Odessa and AnastasiaDate. A Risky Proposition.

[neo]

and we will crack straight on, the typing i find keeps the recriminations at bay.

THE AFTERMATH:

I do not sleep. so many emotions, thoughts and confusion running through my head all night of how to handle this present reality.

1: i did this.
2; I DID THIS.

the question is if i had not done this would it have happened to me anyway? did i turn a sweet girl with good intentions into a shopping monster through my own lavish antics, or was she predisposed to do it anyway with or without my accelerated assistance?

I tend to think the latter, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. my ex would have shown restraint at that point (and did which is why i knew she was a keeper and she was only 1 year older than this girl).

as unpleasant as it was to clean up after the party it must be done, the worst possible outcome was not getting good closure and just having her dissapear into the ether and never know what happened.

so the next morning i prepped for the date. all the excitement, interest and hope was gone. instead of shaving and putting on a jacket i just went out looking a mess, i didn't really care about impressions at this point.

the taxi arrives and i get in. i know its another trip to an expensive resteraunt on the cards but its a tax i am willing to pay for the next installment in the debacle. I give my date a cursory greeting but no more and we head to the resteraunt, its a slightly cheaper place than the previous outings, not so cheap as to be normal you understand but just enough to show a degree of restraint after the previous encounter.

first hour passes and we barely say a word. she cannot even look me in the eye, if eyes are the window to the soul this girls were filled with the shame of a betrayal, my reaction had clearly disarmed her to proke some sense of remorse. what would happen next would either be a sincere bridge building exercise or merely smoke and mirrors to cover the getaway or attempt further fleecing.

I do not order much food. I decide we will have it out and tell her what i think, i tell her i did not think any sincere girl would ever behave like this, it was obvious to me she was not serious because she tells me she is this shy modest girl who does not like to talk and yet she showed now shyness or modesty in taking my AMEX for a spin.

she says she just got carried away and there was no malicious intent, i tell her she is a young girl and young girls are prone to doing stupid things, however good character and intentions are more important to me. if i did not teach her this lesson her life would just be trouble.

it was the typical aftermath of a night of boozy excess - recrimination and bad feeling both side. i told her we should put it behind us and what was done was done, i wished her luck in future. she asked if i wanted to see her again. i said that really depends on you.

and here is the TURN CHAPS. where naughty boy neo turns into RWD faithful.

i am not a reckless spending idiot.
i do not value materialistic things.
i am NOT impressed by expensive resteraunts.
girls who can shop like royalty DO NOT IMPRESS ME
i like nice things but i LOVE SIMPLE THINGS
for me romance is:
walking in the park
going to the cinema
holding hands
watching TV
reading a book on the beach together
taking a bus ride.

simple things - the delight of sharing TIME not SPENDING together.

thats right folks. Neo the bluffing bullshitter throws the whole boat 180' to stern to say ' you might think that i am some paycheck hero who will spend his way into your bed but the reality is i want to see you be a real, decent, sincere girl as well as a Prada queen'.

put that in your gucci handbag and smoke it.

so this is the acid test, i tell her, if you want to impress me, if you are serious about me SHOW ME YOU CARE ABOUT THE MAN NOT THE MONEY.

i am not mean. i like to spoil my girl. BUT IT IS EARNED.

when you PROVE to me that you are a caring, sincere, considerate person who values simple things not just expensive THEN you get the right to play sex and the city shopping Diva. NOT BEFORE!!!!

so the next date is down to you, choose something to do from my list and we will talk. the ball is in your court.

i settle the bill, a still expensive 800 UAH but at least its going down and get the ride back to my apartment, cough up the obligatory taxes to exit and head back to the apartment, again i expect never to hear from her again.

at this point i feel slightly better. i have good closure in one simple date.

i know she dun wrong, she knows she dun wrong, what we are establishing is WHY she dun wrong and what if anything was salvagable from the train wreck.

I get the nod later that she is 'busy tommorrow'

what a surprise. so i am thankful of some solo man time away from the women collective and decide to bum around the apartment and then take a jolly around Odessa.

I head over to the McDonalds and do a bit of people watching. as I watch the collection of normal pretty ukraine boys and pretty ukraine girls, obvious designer clad agency girls (only hookers and agency girls have this level of wardrobe at this age) i see the entire reality of the Odessa machine. yet another 60 year old american making a fool of himself as he meets some 19 year old slip of a girl for the first time. the other foreign guys being taken to the cleaners by their girls, and then i see the agency girl i saw not 2 days before dressed like a factory girl with her foreign beau dressed entirely in designer italian garb yakking on her iphone provided to enable 24/7 chatting / money making operations for her agency.

what a crock of shit.

