating that goes on in the University system in FSU. The most egregious form is payment for better grades than earned, payment for indication of course completion when no completion occurred, and even payment for complete diplomas.
Less serious perhaps is payment for someone to do homework assignments. One of the finest FSU persons that I know is now a high school teacher. But she quite blithely told me that she earned extra money while in graduate school by doing homework assignments for undergraduate students. She would never keep an extra kopek if it were mistakenly given to her by a clerk, but she sees nothing wrong with earning the money for doing the homework assignments because . . . "it is done all the time." It is the norm for her society, so she cannot fathom that it is terrible in my eyes.
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Are there certain types of men or certain personalities of men that should not get involved with this process?
It has long been said here that RW are not for everyone. I have always maintained that men with little or no dating skills should avoid this process as the possibility for them to be eaten by sharks is just too great. Your thoughts?
KenC
For sure the pursuit of Russian women is not for everyone
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A quote I really like is "RW are not for entry level dating." (think this was from jb) which, to me anyway, sums it all up in a nutshell.
The following are all intertwined but here are a few things that will paint a big red target on your forehead:
- Weak personality type
- Lack of self confidence
- Submissiveness
- Indecisiveness
- Prone to depression or mood problems
- Lack of patience
Plenty of other things could be added here. It all boils down to: if a man is not comfortable in his own skin and has a lack of social skills he's better off sticking with the local scene.
FWIW
There is a local homely librarian or a near sited cashier at the supermarket who isn't too fat that
has decent character that would be glad to have you and would be fine to marry. Going after a
hot Russian woman, is pure folly for the inexperienced.
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I was inexperienced at dating as I hadn't done it since before I married my first wife 100 years or so ago.
Didn't seem like a big problem for me to begin dating several FSU gals on my first WMVM trip.
I was even not ever scammed . . . at least out of cash.
But probably a few were just wanting a meal at an upscale restaurant.
However I was completely at ease with all women (from teenaged students, to secretaries, to high level bankers and lawyers) as I had worked with them for 100 years or so.
My now FSU wife keeps making me prove I am man enough for her by forcing me to regularly have sex . . . and forcing me to renovate a house.
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I was inexperienced at dating as I hadn't done it since before I married my first wife 100 years or so ago.
Didn't seem like a big problem for me to begin dating several FSU gals on my first WMVM trip.
I was even not ever scammed . . . at least out of cash.
But probably a few were just wanting a meal at an upscale restaurant.
However I was completely at ease with all women (from teenaged students, to secretaries, to high level bankers and lawyers) as I had worked with them for 100 years or so.
My now FSU wife keeps making me prove I am man enough for her by forcing me to regularly have sex . . . and forcing me to renovate a house.
The reference is for those who live in their mothers basement, never traveled outside the
US, never had a passport and only had sex with their right hand. Some of those types,
believe that they could go to Russia and be successful.
I had two boys join the Navy. I told both of them as teenagers that the Navy would have
an entirely different idea what clean looked and smelled like. When I saw them again, they
told me I was 100% right.
The service is like a finishing school for young men. After 4 years a young man knows
what clean is, how to shine their shoes, tie a tie, show up on time, how to wait, stand
up straight and making stupid/lame excuses won't fly in real life.
You joined the Navy, traveled a bit, cohabitated with your wife and didn't sponge off
your mother. You went to school and got a couple degrees. You had nothing in common
with a Mommy's basement boy.
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There's a few interesting points made in the first page of this thread even so many years later. It's nice to see some members when the cogs were still turning around upstairs also.
I can see where Beel got the mantra about FSW aren't for entry level daters, from that jb guy apparently. While there might be some truth in that I think it is overcooked. Some guys may just be unsuitable for women in their own country, US, UK women, etc but more better suited to FSW. They may get a better grasp over time of interacting with FSW or they fall short for a Western Woman but not a FSW. Let's face it many WW have a high opinion of what they want in a guy these days. There are also other issues now such as Career Women, Feminists, Fat Women, Mentally Crazy Women, etc in the West, that keep a lot of men that would usually be suitable out of dating. If anything there is nothing wrong with dating out in the FSU just to do dating as it's way easier to get dates than back home.
After all, why would it be? It's just another human male that is dating a female, same as anywhere you try to get to grips with it along the way. Either you do or you don't but you can easily just date women there just to get the experience, learn and/or have fun dating. Our Beefarmuh could be on a flight now with just that idea in mind to have fun dating in a area where women would be motivated and readily willing to date right now. Instead of sitting at home tapping away on his keyboard to some woman penpal like, just think of all the women he could get with! So much more fun!!!
After all, not every woman you meet in the FSU needs to be a marriage prospect even though they might meet hopeful of that.
As to the question itself I think it depends on the FSW'S personality and the WM's personality. A WM might not be right for many FSW but possibly right for a few of them. Since all FSW will vary a bit in terms of personality and the way their assertiveness etc is. Some FSW might just come across as sheer unpleasantness where others with an assertive personality may come across even a bit amusing when in such a mood.
I don't think you have to have been in the Army to be many enough but at least not being a drip is probably best when dating FSW.
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I think the situation is also important. If you went out to Ukraine in the few years before the virus & war hit then you would likely have a lot less choice and scope than you would today. You would have to brave going into a war torn country but once there they're would be a lot more women coming flocking to you. If you got a hottie and she started giving you some attitude rather than being fearful of messing it up/p*ssing her off you know that you could ditch her and get another hottie within a short period of time without sweating it. So WM can afford to have a lot stronger stance in such situations as a result and get onto a good thing more easily. I know if things went south with my current girl then I could go out there and be meeting a series of promising girls almost right away. At the moment the best time to score out there is now I reckon whilst there is little competition around from other WM.
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the absolute BEST thing USA/Israeli military taught me
was how to live in an environment that pushes you beyound your physical and mental limits
this gives you the ability to DO THINGS that you wouldn't be able to normally do (like LEAVE HOME TRENCH!!)
and once you have this ability, and you're no longer in the military
then this new found ability is YOURS to use as you please
and you can do yur own "difficult things", secure in the knowledge THAT YOU CAN!!!
YOU are now the Captain of your fate, and not the military
and you can command yourself to "go over the top"
instead of sittin on your ass
the Israeli military was the most physically brutal, designed to break a recruit
you HAVE to learn how to adapt and survive it/tolerate the pain w/o complaint and this is the whole point of them torturing you this way
In Israel, you have no choice but to serve and from an early age (I started in high school)....
In USA you have to enlist...
in Israel, if yur smart, you can steer yourself into a "sweet spot" in terms of what kinda duty you got and where and with whom
like Unit 8200
and live "LARGE"
when I was a teenager in Israel and wore my uniform, MILFS would fight over who was gonna take me home for a home cooked meal....
but the magic all went away when I got older and was no longer that "sweet innocent lookin boy"
becuz of what I'd become....
my oldest daughter and her husband left Israel just a few months before Oct 7
she had a cushy "technical" interpreter job for the IDF(Hebrew,Russian,English) while finishing her University Degree
all the young people livin with me now are tryin to avoid the "draft" in either Israel or Russia while finishin their education in the USA...
and I'm like their "Hippy DAD" that they live with
not the life I had planned for
but not bad either
my daughter is an AMAZING cook!!!!
