Almost-total newbie here ...

[Gator]

Because I won't make the same mistake my father made ...

All of your other answers are positive.  This, however, is so lame.  If you can fix this, you may be on your way to a normal life.

[veritas]

Well, sorry, but I truly believe that ... And I know better now than to do the same ...

[veritas]

All of your other answers are positive.  This, however, is so lame.  If you can fix this, you may be on your way to a normal life.

I'm fixing it by not having children ...

Kevin

[Gator]

I'm fixing it by not having children ...

This sounds the same as how you are fixing your problem with women - you avoid women.

Is this about what genes your children may inherit?   Or your fear that you would become your father in dealing with your own children?  You know what not to do.

[SANDRO43]

Because I won't make the same mistake my father made ...

I had a similar experience and outlook that made me choose a certain Italian girl whom I later divorced - probably because of my too rigid approach to certain problems, a result of that outlook.

I divorced at 33, and found that forgetting about my early problems caused most of my 'ballast' to disappear gradually but surely. More precisely, my new approach became "Hell, I am what I am, I won't fight it, accept it and get on with my new life." The resulting psychological relaxation was probably my real medicine .

[JohnDearGreen]

And I'm FOLLOWING it ... That's all been written here ...
And I'm GETTING it ... That's all been written here ...
And I'm AGREEING with that ... That's all been written here ...
Anything else? 

Kevin,
Suggest you forget about the psychology, chat-relationships, divorce, analysis-paralysis, advice (except mine of course), etc and consider just taking a vacation trip to Ukraine with goal of having fun only.   Meet several ladies you are emailing, a few from a marriage agency, and talk to some on the street or in a club, and go from there.  You might even stumble onto a lady who will be the solution instead of the problem.

[Gator]

One last quote from that same 2006 e-mail:
____________________________________

I gotta say that I'd still be leery of getting involved with her BECAUSE.... the next
guy she gets involved with will be on the heels of a long, long string
of lovers with whom he is to be compared, etc. .. (She didn't say it
that way at all, but to me, that's the gist of it)

She was with you, not other men.  Her reasons were more than sex. 

She may have been less than satisfied the first time with you.  So, the two of you work on it a second time, a third, etc.

And frankly, that's an
awful lot to live up to -- her expectations that way, her "bar", seems
to be set pretty damn high, and the way she talks, I'd be leery myself
of not "measuring up" to her expectations

Easy, don’t care.  Unless Joanna is a sex machine, she will add sex with all the other subjective variables and decide if she likes you or not.  If she does not like you, there are other women.

Was Joanna ('sex is most important') the best woman for recovery?   She seems like the antithesis of your wife ('sex is sin').  I guess you need a woman between the two. 

Jooky says that you rejected Joanna.  Yes, because you never went to bat.  You did not want to give Joanna sexual pleasure.  Sex is not about just you; sex involves a partner and you must think of her desires and needs.

BTW the PhD RW that I suggested you call is not a Joanna.  She is more feminine. Plus, she is much smarter than Joanna in that she could write a scientific book on ESO, and in contrast Joanna found such a book a difficult read.   There are other differences.  It was just an idea, and you rejected it.  I have no problem with it.

[veritas]

This sounds the same as how you are fixing your problem with women - you avoid women.

Is this about what genes your children may inherit?   Or your fear that you would become your father in dealing with your own children?  You know what not to do.

Your first point is well-taken ... But remember, I AM in therapy for this ...

Both, really ... Toward the end of my marriage, Christina phoned my mom,
and she basically told her that I seemed to be "re-playing" my father's life ...

I had a similar experience and outlook that made me choose a certain Italian girl whom I later divorced - probably because of my too rigid approach to certain problems, a result of that outlook.

I divorced at 33, and found that forgetting about my early problems caused most of my 'ballast' to disappear gradually but surely. More precisely, my new approach became "Hell, I am what I am, I won't fight it, accept it and get on with my new life." The resulting psychological relaxation was probably my real medicine .

Thanks, Sandro ...   Sorry for getting "cranky" with you on "Lana's help" thread ...

Kevin

[veritas]

Kevin,
Suggest you forget about the psychology, chat-relationships, divorce, analysis-paralysis, advice (except mine of course), etc and consider just taking a vacation trip to Ukraine with goal of having fun only.   Meet several ladies you are emailing, a few from a marriage agency, and talk to some on the street or in a club, and go from there.  You might even stumble onto a lady who will be the solution instead of the problem.

Thanks, JDG, but it's already been made clear -- by Sculpto and others -- that I have NO BUSINESS at all
trying to meet FSU (or other) women at this time ...