NEXT UP:

THE FINAL ENCOUNTER

[Rubicon]

Well Neo like you said unfortunately you did invite this type of behavior on her part, it's just really too bad that she went berserk and to such excess.  I have a much smaller budget than you do, so when she asked for a limit I would have said $100.00  Call me cheap or whatever, we all have limits which we are comfortable with and which we expect the other party to adhere to, especially since as you so properly told her, she is not your fiance and not your wife; you are almost strangers on a second date.

It will be really interesting to see how she behaves for your lunch date tomorrow.  I say take her to some cheap dive and pick her some daisies for flowers from the sidewalk.

[neo]

Rubi,

you are completely correct. it does not matter if you set that limit at 10 USD or 1M USD its the respect for you that counts, she has to know that being good at financial management is required to keep your family life stable and out of trouble.

you don't have to wait for the lunch date. it already happened

[Rubicon]

Well I'm sorry that this young woman is not working out for you, like you say it's easy to write funny stuff but you do get emotionally invested in a woman whether you intend to or not.  I really think that you should try dating a woman 25 years old, maybe 27 years old.  In my opinion their inner beauty can more than compensate for the external beauty of a 22 year old girl.  It's tempting to always look at the young candy but at the end of the day sometimes a man has got to know his limitations, not only that but you deserve to be treated much better.  If you came from a poor background as you say and you really do appreciate the simpler things in life than you really owe it to yourself to start dating older women.  Best regards...

[SFandEE]

The shopping experience although wrenching--sounds well done on your part for assessing her character.  

Is it possible that trading in beauty for a Ukrainian woman is priceless.  Perhaps this market is ruined by wealthy or powerful men from the USSR, FSU, Middle East, Europe and US.  I wonder how a 22 year-old thinks $2,000 in cosmetics is proper.  This is a foreign mindset to me and although I value and enjoy the company of a beautiful woman, I do not value it without limit--it is not priceless to me.  The bigger, better deal for a woman who promotes herself as priceless always exists--there is always another "priceless" beauty on the market.  The BBD for her to a wealthy accomplished man is a young stud while using her sugar daddy's money for her wardrobe, jewelry, and travel.

Is this the heart of all beauty, or FSU beauty?

I wish I could see this young beauty--reference her to the women I have known in Ukraine.

A close Ukrainian friend and her friends were having an early dinner with me here in SF--they couldn't warn me more about Ukrainian women.  They will tear you, they tear all their men up.  Said with glee and self-recognition.  Having said this I have to believe that normal human love and devotion is possible for a FSUW.  Perhaps only towards an FSUM or an age appropriate WM, but it has to be possible.

Craziness.

[wicheese]

Neo,

I'm enjoying your entertaining read as your shopping experience does bring back memories of a watch shopping excusion.  My RW girlfriend walked me into a high end watch store at the Florida mall in Orlando (she was here on vacation).  I should have expected what followed as she often goes to Italy for her shopping, but at least she walked past the Breitlings and camped out by the Tag Heuers.  Not being a materialistic person, I almost fell over when I noticed the price (I'm a runner and my $30 Timex Ironman works just fine), but she was pretty insistent.  Well, this is where my story diverges as she was the one buying the watch for me and I politely declined and instead let her buy me a Citizen Eco-Drive on sale at Macys knowing full well I would end up with a Tag sometime in the future.

I only write this to let the newbie reader know that there are a lot of nice women in the FSU, but most of them are going to be older (30's) and will not be listed on any agency site (much less one associated with Aweb) as they have no need to make extra money or leave the country.

Cheers!

[neo]

THE FINAL DATE:

so this whirlwind was about to reach its climax. Having a day off was a damn good thing as it had given a natural break to the emotional side of things and i had elected to do what i do best and bury my personal feelings and concentrate on my work. so i fired up my laptop and just cocentrated on getting a few deals back on track to replace the financial outlay i had been undergoing. like a bad day at the tables as long as you come out even its fair dinkum. i still have a bloody good career to fall back on so whatever emotional damage i suffer its easily solved by some self indulgent pampering and a new sports car.

so i have started my day with a determined plan. At this point my date has been given every opportunity to come clean, be sincere, and behave in a way that she knows will secure our future together. I have given her my mobile number, email, facebook, twitter, skype - the whole lot. I suggested we just be friends on facebook and see how it goes. i have made it clear from just being platonic friends to full blown man, wife kids and dogs all options are on the table. i have also made it clear that if she so desires and we have a future together she will get all the trappings of a pampered princess. so she can't accuse me of being cheap, i have demonstrated while i will spoil her i am not willing to buy her affections, and i still have a moral code that expects her to behave in a responsible way and the reason for this is not meaness but a desire for her to build a good work ethic and personal character for her own sense of self worth and happiness. i have told her countless times yes i think she is beautiful but it is not enough - when she is old i want to still love her after her beauty fades and know she is my soulmate and best friend, therefore how she treats me is important as how she looks. she cannot rely on the latter alone.