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If you got a hottie and she started giving you some attitude rather than being fearful of messing it up/p*ssing her off you know that you could ditch her and get another hottie within a short period of time without sweating it.
Congratulations, you have firmly established yourself as a Mommy's basement dweller
without social skills, unable to date and you are going to attract the wrong type of
woman. You are exactly the type that will fail at this.
Additionally, you have previously established yourself as Not Brave, so there is a zero percent
chance that you will be in Ukraine sorting through any hotties.
Newbies should start at the beginning of the thread and ignore Trench in anything he posted.
He either got it wrong or 100% backwards.
PS. I hate beating up Trench, it's just he could read a recipe for a peanut butter sandwich
and not understand that he needed peanut butter (or bread).
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Congratulations, you have firmly established yourself as a Mommy's basement dweller
without social skills, unable to date and you are going to attract the wrong type of
woman. You are exactly the type that will fail at this.
Additionally, you have previously established yourself as Not Brave, so there is a zero percent
chance that you will be in Ukraine sorting through any hotties.
Newbies should start at the beginning of the thread and ignore Trench in anything he posted.
He either got it wrong or 100% backwards.
PS. I hate beating up Trench, it's just he could read a recipe for a peanut butter
sandwich and not understand that he needed peanut butter (or bread).
Only fools rush in first Beel, I pick my moment and weigh up the pros & cons carefully then move in ;)
That said I have no reason to go to Ukraine at the moment so more a theoretical position really.
So what is this thing of guys ending up in their Mother's basement in America? It's not a thing here but the UK hasn't got as much in the way of basements as the US. Many guys & girls remain at home though well into their thirties & thereafter because of the high cost of housing in the UK and often low pay, so they have a bedroom in the family home. How come these guys choose the basement of the house in America?
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Only fools rush in first Beel, I pick my moment and weigh up the pros & cons carefully then move in ;)
Your basement question was a red herring to distract me.
My wife loves me, I have a son who loves to play with me.
I have better things to spend my time doing.
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the absolute BEST thing USA/Israeli military taught me
was how to live in an environment that pushes you beyound your physical and mental limits
this gives you the ability to DO THINGS that you wouldn't be able to normally do (like LEAVE HOME TRENCH!!)
and once you have this ability, and you're no longer in the military
then this new found ability is YOURS to use as you please
and you can do yur own "difficult things", secure in the knowledge THAT YOU CAN!!!
YOU are now the Captain of your fate, and not the military
and you can command yourself to "go over the top"
instead of sittin on your ass
the Israeli military was the most physically brutal, designed to break a recruit
you HAVE to learn how to adapt and survive it/tolerate the pain w/o complaint and this is the whole point of them torturing you this way
In Israel, you have no choice but to serve and from an early age (I started in high school)....
In USA you have to enlist...
in Israel, if yur smart, you can steer yourself into a "sweet spot" in terms of what kinda duty you got and where and with whom
like Unit 8200
and live "LARGE"
when I was a teenager in Israel and wore my uniform, MILFS would fight over who was gonna take me home for a home cooked meal....
but the magic all went away when I got older and was no longer that "sweet innocent lookin boy"
becuz of what I'd become....
my oldest daughter and her husband left Israel just a few months before Oct 7
she had a cushy "technical" interpreter job for the IDF(Hebrew,Russian,English) while finishing her University Degree
all the young people livin with me now are tryin to avoid the "draft" in either Israel or Russia while finishin their education in the USA...
and I'm like their "Hippy DAD" that they live with
not the life I had planned for
but not bad either
my daughter is an AMAZING cook!!!!
Not many takers for the British Army these days so many youngsters like me when I was younger:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/03/how-the-british-army-lost-its-way/
Looks like NATO might be in trouble if they expect the UK to field a decent force for them lol. Lets hope the US have something to field that's if they are still a part of NATO depending on Trump. Otherwise it's down to the French & Germans most likely and anything else the EU & remains of NATO can cobble together.
I think apart from the factors already listed in the article, support for this monarchy has declined and many like me won't join a force where you have to swear an oath of allegiance to the monarchy. In general though people avoid jobs where the conditions are obviously not good, a lot of bother signing up, poor pay when you get there, movement restrictions, seeing previous soldiers stiffed on their army pensions, etc.
I don't think you have had to join the army to be many enough for a FSW or even left home, there can be good reasons people don't, to look after poorly family members, economic reasons, etc. I do think you need to not be a pushover as if you are a lot of FSW will come to disrespect you and that is normally a fast descent downhill in a relationship with a FSW I have done to learn. Sometimes you can be too nice, too early and issues can arise around that. It also depends on the FSW and how she feels for you also and her personality as a guy who seems weak to one FSW doesn't necessarily to another in my opinion.
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It does not matter if an AW or RW. Drop off at mall and meet me back at Home Depot, Lowes, Best Buy, or any place with a tool section or HDTVs. Sometimes I think I would rather look at 3 types of dirt for my garden then hit a mall.
Ross dress for less is Angel Eyes place to shop but she loves home desperate too because
she also gardens, sews, cans fruit and jams. Nobody is more frugal than my wife. Her ironing
board cover has the elastic from my Fruit of the looms to keep the cover in place.
She is already making salads from the garden. No tomatoes yet. It will be a couple months.
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If you're socially retarded you may find a desperate RW willing to marry you. Anything can happen, but I doubt it'll be true love. Key to any good relationship is communication, respect and self value. Desperation, lack of social skills, lack of self respect and value,lack of manners, drug addiction or addiction of any kind along with loads of baggage rarely ends with success.
Desperate women only act desperately until they are no longer desperate. Then they dump
the socially retarded man
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I have to admit that I fall under the shy category. Over the years, I have grown to manage my shyness at work and in most social spheres, but dating was harder. I am not the kind of guy who can approach a woman in a supermarket, flirt with her and then ask her out on a date. For me, online dating was a godsend. It allowed me to find women who were looking and ask them out on a date in a way that managed my social anxiety.
Why Russia versus Canada? It was simply a question of numbers. In the small city where I live dominated by mills, single and educated women tend to move away. I did Lavalife and Plentyoffish and found few women with a much greater ratio of men-to-women dating. There were at best a couple dozen women on the sites, and it was difficult to arrange first dates, even when you did hit it off online. I did date a handful of women in a year, seduced a couple, but did not find any compatible matches. Quite often I was not attracted to them. Having done that in my first marriage, I decided not to settle. There was one woman that I like, but she had become a serial dater: she loved first-dates from what I gathered. In my experience, attractive and eligible Canadian women in my city did not really use online dating sites and eligible women who really wanted to find a man did not stay eligible for long.
I even went to an expensive matchmaking agency in my city. I gave them my criteria: attractive, educated and younger than 35. She looked at me and said there is one woman who would fit my criteria. She then went to find her file, sighed and said that she had already found someone. After that, she did not even try to convince me to sign-up with her agency.