Kevin

[facetrock]

   Since you dont plan on dating for awhile I suggest you do alot of reading while your getting ready. Go read trip reports. You will get a feel why some people do well and others have problems. Lots of good reading there and you can learn alot. Pay close attention to the confidence level of some of the guys.

[Gator]

Let me summarize my opinions.  A few pages ago before your self-disclosures, you asked a question, “What should I do (regarding RW)?”

You know the answer.  You knew it before you joined RWD.  You first need to fix yourself. 

You need to date women for fun without all the guilt and insecurities.  Find someone you like and who likes you, and then try to get closer.  You need someone with whom you can have serious in-depth conversations (eliminates many RW), who understands mental disorders and feels empathy (eliminates most RW), and whom you can see frequently (eliminates all RW).

Thus, don't waste your time with RW.  Besides, I believe it is too easy to deal with RW as some fantasy.   You need reality, not fantasy.

Have a good day.

[veritas]

She was with you, not other men.  Her reasons were more than sex.  

She may have been less than satisfied the first time with you.  So, the two of you work on it a second time, a third, etc.

Joanna was never "with me" at all, in either sense ... We never had sex, and she may have been
seeing guys from Match.com, or elsewhere ... She considered us only to be friends, not "dating" ...
(She said) ...

Easy, don’t care.  Unless Joanna is a sex machine, she will add sex with all the other subjective variables and decide if she likes you or not.  If she does not like you, there are other women.

I honestly think Joanna WAS a sex machine -- TMI for here ...

Was Joanna ('sex is most important') the best woman for recovery?   She seems like the antithesis of your wife ('sex is sin').  I guess you need a woman between the two.

Something like that, yeah ...

(BTW, my wife came to believe that PRE-MARITAL sex was "sin" -- but by then, it didn't matter) ...

You did not want to give Joanna sexual pleasure.

Says WHO??  A bit TMI, but the ONLY thing I did with my (few) girlfriends was give THEM sexual pleasure ...

(Sculpto knows exactly what I mean by that) ...

BTW the PhD RW that I suggested you call is not a Joanna.  She is more feminine. Plus, she is much smarter than Joanna in that she could write a scientific book on ESO, and in contrast Joanna found such a book a difficult read.   There are other differences.  It was just an idea, and you rejected it.  I have no problem with it.

And then I immediately apologized to you and said that I was (now) open to ALL advice -- including yours ...

Gator, forgive me for saying this, but you've been reading this thread selectively ...
But I do appreciate your help ...

Kevin

[veritas]

You need to date women for fun without all the guilt and insecurities.  Find someone you like and who likes you, and then try to get closer.  You need someone with whom you can have serious in-depth conversations (eliminates many RW), who understands mental disorders and feels empathy (eliminates most RW), and whom you can see frequently (eliminates all RW).

Thus, don't waste your time with RW.

Already done ... The consensus here is that I shouldn't be dating ANYONE -- here OR there -- and I've agreed ...

Kevin

[GQBlues]

GQBlues, you've been pretty good to me on here, so I'll try to elaborate ...

WOW Kevin! I really didn't mean for you to open up that much. Matter of fact I wasn't specifically alluding to your personal case as I was asking more for general (clinical?) classification of 'sexual rejection'. But nonetheless, 'preciate it, bro....

I was thinking about you yesterday and wanted to post my thoughts last night but we were having our housewarming and I was surrounded by cool & crazy Russians. You should've been here...

So buddy, if you want to get a lift, here's my take on your life story so far - you inherited $500,000.00, a house, got hook-up with a gorgeous, sexual woman gal on Match, you live in Orlando, ef-el-ey, you have many female friends, you're single - no children, 6'1" and 190 lbs. and fit, good-looking, 46 years young, etc....

Dude, I don't get it, so what's the problem? You sound a lot more sane and fit than some of the men involved in the MOB (me included, hah-hah!).

For example, there's a recent story of a guy in another section who led a woman on for half a year for his jollies then left her cleaning up the mess he left behind. Worst, he goes on and tells a tale to make it sound like the woman was the lowest of the low by implying she's a scammer. The woman is a mother of two. You should see how this guy got a warm embrace from the gallery.

I can sit down with you for an entire weekend and give you a serious rundown about some of the character of men I've seen pass through the MOB scene, man. They'd make you seem harmless as a child. They even enacted a law to keep some of these characters off the market, and you should see and hear some of the bitching and moaning that followed. Compared to you, you're an 'ace' facing up and not some phocking joker hidden in the middle of the deck, you know what I mean? Are you fit to date or submit to the MOB? I don't know the answer to that Q, man. What I know is there are a some real wackos involved in the MOB and they even get an occassional high-5 from the peanut gallery when they get a woman home. That's a fact! So go figure...