So what i want to see for us to get to the next tier is simple: i want her to have taken on board that while i have shown a capability to live life to the full I am a simple chap who loves walking his dog in the park, hand holding, going to the cinema and the delight of company on a 10 dollar date as much as a night at the royal opera. this is all the truth. i was stupid once and would settle just for the arm candy but despite what you may believe i will not repeat my history - i want a decent friendship and future companion who can enjoy the simple pleasures in life not just the success hard work rewards deliver.

this is such a simple no-brainer of a deal. I am not sure how it will play, and I am not sure the result will actually be that meaninful whether she does not do it because she is too stupid to do it or she does not do it because she has no interest in doing it. in either case its a failed situation since if she cannot adapt and want to deliver something to me that brings me happiness, or simply has no interest in such things then our compatability is broken in any case.

so the driver arrives, where he will take us i do not know. i have taken out the cash to pay for the mean and decided on a hard cap of 1000 UA - about 130 USD and i will not use my card regardless of the destination. at this point if it is a really silly place then i am prepared to abandon ship and find my own way home.

as we drive across town we don't go near any parks. so my heart is already sinking. i know its not going to go well. after a long drive i realise we are heading back to maristella resort, and the resteraunt where i committed my champagne folly.

my heart just sinks. its just more of the same. high rolling dinner dates. despite having already said i am sick of tired of eating out in fancy places and just want a normal date its not been heeded.

i pay the driver, my date gets out, she is wearing a beautiful summer dress and looks the exact image of megan fox. but it is completely lost on me, i already know which way today will end. as the pussycat dolls sing 'i hate this part right here'

we go back to sit where it all began. i don't even want to sit through the lunch, every minute of my time now is just being wasted. my date and trans order and i just order a coke. i tell them straight i am sick and tired of such places, i eat in them with work every day and they simply do nothing for me - we have had 5 dates in a row like this and i wanted to do something else. but it was not listened to. i just get a coke and light up a cigarette. no point in even making a good impression now. i just want to go.

we spend the first hour in polite conversation, my dates mood has improved. she is still 'shy' but more positive than the last encounter. i no longer have any interest in her so i am just happy to talk to her platonically while she eats her meal. no point in spoiling lunch with a bad conversation,  i suggest i would like to go to the cinema on saturday and know the translator will be busy that day, my date makes no offer to join me so i know this relationship is already a dead duck.

i tell them i will go alone. no offer is still made. thats the final nail in the coffin, she doesnt tell me she is working, she does not tell me she will come but another time, she does not want to go to the cinema because the cinema probably does not pay commission quite as well as the ritzy resteraunts or she just likes a free lunch.

so thats it. realisation is upon me that this is all this will ever be, one long drawn out expensive 200 USD lunch or dinner date after the next - no forward movement, no progression, like groundhog day.

i decide to lead into things that i will be going on holiday and when asked who with i say probably a girlfriend, i do not know who yet, some girl i know back home. i want to see if she even reacts at this in a jealous way. still no reaction. she just does not care at all what i say or do.

i decide its time.

i tell her that she is clearly too young and too beautiful to be serious about me, and that i am just wasting my time. i really like her and was serious about her but for whatever reason shes clearly not into me and this is going nowhere.

not much of a reaction so far.

i think its best we are just friends.

nods.

i wanted us to be more, but i am looking for something serious and I do not think whatever we do this will happen for us, maybe she is waiting on another or maybe i am just not her man. i do not know but clearly she is not in to me.

she tells me when i first met her she did not think i was serious and come back.

i pointed out the irony that i was telling her this because i did not think she was serious about me.....but its stalemate. she will not disclose her position even though their is a chance of a lifeboat to save our future from drowning.

i tell her i had very much hoped we had a future together but its obvious to me that she does not feel the same so we are just wasting each others time going on, she does not want to spend time with me alone or share normal dates and i do not want to just keep coming to resteraunts like this.

and thats it. its over.

immediately my date bursts into conversation with the translator about all manner of girly things, i laugh at them, when they ask why i said you aren't so shy now! - i said if she had been like this from day 1 we would not be at this point but still the train is off the rails.

when clarifying the reasons for my decision to exit i did detect some visual sign of unhappiness at our situation but not enough to make me believe i had made my call to early and should have kept on pursuing her further. after 7 - 8 dates we simply were nowhere near where we would have been if she was serious and did really like me.


THE QUANTUM OF SOLACE:

Ian fleming described this as that eery sense of utter peace and calmness you feel when a emotional relationship ends before it dips into all the hurt and bad feeling that comes afterwards. it was a very brief calm of relief it was over. that everything that had been building up was now gone.

yes i was sad. i wanted her to say no that is not right, i like you, you are wrong i am serious. but nothing at all. not one shred to hang on to, for sure i could have kept chipping away at her for dates upon end hoping and praying she would like me enough but i honestly did not see it was going to happen, and the more i did this the more i would risk utterly falling in love with her and being at her mercy financially and emotionally and she could be just as calm as ice and toy with me as she will.