Russia was very different. The numbers of women on free Russian dating sites are phenomenal. Even a small Russian city with have hundreds (or thousands) of women with active profiles online. You don't find the same social stigma attached to dating sites as you do in Canada. Russian women, in my experience, were also much more likely to quickly agree to meet a guy on a simple date to check him out. These two factors made it possible for me to meet a large number of women. The simple fact of the matter is that the more women you meet, the more likely you will find the one for you (the same is true for women). I stopped dating when I met my wife. We hit it off immediately and we spent six hours on our first date simply talking. However, if my wife and I had not hit it off, I would simply have lined up another date the next day or the day after. The number of women on the free dating sites, my knowledge of Russian, the ease of getting a woman to agree to meet for at least a coffee, made dating in Russia so much more easier than dating in my small Canadian city. When you meet large numbers of women, eventually you will find one who is compatible.
The simple fact of the matter is that I easily succeeded in Russia finding a beautiful, educated woman with no children who fell for me, something that I did not manage to do in my home city. Perhaps if I had been willing to continue dating for a few years in Canada I would have found someone. Perhaps if I had been a bit less shy it would have made things easier. Perhaps if I had found a job in another city in a few years, I would have been in a city with more eligible women.
Was I lacking in social skills? Well, there are different types of social skills. Yes, I will be the first to admit that I am not the outgoing social butterfly who can easily flirt with any woman. That made dating harder. However, once married, this is no longer a liability. My wife wants a man who will be there for her, and not a "бабник" (a "womanizer"), who has refined social skills but low commitment to one woman. It takes me a while to open up, but when I do I often cannot stop talking. Again, not a good trait for making a great first impression on a first date, but wonderful for a marriage.
Am I man enough for a Russian woman? Well, it depends on which Russian woman. I am man enough for the Russian woman who is my wife, and that is good enough for me 8)
Note whoever reads this, don't parse out one tiny part that might apply to you if you twist it around also note: Misha is fluent in Russian.
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the secret to Ukraine is, "You find a woman you can have fun and PLAY WITH"
then you just PLAY with her and have FUN with her (and nothing more at first)
until invariably at some point along the way, her clothes all "come off"
and that's pretty much freakin it
except, for just one detail
the first time you see a nekkid Ukrainian woman
will be permantly etched into your brain
take the hottest porn you EVER SAW
multiply it by TEN
and she's laying naked on a bed 3 feet away from you and she's "spreading" for you
by measuring the distance of your dropped jaw hittin the floor, you can tell it's totally WORTH the time and money it took to get you there!
but...
nevermind...
what's yur favorite Red Dwarf character?
I like the CAT, LOL!!!
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I just used "dating" as a general term. I currently reside in America. I don't consider anything that involves $1000 round trip airplane tickets and 14 hrs of travel time each way "dating." I call that looking for a wife. In my opinion guys that marry these girls have a courtship... they didn't date.
I spent 40 days boots on the ground in Russia and Angel Eyes spent more than 30 days boots
on the ground in the USA. I made 4 trips and she made two. We also spent nearly every day
for over a year talking on Skype.
One day I told her that she was going to fall madly in love with me, that we would get
married and live happily ever after. To which she replied "I know."
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Either you do or you don't but you can easily just date women there just to get the experience, learn and/or have fun dating. Our Beefarmuh could be on a flight now with just that idea in mind to have fun dating in a area where women would be motivated and readily willing to date right now. Instead of sitting at home tapping away on his keyboard to some woman penpal like, just think of all the women he could get with! So much more fun!!!
People who are serious about a relationship do not date for fun.
Having fun is NOT a good goal in life. It leads to extremely bad outcomes. Having fun should be an additional benefit, not the goal.
If you just want to have fun, snort lines of cocaine until your heart explodes. I've heard it's a lot of fun.
There are local women motivated and readily willing to date me.
If you got a hottie and she started giving you some attitude rather than being fearful of messing it up/p*ssing her off you know that you could ditch her and get another hottie within a short period of time without sweating it.
Why would you be fearful of messing things up or pissing off a girl? That reeks of desperation. If you think you need to walk on eggshells around a girl just to get her to be with you, then you might want to take a long look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how you can improve your value.
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People who are serious about a relationship do not date for fun.
Having fun is NOT a good goal in life. It leads to extremely bad outcomes. Having fun should be an additional benefit, not the goal.
If you just want to have fun, snort lines of cocaine until your heart explodes. I've heard it's a lot of fun.
There are local ugly women motivated and readily willing to date me.
Why would you be fearful of messing things up or pissing off a girl? That reeks of desperation. If you think you need to walk on eggshells around a girl just to
get her to be with you, then you might want to take a long look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how you can improve your value.
If you are serious about a relationship you would be in a relationship Beefarmer which of course you are not.
Why be such a stick in the mud, you're so obsessed with doing things 'the right way' not all relationships work out whatever way you do them. You're in your mid forties and eeking the final part of the remaining youthfulness in your life tapping away on a keyboard to your soldier girl penfriend.
I think you take comfort in that and find it a stable situation. Well a penpal is possibly better than none, but you're missing out on having a real life as a result. Do you really want to look back in 5-10 years or so time and thought, 'dang, I could have gone out and met some nice girls back then but chose to tap away on my keyboard to that pointless soldier girl which ultimately led nowhere. I invested my time into that and refused to explore other options hoping on hope that my good nature would see me through with her, but alas as she said earlier she wasn't interested in a relationship and I just didn't want to accept that'.
Beefarmer, your soldier girl penfriend doesn't care whether you've taken a vow of celibacy hoping to gain her favour or are riding hoe after how, she has already told you she isn't interested in a relationship with you, find someone who is, that's someone who is willing to spare you good quality time out of their schedule ;)
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I spent 40 days boots on the ground in Russia and Angel Eyes spent more than 30 days boots on the ground in the USA. I made 4 trips and she made two. We also spent nearly every day for over a year talking on Skype.
Now wife arrived in USA in July 2011 on student visa.
We married in December 2014.
I waited so long just to be sure she squeezed the toothpaste correctly, knew how to iron my shirts, and never had headaches.
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If you are serious about a relationship you would be in a relationship Beefarmer which of course you are not.
People who are serious about relationships proceed cautiously. Sometimes people who are serious about relationships remain single their whole life, rather than to get involved in bad relationships. Who are you to say that I am being too cautious?
I believe that if you marry the right person, there is nothing better in this world. If you marry the wrong one, there is nothing worse. And there are a lot more wrong ones than right ones.
Why be such a stick in the mud, you're so obsessed with doing things 'the right way' not all relationships work out whatever way you do them.
Because I have to handle the consequences of my choices, and I choose to do things that I believe are best for my life. While relationships may not work out the way you want, you do have the ability to avoid relationships that will likely turn bad.
You're in your mid forties and eeking the final part of the remaining youthfulness in your life tapping away on a keyboard to your soldier girl penfriend.
And I am the only person who has to live with my decisions. So what are you so worried about? (I know the answer. Misery loves company, and you want me to jump into a bad relationship so you aren't the only miserable one.)
but you're missing out on having a real life as a result.
I don't feel like I am missing out...and I'm the only one that matters in that regards.