Kevin, you do need sometime to get yourself to a good place, dude. Spend time with the right people. Don't kid youself, everyone have issues. My issue is I have such uncanny abilities and abundance of skills and I'm just too damned sexy, man! It sux!

The only difference between you and most is you have the cajones to own up to it. Well, almost. The father situation ain't too cool, man. Let that puppy go home and away from you - it's time. You should be incredibly happy getting an opportunity to be someone your father can never be. Thank him for giving you that chance.

So turn this pshyt around soon. You don't want to be 50 and still be in the same place alone, worst, unto your 60s and beyond....that would really blow!

Happy Sunday!

ps: take a break from the mundane. Grab someone you trust and see the world. Travel. Appreciate life. Row the Amazons, sip coffee in Paris, breathe the air up on the Tatras...

[veritas]

Thanks, GQBlues ...

FWIW, I never DID "hook up" with Joanna ... I only saw her twice, and we never even kissed ...

I do have female friends, but only a few -- Linda in particular ...

That $500,000 was ten years ago -- not NOW ...  

"Good-looking" is IYNSHO, I reckon ...

And there's another bit (or two)
of TMI that only Sculpto knows ...

But -- 'preciate it, bro ...

And you're right about "letting my father go" ...

Kevin

P.S.  I *AM* "harmless as a child" ...

[Sculpto]

Kevin.. turn off your computer and go outside.  Go for a walk.  Do it now. 

[Lazarus]

My 2 Kopeks....FWIW




Laz

[veritas]

Thanks, Laz, but this 2001 computer o' mine can't "do" video ...
Can you describe it instead?

Folks, I've been getting progressively more "sick" the last few days --
weak, shaky, dizzy, sweaty, etc. -- and I suspect it has a lot to do
with both my amount of time spent posting and the nature of my posts ...
It's actually been getting ever-harder for me to use the mouse/keyboard ...
It might also be related to my (very-active) depression and its medications ...

So I'm gonna (try to) become a less-prolific poster on here than I have been lately ...
But I'll continue to respond to new replies, as always ...

Sculpto -- it's pouring outside -- one of Orlando's well-known summer thunderstorms ...

And just to recap -- the overwhelming consensus on RWD is that I shouldn't be trying
to date AT ALL -- either here OR there -- and so I'm not ...

Thanks, all ...

Kevin

[Olga_Mouse]

...the entertaining aspect of the internet forums still amazes me. Who would predict what way this thread could take? [techs: I miss that emoticon from another forum!!!]

No dating, no sex, since May 2006 - just one month after that happy, smiling photo of mine to the left ...

Gosh, and I thought my 2 months 5 days without sex are something extreme? Everything is learned in comparison, indeed  

Speaking of "bad taste" and pubic "fur" and "forests":
IS or is NOT the trend for FSU women - OR American women - to be rather "de-furred" and "de-forested"?

Dunno about a_murrican women, as my only source of information on the subject is "Sex & the city" - which talks about both epilation and "full bush". Here the anti-fur campaign has affected mainly club-going tweenies from big cities, I think - but not the majority of female population.

2.  Talk candidly to RW who may be interested if not sympathetic about your sexual issues.

Yeah, I already imagine the activists of "Shag a Kev!" community collecting donations on the streets, to fly the chosen one to Orlando 

[Gator]

And just to recap -- the overwhelming consensus on RWD is that I shouldn't be trying
to date AT ALL -- either here OR there -- and so I'm not ...

Kevin,
You can accuse me of selective reading.  I accuse you of selective analysis.  You are half correct with the above statement.

Almost everyone who commented at RWD said you should not attempt the RW venture (write them, meet them, fall in love with one, file for a visa, bring her to America, marry her).  So regard to that part, you are correct.

However, how many people said you should not date AW?  Why don’t you do a recount?  To make my opinion clear, I believe you should date AW. 

I say that based on my my depressed ex-wife's experience.  She found someone who made her happy.  Since then she has spent little time with her two sons.   I found that so odd (the reason I questioned you about having kids).  And she snaked her man from her best friend of 30+ years, so she also lost her best friend.  BTW, the man is older than me and in bad health (heart, diabetes so sex was not the attraction).  Yet, she is happy.

So you should keep looking.  Somewhere, sometime you will make a good connection, but not if you hide from women.  If you avoid women, as GQ says you will become the 50-yo, then 60-yo eccentric bachelor, living alone.  Will you even make it to 70?  Is that what you want?