I would expect even a conservative girl would have changed her behaviour towards me over 8 dates, it did not seem to matter how good or how bad my behaviour it was just more of the same.

I can honestly say it was the hardest thing i have ever had to do in recent times. i triumph of common sense reasoning over heart felt emotion. its what we advise every noob on the board to do - when you know you are being played, or the situation does not feel 100% right then no matter your feelings for the girl walk away.

Have no doubt despite the problems i was really into this girl. if you ask me honestly why i risked all this its because she was from the outset everything i had been looking for, unfortunately despite my willingness to accept her faults and imperfections it was blindingly obvious that this girl was not going to be 'into' me enough for this to ever work out.  whatever her gameplan, whatever her motivations a serious relationship with me or even a trivial fiscally fuelled one was never on the cards. even with the risk of losing everything i offered her she made no concessions, no rescue plea bargain no offer of compromise.


she wasn't going to leave the agency. that was clear.

the 10 USD a hour for dating me, the chat bonus's, the competitions. clearly being single and having lots of dinner dates in expensive places with prospects of nice shopping trips far outweigh the love and adoration of a single man who could actually offer her the life she craves. she simply is not willing to give up what she has to be in a relationship, she clearly likes all the fringe perks whilst putting in non of the effort.

in essence, she is exactly what most of us expected a 22 year old model paid companion who gets lots of benefits without having to give up anything in return but time. she will be content to continue with this for however long she feels she wants to.

thats it chaps. Neo has FAILED!

i promised you i would admit it. i would not hide the cold hard truth.

what you are probably asking is could another guy succeed?

I know plenty want to wishful think that they can do what i did not and beat AW. but i simply do not think you can beat the system. this girl paid me lots of attention, she dated me every day. she told me how much she liked me. all the usual.

how much of it was real, how much of it a paid front we could possibly never know - only the girl could answer that. maybe i am genuinly not for her and another guy could steal her heart better. i do not know. honestly speaking i went into this on maximum attack, i studied her horoscope and character charts to determine the optimum match (how much is hokum is a question of opinion) and i did everything i could to try and tick all her boxes, we had a warm chemistry but when push came to shove we simply made NO progress in our time together beyond the same repetition of expensive dinner outings. even once i got her out of the agency everything in the end remained the same. same private taxi with expensive bill, same expensive dinner dates, same shopping outing, same expected 'taxi fare home' (her 10 USD hour companion fees).

we headed back in the taxi, and parted company. i would not say she was a crying wreck. if she had any emotional response to it she hid it well enough and i think any girl who was genuinly interested would have made at least an attempt to fight her corner - all my ex's certainly have not gone down without a fight if only to choose the exit date themselves to save their ego's.

I headed back to the apartment and had a good cry.

yes chaps, the unbreakable neo had a good cry over a girl. it has been emotional.

as much as i wanted to be paranoid and cynical i still had to invest a certain amount of myself to try and make this work normally, i still had to develop feelings for her that were based on honest feelings not what i was afraid of so when it did finally go south it hurt just as much as any loss of some dream you hoped for.

And i really DID want her to be the one, and you should all know that i feel just as hurt, cut up and unhappy now as any you guys have ever felt when things did not work out with a girl. i am not that cold hearted to feel nothing with someone i spent 7-8 dates of more than 5 hours each with.

but i am a realist.

i know the dream i had of this girl was just that - she had a nice personality, she had the looks but the person i wanted her to be was not the person she really is - that part is just a fantasy. she would never become my loyal soulmate because we had very different objectives in our time together and no matter what stunts i pulled to try and pull her objective into line with mine she was never going to do it because she was so far aligned in another direction it would take a huge effort to even try and on the balance of risk that simply was never going to stack up, there wasn't enough 'starting traction' to warrant a full blown campaign to win this girls heart. the fact i had made so little progress in 8 dates and 2 trips tell me that this is a unwinnable situation at any price.


so what did i really get out of it?

i got for the most part a nice vacation in Odessa with a beautiful companion, who while paid for was much cheaper than the equivelent girl of her calibre would charge for such a courtesan service.
I got my ego rubbed by a girl who probably was never serious about me laughing at my jokes.
i got some nice R&R
i got a great tale to tell you guys.
I learnt the truth about AW first hand.
I learnt about Odessa first hand.
I saw every single thing every guy complains about executed first hand.
I realised chasing 22 year old models from a fake dating site is a stupid waste of time. its cheaper to get a escort back home as you get more sex
I realised no matter what you do 22 year old girls have no serious intent in relationships even if you offer them a lamborghini.
i realised FINALLY that looks are not enough for me, i really do want the sincerity, character and love not just a party girl.
I learnt i have the strength to let my head rule my heart and stop me doing stupid things i know have no future.
I learnt no matter how much i like a girl, how hot she is, how much i want to sleep with her or be with her if she is no good for me i will walk away no matter how much it hurts to do it.