Do you really want to look back in 5-10 years or so time and thought, 'dang, I could have gone out and met some nice girls back then but chose to tap away on my keyboard to that pointless soldier girl which ultimately led nowhere. I invested my time into that and refused to explore other options
In my life I have never looked back and regretted investing time in a girl because I could have been meeting other girls. So I think it is highly unlikely that in 5 or 10 years I will look back and regret not chasing different women or exploring other options. Maybe that is how you think...but that's not how I look at things.
but alas as she said earlier she wasn't interested in a relationship and I just didn't want to accept that'.
she has already told you she isn't interested in a relationship with you,
But, that's not what she said, and not what her actions say. You just have delusions in your mind of conversations that you were never a participant in.
Have you considered that what other people want from a relationship, are different than what you are looking for?
find someone who is, that's someone who is willing to spare you good quality time out of their schedule
There are women who are willing to spare me good quality time out of their schedules. But I will tell you a secret. I'm not desperate for any girl that will look my way. I choose what girls I want to pursue.
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Now wife arrived in USA in July 2011 on student visa.
We married in December 2014.
I waited so long just to be sure she squeezed the toothpaste correctly, knew how
to iron my shirts, and never had headaches.
You rush into things more than others.
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I can see where Beel got the mantra about FSW aren't for entry level daters, from that jb guy.
You aren't just an entry level dater, you have entry level social skills. You can't read something
written in English here on the forum then understand it. You project your world view into it,
totally mischaracterizing what was written in plain English.
How will you read a facial cue from a woman who is lying to you hours after she jumped your
bones?
Answer: You won't, you can't, you don't know how.
If you try to trick, trap, or test an FSUW, they will see it from a mile away. The good girl will
get offended and toss you aside. The bad ones will run circles around you. That is why this
is not for beginners.
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Let me explain once again.
In Russian, the word "жадный" means both:
greedy - eager to obtain; avaricious - and
stingy - niggardly; miserly; ungenerous.
Most women with limited English vocabulary know just the first word but not the second. Hence they will say "greedy" when what they really mean is "stingy".
Blues Fairy explains what "greedy" means. Plenty of FSUW have listed it as something
they don't want in their profile.
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"How will you read a facial cue from a woman who is lying to you hours after she jumped your
bones? "
it took me months of livin in Russia before I learned how to DO THAT!!!
I mean one day, it "just happened"
that I could "detect the various TELLS" in EVERY single Russian I met!!!
but ya never make direct eye-contact doin this, cuz it greatly lowers their guard, and they don't have ANY idea I'm "Readin" them
a trained person could STILL lie, cuz he learned or was taught physical control
but yur average gopnick was an openbook to me, you have to be an "outsider" to do this, it doesn't work on your own culture
but it did in Russia and it's one of the methods of how "I gained power" over Russians in Russia
cuz Russians are ALWAYS tryin to pull some crap with you, and you gotta learn how to out think them at EVERY turn
I created a "whole familiar persona" to put Russians at ease
because I strongly resemble a particular Soviet Comedic Actor so I polish myself as an "Academic" based on his character
with appearnce and behavior, a simple suit and tie and black rimmed glasses
University wimmin ate this up, it opened a LOT of doors for me
in Russian Far East, my daughters had to "cock-block" all the wimmin approachin your humble narrator at the University, cuz our entrance caused "quite a stir"
and I'm a freakin Geezer
you guyz strikin out in Russia/Ukraine are clearly "under-performing" slackers
and that's just "the way it goes"
SORRY CHARLEY!!!
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who'd ever thunk that all the "Neuro Linguistics Programming" Classes and books from back in the early 80s I did, when I lived in LA, and was tryin to be a post new-wave kewl dewd
would only EVER be useful for me years later in Russia
tune yourself into some woman's frequency and you can get her to follow you and DO ANYTHING for you
because she's PROGRAMMED THIS WAY
and you learn how to hack and manipulate her programming
why? cuz it's massively exhilarating bein a stranger in a strange land where Russian wimmin would just spontaneously "take their clothes off" when they got me alone at the "right time and place"
and me bein such "An Ambassador of GOOD WILL" interested in fostering Kultural Exchange, etc.
runnin your hands over the nude body of a stunning Russian woman
I mean ya really try to stretch it out as long as possible
cuz it just looks and feels SO damned nice!
whatever perfume they wear durin this
will the very next day, make you "hard as a rock"
so ya gotta densensitize yurself
before you go to the local magazine or gastronome
or else you gonna be known as "The stoopid American with the Boner"
and you will stigmitize ALL of us!!
SO DON'T!
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Only fools rush in first Beel, I pick my moment and weigh up the pros & cons carefully then move in ;)
What you actually do is dither, postpone and procrastinate until any opportunity is long gone.
How many years has it been since you've traveled to the FSU? You had a Moldova thread
alone for at least a couple years.
Indecision will destroy any relationship with any FSUW past, present or future.
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I believe that if you marry the right person, there is nothing better in this world. If you marry the wrong one, there is nothing worse.
I don't know your situation only what I've read here. You never asked me for advice,
so this is for the newbies rather.
If you find what appears to be a good girl in Ukraine and she is potentially the one.
Ask her when she can be free next for you to visit her.
If she can't or won't give you a date then dump her and move on. Every person in every
military in the world gets leave. If she doesn't come up with a plan, there are billions of
women on Earth and one of those women will be nearly perfect for you. Drop her and
find another out of the billions.
Sunk cost fallacy: the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy
or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that
abandonment would be more beneficial.
Potential Backup Plan.
Fly to Warsaw, Write 50-100 women an introduction letter, saying that can meet them in Lviv.
Most of them can't/won't do it, but some will.
If only 1 in 10 say yes, then you have 5-10 meetings. More likely 3-4 in 10 say yes
so you would need to schedule 15-40 meetings.
Take a couple photos of yourself inside the border during wartime. You will now have a
new profile photo (for dating sites). All the girls will want to meet with you then!
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there are billions of women on Earth and one of those women will be nearly perfect for you.
This is the approach of men who believe that if they lower their standards enough, eventually they will find someone they are willing to settle for.
Fly to Warsaw, Write 50-100 women an introduction letter, saying that can meet them in Lviv.
Most of them can't/won't do it, but some will.
If only 1 in 10 say yes, then you have 5-10 meetings. More likely 3-4 in 10 say yes
so you would need to schedule 15-40 meetings.
This is the approach of men who are desperate, and are lowering their standards in an attempt to find someone they are willing to settle for.
No, thank you. I have always said that I would rather spend my life alone than to be miserable by lowering my standards just to be in a relationship with someone.
The next thing you know, you'll be suggesting that I consider divorced women, or women with children. Once again, no thank you.
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so, in other words...
what you're saying is that YOU'RE NOT man enough for ANY WOMAN...
and THAT's how ya ended up on RWD entertaining us with your incel philosophy
that expalins it!!!!
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This is the approach of men who believe that if they lower their standards enough, eventually they will find someone they are willing to settle for.
This is the approach of men who are desperate, and are lowering their standards in an attempt to find someone they are willing to settle for.
No, thank you. I have always said that I would rather spend my life alone than to be miserable by lowering my standards just to be in a relationship with someone.
The next thing you know, you'll be suggesting that I consider divorced women, or women with children. Once again, no thank you.