I hope you feel better.

 

[veritas]

ps: take a break from the mundane. Grab someone you trust and see the world. Travel. Appreciate life. Row the Amazons, sip coffee in Paris, breathe the air up on the Tatras...

GQBlues, those are all great things, but I can't actually do any of them at this time ...

I didn't mention them before, but I've got some on-going physical issues (at least 2010)
that are effectively preventing me from going much of ANYWHERE right now, and they
don't seem to be getting any better ... I've already been to a slew of doctors about
these -- including an excellent neurologist -- but there's nothing they can do 'cuz
all my test results came back just FINE ... They can find NO physical reason for
these symptoms, to wit:  shakiness (especially in the hands and fingers); off-
balance-ness (often leering to one side or starting to fall); extreme weakness,
especially in the extremities; extremely disturbed sleep; and more ...

It's gotten to the point where I literally almost cannot use the keyboard and mouse --
I practically have to hunt-n-peck now, whereas several years ago, I was a speedy
and accomplished typist ... I can barely move the mouse around (or properly click
the buttons) with my right hand, and so I usually have to cross over my left hand
to help, which is very awkward and tiring and sometimes doesn't help anyway ...
It's truly taken me "forever and a day" to write all of these (lengthy) posts ...

I routinely spill things, drop things, juggle things, (start to) fall into things, etc. ...
My hand and finger motions are jerky, twitchy, shaky, spasmodic, and generally
uncoordinated ... Multiple times, I've fallen forward (or backward), and -- if I'm
lucky -- caught myself, or broken my fall, before hitting the ground (sometimes
NOT) ... Anything that requires dexterity, etc., is extremely difficult for me, such
as tying shoelaces or removing "child-proof" caps ...

I don't know what the HELL is happening to me, but I've been thoroughly "vetted"
by just about ALL the doctors you can imagine -- including MRI's, EEG's, etc. --
and they say that there's NOTHING physically WRONG with me ... But it's been
like this for most or all of the year, and it just scares the HELL outta me because
it's not getting any BETTER ... Even short DAY trips are fairly out of the question,
much less any of the places YOU mentioned ...

I really thought it would be getting BETTER by now, but it's NOT ...
And I really don't know what to DO ...

Kevin

[Sculpto]

Do what everyone is telling you.  You are making yourself more sick than you already are.  Sympathy is not going to change the fact that you need some discipline and direction. 

[veritas]

Gosh, and I thought my 2 months 5 days without sex are something extreme? Everything is learned in comparison, indeed  

I miscounted there, Olga_Mouse -- my last DATE was May 2006 ... My last SEX was January 2005 ...

[veritas]

Do what everyone is telling you.  You are making yourself more sick than you already are.  Sympathy is not going to change the fact that you need some discipline and direction. 

If you read what I wrote above, it's next to IMPOSSIBLE to do many simple things -- much less take trips ...

[pitbull]

GQBlues, those are all great things, but I can't actually do any of them at this time ...

I didn't mention them before, but I've got some on-going physical issues (at least 2010)
that are effectively preventing me from going much of ANYWHERE right now, and they
don't seem to be getting any better ... I've already been to a slew of doctors about
these -- including an excellent neurologist -- but there's nothing they can do 'cuz
all my test results came back just FINE ... They can find NO physical reason for
these symptoms, to wit:  shakiness (especially in the hands and fingers); off-
balance-ness (often leering to one side or starting to fall); extreme weakness,
especially in the extremities; extremely disturbed sleep; and more ...

It's gotten to the point where I literally almost cannot use the keyboard and mouse --
I practically have to hunt-n-peck now, whereas several years ago, I was a speedy
and accomplished typist ... I can barely move the mouse around (or properly click
the buttons) with my right hand, and so I usually have to cross over my left hand
to help, which is very awkward and tiring and sometimes doesn't help anyway ...
It's truly taken me "forever and a day" to write all of these (lengthy) posts ...

I routinely spill things, drop things, juggle things, (start to) fall into things, etc. ...
My hand and finger motions are jerky, twitchy, shaky, spasmodic, and generally
uncoordinated ... Multiple times, I've fallen forward (or backward), and -- if I'm
lucky -- caught myself, or broken my fall, before hitting the ground (sometimes
NOT) ... Anything that requires dexterity, etc., is extremely difficult for me, such
as tying shoelaces or removing "child-proof" caps ...

So Gator,

Do you still think dating (RW OR AW) should be ANYWHERE near the top of Kevin's list of priorities? Seriously 

It seems like women (other than friends) should off his list, likely indefinitely. Sorry