More than anything.

I have learnt the most damaging thing in the entire affair is the deception perpetrated - if i had met this girl on the street I would not have cared, its the fact had i not know the whole letter/chat/prospect thing was a fraud i would have been deeply emotionally scarred by the experience.

as it is i am merely a bit broken hearted that a girl i really liked turned out not to be the one, could not overcome her situation or find enough to like about me to want to change that situation.

I will always feel something for her - i think any unrequited love however brief is always a long memory.

but i know when to walk away.

so i decided rather than do this at the end of my trip when i would have to return to reality, let it happen so i had a few days solace to reflect and lick my battle wounds before heading back to pick up the pieces and start all over again.

i have gained a lot from the experience.

I no longer have any desire towards supermodels/victoria secrets models or girls who look this hot.
character really does overtake all. a 25 year old single mom is probably a much nicer companion than a spoilt 22 year old who believes in her own hype.

So when push came to shove, neo the eternal rulebreaker used a huge chunk of the 'tablets of stone' and most importantly knew when to take the chips off the table and walk away and suffer the losses.

Thats it folks, my rulebreaking experiment is over. I will put down the 'aw' candystore, step away from the table and be satisfied that this is

a: not worth the risks
b: not worth the rewards
c: loaded with failure at every turn
d: emotionally gruelling
e: expensive
f: pointless unless your point is to spend a lot of money on holiday for a shallow meaningless companion, in which case a escort agency delivers better value per dollar spent.

and for my side. what did i get out of posting this entire account?

well it could be argued i put my relationship at risk if she read it and did not think i was serious, but since i was as honest with her as i am with you guys she would not have learnt here anything i had not told her or was prepared to tell her.i have a policy of full disclosure.

the good side is when i came back after the break-up i was feeling sad, dejected, defeated and alone and cried. having to finish this saga here has actually dulled some of the pain of a failed dream by reminding me of where it started and the risks i faced, that it was perhaps invitable. and the support shown by some old board allies not to be judgemental but to understand what i was trying to achieve has been a good rock of support during these trying times.

i am really sad things did not work out better, maybe if i was a better guy they would have, maybe if she was a better girl they would have. but we are where we are and you can't change it. you can only take the hand you have been dealt.

i do believe if i kept the wheel spinning longer the end result would have been the same but messier, if it was just a case she is a very conservative girl and it would taken 100 dates to crack the ice then it would have been so horrifically expensive at 200 USD a dinner it would have defeated the object of the exercise and i would have been in a much bigger mess. unfortunately as stated there just wasn't enough traction between us after 8 dates compared with other girls i dated to really feel there was something worth fighting for that could be won, if she had shown more enthusiasm to get to the next stage it would be a different tale but its just too time consuming and expensive to do this kind of casual dating here and if i wanted a girl who was not prepared to be serious but just wanted to go shopping and 200 USD meals then its pretty bloody obvious to all there are plenty of LA girls who are game, you don't need to go to Odessa to have dinner with a hot chick, save the agency money and airfare and just get a courtesan or poor student who wants to live it up depending on whether you want sex or company.

I feel i proved one thing to myself, from my experience i learnt when to walk away cleanly and not keep flogging a dead horse, years ago i would have wasted 10,000's K's on this girl and many months or years. as it was she didn't seem serious enough after 8 dates so its time to walk.

let the flaming unleash!!!

[neo]

thanks guys for the earlier responses.

i give full credit to the secret of knowing when to walk away - 5 years with my RUSSIAN wife.

Russian girls know well tales of ukrainian girl excess, its why my wife always looked down on them as being shallow and materialistic and the whole country being corrupt to the core.

I learnt from her during our early dating what a sincere girl behaves like, she got me out of the agency (RLM) within 3 dates to go it alone even with no english, she would argue with EVERY taxi driver about the fare - one even threw the money back at her to which she laughed, picked it up and said 'free ride home'.

she would book coupe and then bribe the conductor to a first class upgrade as it was always cheaper than buying the ticket. she would take me on the bus to save taxi fares when we were broke. and when i wanted to utterly spoil her with shopping sprees she would always take me to a store with a big sale on or buy her designer gear discount so she got 3x the amount for the money. if a resteraunt was expensive and the food was bad she would refuse to pay the bill and go and lecture the chef.

she was a typical, strong willed russian woman of character.

so having dated both i would agree on average corruption is more endemic amongst UA girls than Russian and most of my Ukrainian and Russian friends do concede this as well. Odessa is probably the worst centre of this and so i am sure its reputation is well deserved.

there are no doubt some nice girls here - walking down the street i saw some very normal girls out with their parents dressed conservatively, but i think non of these will ever be agency girls so your only chance is to live here 6 months, make normal friends outside the agency world and learn the language but of course then you would have to settle for a very normal girl without a big age gap and without the ultra natasha ways.