Absolutely do not lower your standards. I never lowered mine, I would not ask you to do it.
If any girl is serious she would find a way. She knows that she will get leave at some point
then you can visit her. If she is not serious about you, then she will not inform you when
she gets leave. Russia invaded February 24, 2022 she has received leave. She didn't
let you know about it.
It's time to find someone better who sincerely wants to be the future Mrs. Bee Farmer.
Once again, no thank you.
You are making incorrect assumptions about me. If that girl was killed tomorrow (God forbid)
does that mean there is no other girl on Earth that would meet your standards? If no other
girl would meet your standards then stay single. If you entertain the idea that at least
one other girl on Earth could meet your standard, then my recommendation is that
you should find that one other girl.
Men in WW1, WW2 and the Korean War all got leave. So did the girl you communicate
with. They know when it's coming up and when it will be over.
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If you find what appears to be a good girl in Ukraine and she is potentially the one.
Ask her when she can be free next for you to visit her.
If she can't or won't give you a date then dump her and move on. Every person in every
military in the world gets leave. If she doesn't come up with a plan, there are billions of
women on Earth and one of those women will be nearly perfect for you. Drop her and
find another out of the billions.
Sunk cost fallacy: the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy
or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that
abandonment would be more beneficial.
Or perhaps better still hear from her first with her asking you when she can next meet up with you again ;)
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I don't know what Beefarmer likes in terms of Standards, apart from character and personality what he likes with looks.
There is then Beefarmer himself and how he stacks up. Having high standards is one thing but Brad Pitt gets the hottie girls because he comes home good on many levels, looks, physique, money, game, social status, social skills, big house, nice lifestyle, charisma? etc, etc...
Everyone has their market value, Brad Pitt has his market value, a high market value, and so does the local pretty boy on the block who isn't good enough to be Brad because he doesn't have everything Brad has going for him, he has a high market value locally but not as high as Brad does. Then you get down to the everyday man and woman. They have not so high market value but some may overvalue themselves and stay single a long time refusing to 'lower their standards'.
It's fine having standards but if you overvalue yourself and refuse to get real with how the other gender actually rate you then there is always going to be a mismatch often resulting in no deal. Many people have problems so being aware not to get too carried away with pegging yourself too high and open to those that may fall down a little here & there can help people find their real market value.
There is of course attraction, love, personality, etc that comes into it but if you're not all that as you might think you are yourself and are too picky and refuse to budge a bit then nothing may ever happen. End of the day we are talking real people here not some unreal vision in our minds.
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If any girl is serious she would find a way. She knows that she will get leave at some point
then you can visit her. If she is not serious about you, then she will not inform you when
she gets leave. Russia invaded February 24, 2022 she has received leave. She didn't
let you know about it.
It's time to find someone better who sincerely wants to be the future Mrs. Bee Farmer.
If that girl was killed tomorrow (God forbid)
does that mean there is no other girl on Earth that would meet your standards? If no other
girl would meet your standards then stay single. If you entertain the idea that at least
one other girl on Earth could meet your standard, then my recommendation is that
you should find that one other girl.
Men in WW1, WW2 and the Korean War all got leave. So did the girl you communicate
with. They know when it's coming up and when it will be over.
Our Beefarmuh's big issue is this I think.
'If the girl is not willing to be with him, to commit anything much at all to being with him even for a quick visit, then even if they got together, how are they going to stay together?'
The moment an argument, disagreement or other desire comes about if the girl doesn't feel strongly enough to have had to commit to a visit then she's not going to feel committed enough to stay with our Beefarmuh. She'll won't feel attachment to him and she'll split. Arguments are often an inevitable part of relationships but they tend to break up those where there isn't any or much form of wanting to commit to the other person, to feel any attachment.
So, what happens early on in a relationship, how the other person responds, how each other responds can form a reflection on what will happen later in a relationship.
Her response tells me that our Beefarmer is just wasting his time with this woman. Even if she did miraculously go with him to the US and I think that is not good odds, then by this I don't see it working out and it'll fall apart pretty quick and he'll have wasted a lot of time just sitting it out all this time.
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I never lowered mine, I would not ask you to do it.
I don't believe you. You're either lying, or you never had any standards to begin with.
A guy marrying a woman who is divorced or has a kid is an act of desperation. A guy with standards isn't going to get married to a divorced woman or a woman with a kid as a first choice. And the woman knows she has to lower her standards to get a guy.
If any girl is serious she would find a way. She knows that she will get leave at some point
then you can visit her.
You assume that all women are the kind of women you would pursue...and you assume that I am looking for the same things you are looking for.
It's time to find someone better who sincerely wants to be the future Mrs. Bee Farmer.
But you again assume all relationships should move along the timeline you want.
You are making incorrect assumptions about me.
No, I don't believe I am making any incorrect assumptions about you. But I do believe you are making incorrect assumptions about me.
If that girl was killed tomorrow (God forbid) does that mean there is no other girl on Earth that would meet your standards?
Meeting my standards isn't enough.
I'm not convinced I will ever get married. While I don't consider marriage to be a high likelihood, I don't consider it to be zero likelihood.
If you entertain the idea that at least one other girl on Earth could meet your standard, then my recommendation is that you should find that one other girl.
I consider your recommendation to be a recipe for disaster. Simply because someone meets your standards doesn't mean you are compatible or should even consider pursuing a relationship.
Stop thinking that everyone wants the same thing you want, on the timeline you want. I can assure you, the kind of women you have pursued, are the kind of women I want nothing to do with. And I suspect that women I have dated, are not the kind of women you would have dated.
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A guy marrying a woman who is divorced or has a kid is an act of desperation.
Hey . . . I married a widow with a child.
I wasn't desperate.
I married because she had good future income potential and was young so she could later push my wheelchair.
This may backfire, as she might be aging quicker than myself !!
What unfairness ? !!
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the comedy of BeeFarmer "pontificating" on his theory of successful relationships despite never having had one.... LOL!!!
nor seeing how ridiculous he looks in this role as spokesman for the Incel movement while defending his "profound thoughts"....
frankly, the only reason I come here, is for the humor....
some of ya'll, are REALLY FUNNY!!!!!
I guess, if I had any empathy, I'd feel sorry for ya....
but I poured out what little I had....it was old...
so unfortunately, I'm just fresh outta empathy....
which means....
HA HA!!!
and GUESS WHAT?
The guys who ARE man enuff for a Russian woman....already HAVE a Russian woman
and those who aren't man enuff...have what BeeFarmer has....his right hand (unless he's left handed)
but I think BeeFarmer could use his "shtick" that' he's been workin on here, for a pretty good stand-up comedy routine about incel culture, which is BeeFarmer's primary field of understanding
ya'll have questions about Incels - Beefarmer is yur "go-to" guy
I can't wait to read his latest proclamations!!!!
Mr. "I-am-not-desperate" is probably off watching porn at the moment, so is unable to reply until he 'tidys up' a bit....
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I fear our Beefarmer doesn't have much capability to be able to get with a decent woman. That it's only the low hanging fruit that he may be able to get and that for him is such a turn off as it would for most men of course. I think he tries to hide behind having 'high standards' as an excuse to avoid the embarrassment of the otherwise all too obvious lack of ability of being able to score a decent woman. The soldier girl being just a convenient proof to that narrative that he has something going on and is 'OK' whrn really he isn't.We may be able to help him here is he comes to his senses on this and opens up to us.
