I'm new here

[Shadow]

Unless DJ has incredibly thin skin (which I don't think is the case) I disagree with both parts in bold above.

I've seen folks come on here and get reamed (mostly for being stupid which DJ is not).  Is he self absorbed? Surely so.. it comes with his territory, so what.. he knows this himself.

a WASP gets reamed, a Goth or anyone else that is a bit different kid gloves are put on..  I think we're getting a bit too PC with 'S' hanging around looking for any bandwagon to jump on, trying to hijack the board in any direction but FSU.

DJ is Goth.. so friggin what..  He has some issues upstairs.. (we all do).. so friggin what.

I detect an intelligent being underneath whatever 'cover' he wears. If anything he'll probably get turned off more by someone 'covering his back' when he really doesn't need it or want it.  He's an adult and like you and me look both ways when crossing the street.  I doubt he relishes the thought of someone holding his hand to cross.

Condescending.. that's the word I was looking for..  Is that what we need to be?

Indeed... so what if he is Goth, Catholic, Satanist, Republican or Democrat.
He was not seeking outside his field of reference or lifestyle, and explained that what captured him was precisely that the girl seemed to share this.

So why concentrate on him being Goth and throwing out tons of advice on him having to change ? Would it be appreciated if someone would jump on to the next guy who tells he is a proud Christian and tell that unless he drops his lifestyle he is doomed  and can not find a wife ?

Its his life, and his to waste if he wishes to do so. I am not going to hold his hand or pat his back for being who he is, but I am also not going to tell that he has to drop the way he has lived his life just because I happen to disagree with the philosophy.

[Blues Fairy]

I disagree with Blues Fairy's analysis of "curing" depression (or bipolar disorder), as it can't be cured, though it can be managed. 

Please point where exactly I said bipolar disorder could be cured?  I spoke of DEALING with it. 
In the case of my husband, depressive episodes still surface sometimes but in a much less pronounced way and do not affect our marriage. 

[Vaughn]

Its his life, and his to waste if he wishes to do so. I am not going to hold his hand or pat his back for being who he is, but I am also not going to tell that he has to drop the way he has lived his life just because I happen to disagree with the philosophy.

The heart of the matter is this: 4 cancellations in 2 years. All Goth aside, he's in the same category
as those who never bother to visit for whatever reason - or flat out never planned to.

[groovlstk]

There's the straw... took a redneck and pompass cheerleader/soccer mom to do it.

This is my final post... no defence no more attacks... I quit

I hope you all are forced one day into the reality that is mine and live it for real.

Gothman, I hope one day you DO visit Ukraine to find this woman. While you're there, take a walk around. Note the homeless children living in open sewers because it's the only shelter they can find, the babushkas who brave subzero temperatures to beg for a few grivna each day, the men who pass out in parks at 10AM after drinking a liter or more of vodka.

This is everyday reality for many Russian and Ukrainian people.

You can grind your teeth and profane the cosmos all you wish from your comfortable home in the US, but I suspect Russian and Ukrainian folks will have zero sympathy for your plight. You may find a trip to an impoverished nation as a strong antidote for your learned helplessness.

[ECOCKS]

As this was progressing I found myself thinking that to many here, life in the FSU could be considered a bit "gothic". This is probably one reason for the lack of commitment to the true gothic philosophy and the view of several that it is merely a fashion statement or symbol of non-conformance.

[dogspot]

He is very misleading to the NEWBIES who visit our site.

If somebody wants to tie a cross on their back and carry it around the forum trying to save the delta smelt, gay's, illegal aliens, goth's and just about any other cause that runs contrary to popular belief, that's OK with me (although it is slightly irritating at times :evil:).

But when he starts doling out misleading advice to Newbies, then he should be called on it and dealt with by the powers that be.

GOB

I assure you, GOB..Sculpto was anything but misleading during the chat the other night. The advice he gave DJ was sound. He certainly gave him a kick in the arse and a reality check as to what he was getting himself into. His advice was not sugar coated but genuine and factual.

[GQBlues]

Indeed... so what if he is Goth, Catholic, Satanist, Republican or Democrat.
He was not seeking outside his field of reference or lifestyle, and explained that what captured him was precisely that the girl seemed to share this.

So why concentrate on him being Goth and throwing out tons of advice on him having to change ? Would it be appreciated if someone would jump on to the next guy who tells he is a proud Christian and tell that unless he drops his lifestyle he is doomed  and can not find a wife ?

Its his life, and his to waste if he wishes to do so. I am not going to hold his hand or pat his back for being who he is, but I am also not going to tell that he has to drop the way he has lived his life just because I happen to disagree with the philosophy.

Democrat?!?  :hairraising: But I agree with the rest of the post.

DJ's Goth lifestyle is a product of his health condition. Manic-depression is incurable. Even during treatment there's always a fine line separating a balanced to an unbalanced condition. Maybe in goth, DJ can at least find solace or retreat from this curse.

He is not a criminal and had committed no crime. He obviously has no hurt anyone because people struck with this ailment are generally left alone as long as they have not hurt anyone. If DJ is clinically diagnosed with this condition, chances are his clinical record is likely enough for IMBRA regulated condition to deny his application of sponsorship.

Just a little over a day ago this man was saying how everyone seem so helpful and understanding had been on this thread...how quickly this turned around for him.

To add to the irony in this is, people in this thread even started to discuss his skin layering when it was never his skin that was ever in question in the first place.

[GoodOlBoy]

There's the straw... took a redneck and pompass cheerleader/soccer mom to do it.

Jeeez, I have been called a lot of things before, But....Never a pompass cheerleader/soccer mom!  :evil:


GOB

[Sculpto]

You have hit on something here Vaughn that has been stated over and over again by MANY other member's here on RWD.

He is very misleading to the NEWBIES who visit our site.