[Chicagoguy]

She's still a girl. Only 22. Same as a college senior.

[SFandEE]

In spite of your stated emotions--I think you'll be fine.  You seem resilient and I believe that a man of quality can attract a woman of quality, especially since you are still in your 30s.

So this FSUW thing has been going on for how long?  12-15 years.  Maybe longer.  That means those 22 year olds are now 34.  Where are they now?

Ignored on AFA, EM?  Married (to whom-$$$, WM, UM), alone and well, alone and broken?

Do we have any FSUW posters who used to date for the money and the adventure and no sincere relationship interest.  Was it a job?  That would be interesting to hear more.  Since we don't have a name I will temporarily refer to her as Meagan Fox--MF .  MF will be 35 in 13 years.  What will MF be like then.  Will she be a mature, quality catch or a shallow, used up woman still in Odessa with some stories from her youth of how she was chased by wealthy men from all over the world.

Meagan will run her priceless course and pretty soon when compared to other women she will realize she is no longer priceless.  She will have a price.  I wonder what that will look like--hotel lobbies, western bars.

Neo--good luck to you.  Business is good.  

Other than your own discretion--is posting her profile or photo allowed?  It would add a lot to the thread to see her appearance and profile, her ID #.

[Rubicon]

I don't wish to "flame" you at all.  your first Russian wife sounds great in so many ways, she fought hard to protect your pocketbook.  It is really too bad that you were not compatible with her.  I really think that these young agency girls are much worse than a prostitute.  with a hooker you know exactly what you are paying for, how much it costs; and you usually get what you pay for.  there is no ugly deception whatsoever.  Love is blind, and you were blind to the fact that she was playing you, we all are at some point in our life.  I suspect there is a 99% chance that she has a Russian boyfriend and this agency thing is just a job to her and a way to stroke her ego, nothing more nothing less.

You were wise to cut your losses and you deserve a lot better.  When you finally settle down to an older and more mature lady, you will really begin to see her real beauty which you have been looking for.  She might have some wrinkles or whatever, but she will be so much more beautiful to you in your REAL life as opposed to the fake agency hype life that you will be truly content and happy with your good fortune in finding a real and genuine person.

[Aloe]

Sorry it didn't work out.
I do have a couple of remarks. If you go out with a girl and spend 500 on dinner, i see nothing wrong with 2k shopping, especially considering she asked 3!! times for the budget, and 2k is only 4 times more expensive than one dinner, so doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all. Her subsequent behavior does show that she doesn't care about you, but what i am saying is if you isolate that specific incident, within the context that you had a 500 dollar dinner the other day, then 2k does sound fine for a shopping trip, where she asked 3 times about a budget. So your reaction to it sounded to me way over the top blown out of proportion.
But her ensuing behavior does show that she isn't interested at all. I was a bit shocked to read that a couple of years before this you would have pursued her anyway.. Glad that you now know better than that.

[SFandEE]

I would disagree Aloe--I think it shows she has no respect for the work it takes to make money.  Her asking for a cap was most likely disingenuous and childlike.

What possible genuine reason could be given for spending $2,000 on cosmetics?  The point being that any well bred person would know this was poor form.  I would think not having a limit should have reigned her in if she were anything more than a dating mercenary.  What would have been wrong of her to pick out a face cream and nice perfume for $140, even if Neo had indulged her fancy for expensive restaurants.

Neo demonstrated that this was just business to her.  My position about women who join these sites for business reasons has been posted a lot with rebuke by others.  There is no moral way for women to be dating WM on these sites unless they are sincere.  It is a silly form of being an escort.

Maybe they have a nickname already that I don't know.  I would suggest "Program girls" or "Dating business girls"

[neo]

Aloe,

I get your point but i don't agree with it because it was not the dollar amount of the spend that was the issue but the fact it was just one big cosmetics spree.

I would have liked to seen more practical thinking at work. if she had chosen a iphone, a laptop, some jeans, shoes and 500 USD of cosmetics I would have been quite happy with the overall total since I would have seen she had at least given some thought to choosing things of practical application not just one thing.

It was the fact she went into one store and just went berserk that I had the issue because it shows a complete lack of self control, I do not think the 4x argument stacks water since you cannot justify that if I spend 3K on having my ferrari serviced she should be able to spend 12K at the spa.....especially since i earnt the money and have the right to determine how its spent.