His soldier girl out in Ukraine is most likely getting plenty of it (sex) from the troops out there. She's unlikely to not be doing it all this time unless she is real ugly. Bothe her and the troops will be randy for it and may know that they could die tomorrow so who cares. Many of those soldier guys will be well worked out and athletic looking from all that activity, running around loading shells, lifting stuff, etc. That will be attractive for her and they will be yearning for it. Our Beefarmer is just to fill in for lonely moments penpal style when not much is going on. Once the war ends she'll have other things happening to be wanting to bother about him. But he can carry on wait'in.
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I don't believe you. You're either lying, or you never had any standards to begin with.
A guy marrying a woman who is divorced or has a kid is an act of desperation. A guy with standards isn't going to get married to a divorced woman or a woman with a kid as a first choice. And the woman knows she has to lower her standards to get a guy.
I was divorced with a child, my wife was the same. She is honest with excellent character.
We have been married for 9 years (10 in November). I have been very happy with my
wife at my side and raising/playing with the boy we made together.
You have a pen-pal who has taken leave (maybe several) and didn't tell you about it or
lied about it. She has been feeding you porkie pies and you have been eating them.
This woman doesn't have a child?
Many FSU women use abortion as birth control. How many has she had? There is no
way to know or to tell.
I am saying she has gone on leave. I am saying that she preferred to go on leave and
spend time with others rather than with you. Maybe that's because you are pen pals
rather than in a serious relationship.
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I fear our Beefarmer
There is no reason to worry about Beefarmer. He has a pen pal. He hasn't met her in
real life yet so she is just a cyber friend at this time. I have several cyber friends.
The girl I met in Georgia is sort of like his dream girl.
She was a virgin, went to church 3 hours every Sunday, fasted every fast. Read psalms
and all the other things, that chaste girls do. I was her cyber pal every day for almost a
year. I visited her and romance did not happen.
Real girls like this need to be romanced in person. You have to go to church with them
and fast with them for at least a year maybe two. Then she will marry you. It can't
be done over the internet. I don't have any way to make money while in Georgia
or wherever else you find this type of girl.
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Well he claims to have met her in real life before the war broke out, but that she joined the Medic unit of the Army to help out wounded soldiers.
Apparently he claims she only gets about two weeks leave a year so her family take priority over him (parents, etc) and so she wishes to spend that time off with them and not him.
She apparently won't leave her country to be with him now that she is committed to being a Medic in the Army.
That is how I recall it from what Beefarmer has put before.
The war is now in its third year in Ukraine yet still no visitation on the cards for our Beefarmuh. I hope it's not a long war as otherwise it will be many years before they get the chance to see each other again. Till then it's plenty of penpal writing to be done!
A shame that she won't spare a few hours to see our Beefarmuh during a visit to her parents if he were to fly over, keep the romance flowing for real :-\
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we gossip like a bunch of old Russian babooshki......
what this board REALLY needs
is a rant from a virtual paranoid schitzophrenic!!!!
AMIRIGHT??!!
ya'll better forget about all the non-important stuff...
cuz none of it's gonna matter after the next decade
while yur all focusing on gay cowboys vrs latin immigrants (never mind the man behind the curtain)
all yur really doin is responding to massa's programming
which is designed to distract ya from the fact that he's gonna grift on yur Social Security/Medicare to keep massa's taxes low
ya''ll need to read "The Grapes of Wrath"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grapes_of_Wrath
cuz when the debt bombs all explode in the 2030s, and the drought comes to the midwest
it's gonna be deja vu all over agin
the yearly interest on the federal debt will exceed the increase in GDP for the entire economy
and will KEEP INCREASING
resulting in a permanent negative growth rate for the USA and all who trade with the USA
a death spiral, and we're already IN IT!!!!!!
but this is just the very, very, beginning....
you won't actually start feeling major things until AFTER 2025...
then it all goes downhill faster and faster...
the result is gonna be a repeat of the Great Depression/Dust Bowl
almost EXACTLY like the last one 100 years ago
only MUCH, MUCH worse!!!
and while massa got ya all debating the merits of gay comboy reading day and whatever other distractions he comes up with, Taylor Swift nip slip, whatever...
he's hiding his play to cut Social Security and Medicare for workers to pretend and extend massa's imploding economy for just a few more years
enuff time for him to bail out and secure a space at Vault-Tec
as Marx said, the struggle is ALWAYS gonna be between rich and poor
so ya need to distract the poor with the Gay Cowboy stories
while your oligarchs use the government to rob them to give the oligarch class a few more good years
anyone watching Trump, and Harvard where legacies account for 75% of admissions still think we live in a meritocracy?
you'd ALL better start prepping
your dollars will be freeakin worthless and yur assets are all priced in dollars...oopsie
I'm thinking of making a robot for making toilette paper!!!!
and you can attach guns to it as well!!!!
sometimes ya go out and you and yur robot go fighting
and sometimes you and yur robot make toilette paper to trade with the villagers for food
cuz...
afterall...it's still America
and tis my right to keep and bear weapons......
but threy didn't go into too much specifics....
the pen is mightier than the sword?
yes!! mine is a single shot .22 LR - you actually have to place it on someone's head/neck and flip the spring to fire it
much handier than a sword...
and I look like such a sweet smilin' ole geezer....
the older I get, the less I find "life in prison" or even certain death to be a persuasive deterrent...
silly me...
the worst man to fight is always the one with nothin to lose
why?
cuz he'll take major risks to shank 'ya, that a more cautious man wouldn't take
which forces you to play defense insteada offense
how you white boyz gonna survive in this wicked world?
show the slightest weakness and you will be roasted alive and eaten by the natives...
how ya gonne earn their respect????
fear??
love??
hmmmmm.........
to think, that Donald J Trump, is the LEADER of The Christian Nationalist Movement*
is either the FUNNIEST
or most DISTURBING THING EVER
maybe BOTH!!!!!
OMG!!! I REALLY AM CRAZY!!!!!!!
this can't really be happening....can it....
I hope he picks "Crazy Al Yankovich" as his Vice President!!!!!
*you know they wanna have a "firey cross", right....
these ain't no "knights in white satin" Bobby...
they are performing a "venerated ritual"
damn good thing, I have light colored hair/blue eyes, cuz when I was 6 yrs old a car full of klansmen pulled up next to me and asked me for directions
if they knew I was a Jew, I'd been a 'goner fer sure, they'd killed a 6 yr old like me, like they did to some black kids back then
I totally "played it cool" even changed my voice to sound just the way their kids sounded at skool, like they sez "DAWG"
Mossad shoulda recruited me RIGHT THEN!!!!!
I'd had no problem slippin on some c-4 on a magnet under their old Chevy with a 30-sec delay-detonator
"ya'll have a nice day now, ya hear?"
and legally a 6 year old could't EVEN be charged with murder!!!!
and for that reason, I'd only charge HALF what an adult would charge for the same "hit"
anyway....
that's kinda how I "got started"
anybody have a better story than that?