You are right i did bring it on myself because to her credit she did ask 3 times if it was OK which did at least show she wanted approval, and thats why she got 50% of what she asked for

my argument overall was the fact i expected her to show the same level of modesty in her spending as she was showing in her courtship - if she had behaved like a high class hooker and jumped all over me she probably would have got 4x the amount she wanted the next day....

my point to her was she had not invested anything in the relationship at this point so why she expected me to invest 2K in her?

i did at least get the benefit of eating the meal and the benefit of the dining experience whereas the cosmetics were entirely for her benefit therefore a huge indulgence, if she had spent 2K on a laptop, iphone and set of english lessons to improve our relationship and 500 USD on cosmetics it would have been a entirely different outcome.

[neo]

I would disagree Aloe--I think it shows she has no respect for the work it takes to make money.  Her asking for a cap was most likely disingenuous and childlike.

this was the basis of my response to her: I pointed out that it did show a complete lack of regard for the hard work i had put in to earn than money that she thought it so amusing at the cashier how high the bill was. I pointed out she would have not found it so easy to spend or so funny if she had done the hours to work for it (about 3 months work probably including agency income). she did concede this point and said she would work for the other remaining 50% of what we left behind - which was the point i wanted to make, i expected her to contribute not just take.

also for the cap, SF&EE has it right - there served no purpose in having a cap because what i was looking for was what HER opinion of reasonable was not what MY opinion was reasonable was, i am not looking to be daddy to some little girl and give her pocket money, i expect her to be adult and responsible and be able to make good financial decisions. if as stated she had done what a 'normal' person would do which is choose a bottle of her favourite perfume, some lipstick, foundation, face cream and blusher and spent 250 - 500 bucks i don't think it would have been a big deal. it was the sheer quantity of the exercise that she pretty much picked up everything she ever wanted in one go that showed she was taking a short term view not a long term decision that she would get a little often rather than a lot at once.

It should be mentioned, i found out from my interpreter that she had been badly treated by her ex-boyfriend who basically used her and dumped her for the next one and she felt she got 'nothing out of the experience' its clear she was determined to make all future guys pay and therefore get as much as she could for doing as little as possible.

what was interested was far from being the nasty guy just trying to bed her, i was trying to reason with her that this kind of behaviour was bad for her psychology, and she commented more than once she thought i was a good, kind or nice person in such away that suggested i had presented her with a moral dilemma about her behaviour. that its fine to do this when the guy deserves it but if you do it to a guy who actually cares about you and hurt his feelings in the process you go from victim to perpetrator very quickly.

i will be interested to see what happens with her over the coming weeks/months/years. I left it open for her to change her mind, having planted the 'inception' in her head that her behaviour isn't right and not all guys just want to bed her, perhaps she will think better of her need to punish all guys for the sins of her ex since the only person who is ultimately going to suffer is her.

[Aloe]

Well you seem to think dinner is worth more than make up. But to me it seems the other way around. Dinner is a money waste, you ate it and it's gone, poof 500 down the drain in 1 hours time. While cosmetics is something she uses to look good for you and 2k worth of it will last at least 6 months instead of 1 hour.

[SFandEE]

Although directed towards Neo--

So if Neo would have taken her to a Cafe for $30 she would have had proper respect for Neo and not used his generosity as a spending spree beyond $120 in cosmetics.

What is Meagan's responsibility in proper behavior concerning spending and respect for money, especially for the money of others.

Do you think she behaved this way because she thought it was proper?
If not, did she earn this money by sitting across from a WM and eating his food.  If the restaurants provide her or her employer kick-backs for taking her to their restaurant is that proper?

$500 on dinner does not translate to $2,000 in cosmetics  That is Ukrainian program girl math if it does.

[Jumper]

Neo-
I'm really sorry it dint work out.

Hey, she *could* have been that sincere girl, that saw something special in you.

She simply wasn't, or dint see that unique TO HER vibe in you,
to perhaps catch her heart..
it's the chance you took, and knew damn well it was a very long shot,
just like it would be with any Monte Carlo ,LA, or NYC girl ..

IF anything in my opinion,if she had some real spark to you,
  you would have known by her actions the second or third date max !!!!

 certainly the return trip, and you'd never need to utter or qualify when or if there ever would be a lambo or any other "trinket" (even a very young woman can easily recognize you can provide well enough,and  would see your generosity easily enough in quick time)

I think there are plenty there like your ex.
 You picked a city and agency you knew made the odds much longer, you know dang well i don't blame you

Yet there is no doubt you took the very longest odds possible.
A young Monte Carlo diva would be as easy to charm , and you'd start out on more equal footing regardless, and what would those odds be?
pretty much random like any other dating..
You'd accept those the same ,as this set of odds, so its all the same?


Perhaps the ultimate irony is, despite the location,and  the agency runaround,
there are 100 beautiful Odessa women (even listed in the agency)
wondering why the heck you hadn't seen something in them (instead of MF)

Good Luck Neo!

[Aloe]

my point to her was she had not invested anything in the relationship at this point so why she expected me to invest 2K in her?

This is a very good point.

Back to the shopping, i think it's wrong to judge somebody's entire character based on one shopping trip. If she stocked up on her make-up for the next half year in one go, it doesn't mean she will spend gazillions on every trip to the store. Some people prefer to buy what they need every month and keep returning every month. Some stock up for half a year in advance and don't set foot in the store for next half year unless they need something small.

Now buying half a year's supply on somebody else's tab who isn't even your boyfriend is a separate topic  

[Rubicon]

Aloe,

as Neo pointed out to her very succinctly she was not his fiance or wife.  I really do not know why some women have such a sense of entitlement in situations like this; and than in other situations demand "equal" rights.  that is of course a whole other argument, but like SF&EE said if she had any proper breeding she would not have tried to rip Neo off.  I personally do not like women who need to wear too much makeup and see no reason why they would need more than $100 to $200 of the stuff for any six month period.  That industry probably has a 1000% markup, Vanity, Vanity.  Such vain beauty will be long gone by 30 something and all that will remain will be a dried up prune.

Neo I hope you were not offended by my earlier comment, I realize it seems that you still have feelings for this girl, I just think you can and should do a lot better.

[tim 360]

I knew this bump was coming.  No reason to mourn this relationship Neo since there really wasn't one--just an experiment.  My take on the $2K is since you set no limit she was going for all she thought she could get from you.  Probably thinking you would be gone in a couple days anyway she piled it on.  She's young at 22,  if she was a better player she may have strung you along for months and your dollar tally would have greatly increased.  She just didn't know how to play you.  It's good you kept your wits about you.  There is always anothe fool coming in to Odessa to date her, no worries there.

 I know a guy who got suckered by a real player, VS agency type, for over 6 months.  I warned him but his brain wasn't operating.  In the end it got ugly.  In that short time he blew over $20K directly on that one girl on clothes and gifts and you name it, even gave his "fiance"  a grand and a half a month so she didn't have to "work" so hard.  He finally found out the hard way that he was one of her many foreign fiances and she had a UA BF.  The agency and her fiances paid her very well.  These girls may have a job, but they can make alot of money with the agencies.

I'm glad you are now cured of arm-candy-disease.  Peace.

[Aloe]

Aloe,

as Neo pointed out to her very succinctly she was not his fiance or wife.  I really do not know why some women have such a sense of entitlement in situations like this; and than in other situations demand "equal" rights.  that is of course a whole other argument, but like SF&EE said if she had any proper breeding she would not have tried to rip Neo off.  I personally do not like women who need to wear too much makeup and see no reason why they would need more than $100 to $200 of the stuff for any six month period.  That industry probably has a 1000% markup, Vanity, Vanity.  Such vain beauty will be long gone by 30 something and all that will remain will be a dried up prune.

Neo I hope you were not offended by my earlier comment, I realize it seems that you still have feelings for this girl, I just think you can and should do a lot better.

See, if i go out with someone and he shells out 500 for a dinner (which in my eyes as we already established is a total waste of money), it tells me he does not care about wasting money. So my logic would be, if he doesn't mind totally wasting 500 for 1 hours entertainment, then why wouldn't he spend 2k on something i actually use to look good for him and that i will use for the next 6 months instead of 1 hour?
By the way, 100 won't even get you a good foundation cream, let alone everything else.

[The Natural]

WOW! Respect! Thank you for sharing your story Neo. It's very thoughtprovoking indeed.

[SFandEE]

I just don't see the relative logic on $500 for dinner for two or three at her place of business translates to $2,000 in self-gift giving at the cosmetics store (kick-backs there too, or at least a generous return policy).  Wish I could understand this logic, because I know you are clever.

She gives the presentation that she is dating for money and gifts.  Is that a good reason to be dating?  Is that the reason she gave for her interest in dating?  Does that translate better into a quality wife or paid companion.  What is she auditioning to be?  A wife or an escort.  She likely doesn't have the ability to move to Western Europe without marriage intentions.

Would it be okay for her to be indulging herself in this manner if she has a Ukrainian boyfriend?

Is her behavior really okay?  Parent approved?  Culture approved?  She could be just a confused girl with a wealthy man that wants her company on dates and rather than give her money is offering $2,000 in creams and body deodorant.

[Rubicon]

...she had a UA BF.  The agency and her fiances paid her very well.  These girls may have a job, but they can make alot of money with the agencies.

she had a Ukrainian boyfriend...guess who got to spend all of her money AND sleep with her??

I'm glad you are now cured of arm-candy-disease.  Peace.

Let's hope so.  Real love closer to your age is so much better for your health!!