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When I studied History & American Studies the 'Grapes of Wrath' was one of the text on the list of one of the modules. I didn't study that module so I have never read it. I probably should get around to reading it some day. I read the summary though a year or two ago and decided that probably tells me all anyway. In general I'm not a big fiction book reader as I often just don't have the time and prefer to watch any film version. I think the film version of that though is quite old now lol.
I'm not in the US so all that stuff probably won't affect me much
As far as our Beefarmuh goes he can either seek out a good life for himself or sit there where he is waiting to replace one of the old boys above him in the food chain a few years from now and become the new old boy getting older with no life waiting to pass on. Up to him I guess but I wouldn't figure that it's much of a life, the same ol' same.
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Hey . . . I married a widow with a child.
I wasn't desperate.
Yes, you were desperate.
You made a vow for life...but then you got divorced. While divorce relieved you of some of your legal responsibilities to her, it did not absolve you of your moral responsibilities. You were facing a choice if you wanted to have integrity and honor. You could reconcile with your divorced wife, or you could remain celibate the rest of her life.
You chose to dishonor your word, and got with a widow with a child. That was an act of desperation, rather than to have to reconcile or remain celibate.
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Fly to Warsaw, Write 50-100 women an introduction letter, saying that can meet them in Lviv.
Most of them can't/won't do it, but some will.
If only 1 in 10 say yes, then you have 5-10 meetings. More likely 3-4 in 10 say yes
so you would need to schedule 15-40 meetings.
If you can find 50-100 women you are interested in meeting, then you don't have any standards. This is the strategy for men who are looking for a hookup with a Tinder hoe. Men are told to like every woman on Tinder, in the hopes that a few women will like them back...and of those who like you, you can find one who will have sex. (While men typically like every woman on Tinder, women on Tinder only like 5%-10% of the men. A coworker once showed me his Tinder account, and the women on Tinder were almost all the nastiest hoes that nobody in their right mind would would date. And if a guy you knew got drunk and slept with one of these girls at a party, everyone would tease them for years.)
This is not the strategy for finding a long term partner. If you use this strategy in your search for a wife, you will end up with a Tinder hoe. Unless your idea of a successful relationship is a one night stand with the same woman every night, this is a recipe for disaster.
One of the problems with this approach is that you are not playing a numbers game to find girls who like you. You are selecting girls who are impulsive, risk taking, and looking for instant gratification. These are traits you want if you are looking for an easy lay, but traits you want to avoid like the plague if you want to find a committed relationship.
I was divorced with a child, my wife was the same. She is honest with excellent character.
A woman with an excellent character will not get involved with a man who is divorced. She knows she deserves better.
A woman of excellent character gets married as a virgin. If the marriage ends in divorce, she remains single and hopes to reconcile.
A woman of excellent character puts the needs of her family members above her own desires, which also reduces the likelihood of divorce.
A woman of decent character who is still raising children will not allow a man who is not a blood relative of her children to live in the same house. She knows that there is a 1 in 3 chance her child will be abused if a man moves into the home who is not a blood relative of her child. No woman of decent character is going to take that risk. Women of decent or excellent character care about the welfare of their children.
A man or woman who lacks good character will care not for the way they hurt other people as long as their own needs, desires and objectives are met. They will not care how much their children will suffer. (Smiley Girl didn't waste any time going to another country, leaving her family behind. If that's not a sign of problems, I don't know what is.)
A woman of excellent character is not going to have a kid in her 40's with a man that is 50. She knows that this period of life is for helping raise grandchildren (if/once they have them) and for paying off the house and saving money for retirement. A woman of excellent character knows that if they have a child at a later age, they will be spending money on raising the child instead of getting their financial house in order preparing for retirement. She also knows that they will not have as much energy for grandchildren if they have spent all their energy on this new baby. But, people run into these problems when they are focused on instant gratification. A woman of excellent character is focused on delayed gratification.
I have been very happy with my wife at my side and raising/playing with the boy we made together.
The ENFP personality type is the most common personality type found in homeless people. They are very happy people, who make impulsive decisions based upon how they feel.
You have a pen-pal who has taken leave (maybe several) and didn't tell you about it or lied about it.
She did take 2 days off for an uncle's funeral.
Maybe she lied. Maybe she told the truth. Time will tell.
Some people are very high in trait conscientiousness. This is not a trait impulsive people understand.
This woman doesn't have a child?
No. She has no children.
There is no reason to worry about Beefarmer. He has a pen pal. He hasn't met her in
real life yet so she is just a cyber friend at this time.
Who did I meet then? Does she have an identical twin sister that she never told me about, and who never appears in any family photos?
The girl I met in Georgia is sort of like his dream girl.
She was a virgin, went to church 3 hours every Sunday, fasted every fast. Read psalms
and all the other things, that chaste girls do. I was her cyber pal every day for almost a
year. I visited her and romance did not happen.
Real girls like this need to be romanced in person. You have to go to church with them
and fast with them for at least a year maybe two. Then she will marry you. It can't
be done over the internet. I don't have any way to make money while in Georgia
or wherever else you find this type of girl.
She sounds like a good girl.
I think what you are trying to say is that the price for a lady like this is higher than you were willing to pay...so you just say, "Sour grapes."
And if another guy shows interest in a good lady of high standards, you discourage them from pursuing such ladies, and instead resort to encouraging them to use your strategy for picking up Tinder hoes...because heaven forbid a guy actually have the integrity to be successful in pursuing a high quality lady when you didn't have what it takes.
I find it quite interesting what is not said. How many times on here have I been encouraged to pursue a woman of high standards?
Birds of a feather flock together. Of my circle of friends, only one is divorced...and he reconciled and remarried his wife. All have been married for decades. All of us are entrepreneurial, and either own a business or a side business if we have a regular job. (Except Doug, who retired early.) All are debt free, and none live paycheck to paycheck.
And without exception, all of my friends have encouraged me to continue pursuing this girl.
It has not escaped notice that men who are happily married for decades encourage me to pursue this girl, while divorced men try to discourage me, and instead encourage me to be like them and be sex tourists or pursue Tinder hoes.
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BeeFahmah
you only think about abstractions of hypothetical women
and never an actual REAL WOMAN
with a real woman, all your "hypotheticals" go completely out the freakin' window...
and all your pre-judgements are of no value either...
all useless...
you formed your sacrosanct principles without it coming from your own positive experiences
cuz you live in a void, and this is why you believe in so many false assumptions, cuz ya haven't learned any better
the self-help books you read, only helps the author and publisher, but not you, yur not benefiting
you can't JUST read about life
you have to go and live it
and that's something else that you REALLY haven't figured out yet....
now to someone like me,
you come across as annoyingly small minded, and not very likable
and that creates an urge within me to "savage you" with no mercy
cuz frankly, I am a mean and cruel bastard that you don't wanna mess with...
I suspect there's a much deeper part to "yur story"
the beginning....
cuz that's the part that explains how ya got so phuqued up in the first place
now the ONE thing you gotta ask yurself BeeFahmah, is this:
What if I'm RIGHT????
What then????
do you have the courage to hold yur face to a mirror and compare to what I described....
PS
even though you don't reply to my posts, I know full well you read them....
cuz I have "powers"
now, you're even reading this one!!
it's AMAZING!!! right???
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Beefarmer, Bill met his current wife not directly from the method he tells us. He met his current wife through a social media contact who suggested her and she agreed to meet him after one of his meet ups dropped out. The social media contact was a former meet up of his as I understand it. While that shows that networking with women can really be a good way to meet a good girl many women out there refuse to have male friends.
I've seen it work where two people with a child each can form a good family, that is a good outcome out of two broken families potentially. We also hear in the news of step fathers abusing children that aren't directly theirs. Bill is a decent guy though and I think his wife saw that.
The write to 50-100 women or more method I have not done. In theory Bill's method is a meet one method that can and often did for him evolve into a meet many method. Overall I would say it's more of a meet many method since you are lining up girls to follow through on if your first date doesn't work out. Some people may just meet the others anyhow and just meet one a day in a full meet many method. It can no doubt be fun but I think does stand the risk of passing over a girl who would be right because she has problems.
Like you I never really tried to use such a method of writing to 50 - 100 women. There often wasn't that many women who were actively looking on the dating site in one city alone and of course most just didn't appeal to me. I did one or maybe two occasions write to many women in different cities and results varied, most didn't write back probably mostly because they were no longer active on the dating site, etc.
I always tended to default to the WOVO method due to time constraints and only several women sometimes even just the one woman or so who I was interested in writing too at any given time and was interested in writing back. I met probably about six women through this method with no luck until I found one where she was into me enough it seems. The others if I was more up on dating who knows but I think they probably weren't interested enough it is fair to say.
In a way the last time kind of felt that it was silly going to meet just the one girl, a lot of time input plus the tension of putting yourself out to meet the one girl. I thought to myself this is the last time of using this method and I'll go to visit many in future. I don't know out of the two methods I would probably say that it's best to just move to a city in the FSU at least temporarily for a few weeks a month as an absolute minimum and go and just date girls one at a time, like you would at home. It's why people ended up doing that in the first place otherwise there can be a lot of awkwardness using either method in it not totally fitting what is needed.
I still personally think that you are holding onto this girl for too long though Beefarmer. If she is so conscious that she can't spare a few minutes/a few hours for you in a day to meet you in person then she is not interested enough in you.
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So on this wonderful Bank Holiday Monday I have a plan for our Beefarmuh. Beefarmer tells his workplace that he needs at least two months off for whatever reason will fly with them. He then goes out to Ukraine telling his soldier girl of his intentions and telling her that he will be as near to where she works as being reasonably safe can be. If she point blank refuses to meet up beforehand or while he is there that should tell him she doesn't give two shits about him. Then he rents an Apartment for a couple of months in a city of his preference. He then goes on Fdate and other such similar dating sites and messages the girls one or a couple of so at a time. He tells them in his first message that he is in their city, a small bit about himself and that he would like to meet up. He then meets the ones that accept one by one for a date and sees if they are the one for him, that they have time for him and they are truly into him and are asking to meet him again. Beefarmer can repeat this process at his leisure and likely within two months will have met a girl who will make him wonder why he ever bothered wasting so much time on soldier girl. If soldier girl can't be bothered to meet him even if it's down to conscientiousness or whatever then shd deserves nothing more than a big up yours to make her reflect on what is important, but perhaps our Beefarmuh is just not that important to her at all.
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when yur clutching at straws
nothing is real...and nothing to get hung-up about
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The ENFP personality type is the most common personality type found in homeless people.
They are very happy people, who make impulsive decisions based upon how they feel.
You can make statements with absolute conviction, but it doesn't make them true.
90% of homeless people are addicted, have mental illness or both. They aren't happy
people.
The ENFP personality type stands for Extroverted, Intuitive, Feeling and Perceiving.
Some of the most common words used to describe ENFPs are friendly, energetic, creative
and innovative. “ENFPs are known for their lively and outgoing nature and ability to connect
with others on a deep level.
Maybe she lied. Maybe she told the truth. Time will tell.
Time has told. You are one of the pedestal preservation Types. Putting someone never met
on a pedestal, projecting/assigning all sorts of virtues upon her from afar.
She's had leave and not only two days for a funeral. If she said that she hasn't, she lied.
Now you are lying to yourself. Leave for Ukrainian troops during wartime is a thing. You
can look it up. Myself, I dumped liars, I only wanted a woman that I could trust.
She sounds like a good girl.
I think what you are trying to say is that the price for a lady like this is higher than you were willing to pay...so you just say, "Sour grapes."
I said it say sour grapes, I wrote about it. I never wrote a single negative thing about that
girl. I had a son that still lived with me and he was my top priority at the time. I couldn't
leave him to work for pennies and grubs in Georgia for a couple years. There was a
English teaching program for native English speakers. They make about $350 per
month and they are put into a Georgian family's home.
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Beefarmer, Bill met his current wife not directly from the method he tells us. He met his current wife through a social media contact who suggested her and she agreed to meet him after one of his meet ups dropped out. The social media contact was a former meet up of his as I understand it. While that shows that networking with women can really be a good way to meet a good girl many women out there refuse to have male friends.
None of our Venn diagram of contacts intersected, zero.
I was going through profiles at a social media site. I saw a photo of a girl with
captivating eyes, so I wrote her an e-letter asking her to meet me and that is
how I met the one for me.
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This is the approach of men who believe that if they lower their standards enough, eventually they will find someone they are willing to settle for.
If you set your standards so high that Zero women in 4 billion can meet it, then your
standards are insane. If you can't find 50 women in a city of millions that meet your
standards is ridiculous.
They aren't the one with the problem.
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He met his current wife through words, words, stuff I made up in my head, words, words,
stuff I made up in my head, words, words, stuff I made up in my head, words, words,
stuff I made up in my head, words, words, stuff I made up in my head, words, words,
stuff I made up in my head, words, words, stuff I made up in my head,
Where did this fictional story come from?
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Where did this fictional story come from?
Someone else came up with it a few years ago on here. Thanks for setting the record straight Bill. So the correct version was that you were trawling social media sites for MILF ;D
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People who are serious about a relationship do not date for fun.
...
Late to this thread, but that is simply ridiculous. Dating *IS* fun. It's all about fun. It's all about "The Dance." I'd be dropping any woman who isn't fun.
Why would you be fearful of messing things up or pissing off a girl? That reeks of desperation. If you think you need to walk on eggshells around a girl just to get her to be with you, then you might want to take a long look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how you can improve your value.
And then you follow up the previous ridiculocrity with the above --- which may very well be one of your best paragraphs. Spot on.
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Late to this thread, but that is simply ridiculous. Dating *IS* fun. It's all about fun. It's all about "The Dance." I'd be dropping any woman who isn't fun.
And then you follow up the previous ridiculocrity with the above --- which may very well be one of your best paragraphs. Spot on.
Late to this thread also.… It used to annoy me, but now I don’t mind his advice that comes from his imagination, having never been in a relationship before and the imaginary, invisible sky wizard too…. It means us desperate guys seeking older Soviet era born, divorced single mothers have one less delusional keyboard Romeo to contend with😂