If somebody wants to tie a cross on their back and carry it around the forum trying to save the delta smelt, gay's, illegal aliens, goth's and just about any other cause that runs contrary to popular belief, that's OK with me (although it is slightly irritating at times :evil:).

But when he starts doling out misleading advice to Newbies, then he should be called on it and dealt with by the powers that be.


GOB

Blow it out your narrow minded arse GOB.  Do you even know a single Goth?  Have you ever even spoken to someone who identifies that way?  Have you been tot he same scam agency he is corresponding through? 

You are way out of your league kid.

Show me one way I have steered Dj the wrong way.  Don't obfuscate or make a hysterical scene.. just deal with facts.  Show one single thing I have said that is leading him the wrong way.

[Sculpto]

 

I see a differnce here between two things.

As far as the advice on how to handle the situation with his girl, DJG got sound advice.
However it was accompanied by an number of people who decided to criticize his lifestyle and culture he feels good in.

One may or may not agree with it, but DJG has the right to live his life as he feels right. By attacking his philosphy insted of concentrating on his situation, we did not do him a service.

 

[Sculpto]

The board is about international relations. he had advises about what to do. he answered by referring to his life style as justification of his fantasies. I can not imagine a woman leaving her country/friend/family falling with a depressed man with a big ego. This is not a critic about his life style, this is a critic about using a life style to justify a behavior. 

Doc.. and your posts reflected that view, which, is exactly the kind of thing he needed to hear.  Some others went way too far. 

[Sculpto]

The heart of the matter is this: 4 cancellations in 2 years. All Goth aside, he's in the same category
as those who never bother to visit for whatever reason - or flat out never planned to.

Thats a good point Vaughn and that is one of the things that should have been discussed instead of bashing his psychology.  The lady, if real which I doubt, was clearly pushing for him to get off his butt also. 

If people understood better the nature of manic depressive behavior had we gotten him focused instead of contributing to his alienation he might have been in the right frame of mind to actually go.  Now, he has simply crumbled.  He came here for help and instead got the exact kind of inappropriate brow beating that made him what he is.  We could have done better, a lot better.

[Sculpto]

Gothman, I hope one day you DO visit Ukraine to find this woman. While you're there, take a walk around. Note the homeless children living in open sewers because it's the only shelter they can find, the babushkas who brave subzero temperatures to beg for a few grivna each day, the men who pass out in parks at 10AM after drinking a liter or more of vodka.

This is everyday reality for many Russian and Ukrainian people.

You can grind your teeth and profane the cosmos all you wish from your comfortable home in the US, but I suspect Russian and Ukrainian folks will have zero sympathy for your plight. You may find a trip to an impoverished nation as a strong antidote for your learned helplessness.

Groov.. that could not have been better said.  Thanks!

 

[Ade]

Thats a good point Vaughn and that is one of the things that should have been discussed instead of bashing his psychology.  The lady, if real which I doubt, was clearly pushing for him to get off his butt also. 

If people understood better the nature of manic depressive behavior had we gotten him focused instead of contributing to his alienation he might have been in the right frame of mind to actually go.  Now, he has simply crumbled.  He came here for help and instead got the exact kind of inappropriate brow beating that made him what he is.  We could have done better, a lot better.

But dude, if he "crumbled" from the posts I've seen here from complete strangers, what hope would he have of actually succeeding in this endeavour? Seriously, he has no business messing with a young woman's life until he's in a far more stable state of mind.

[Sculpto]

But dude, if he "crumbled" from the posts I've seen here from complete strangers, what hope would he have of actually succeeding in this endeavour? Seriously, he has no business messing with a young woman's life until he's in a far more stable state of mind.

I dont disagree SJ and told him so.  But, my point is twofold.. one.. a trip to Ukraine might be just what the doctor ordered and two.. he did not deserve to be ridiculed.

[Blues Fairy]

he did not deserve to be ridiculed.

Everyone deserves to be ridiculed.  :evil:

[Sculpto]

Everyone deserves to be ridiculed.  :evil:

So then you wont mind me saying ..........

BTW Blues.. you have inspired me to create a very very small work of art, tiny even.. I should have it completed next week.. or certainly before I leave for Thailand.. I will post.. i am sure you will love it. 

[OlgaH]

Important part about his girlfriend that djgothman has written is:

We've known each other almost 2 years, exchanged countless emails and chatted all this time and although it probably seems crazy to most people, I really think this girl might be the one.

I worry about my trip. I try to estimate how much things will cost… wonder how I’m going to get around. I’ve done massive studying about the Ukraine and Russia but probably not as much essential information as its history and culture. I’ve been doing a lot of online research as I think possible… I’m even going to try and learn some phrases and the alphabet at least. I guess I’m really nervous about the whole thing.

I'm goth. It's the subculture I'm a part of but it's more of a course of philosophy for me as I've never felt truly a part of the mainstream. Alina is also a goth and that was a unique and lucky thing to find. We have so much in common in the way we see the world.

Alina has given me that hope for a better future... to feel love once again... a sense of purpose and direction. She's inspired me... comforted me. She's given me the ability to see beyond the now and look to the future... a future where we will be together.

Alina and Mark can be very helpful to each other in their life. It is very important for a relationship to have so much in common. One of his question was is she is for real and if they really have so many things in common. How to check it? He needs to visit her. His other question was about a financial side of trip to Ukraine...

I have so many questions like this... questions that could potentially burst my bubble of faith. I'm afraid to ask the questions I need to ask. It's more important to be informed than blindly proceed however it's frightening.

I agree with Shadow that critic on his lifestyle and culture along with "home-bred" psychotherapy by the members accompanied with personal insults and ridicule is not helpful.  He was right in his foreboding "I'm afraid to ask the questions"

[Gator]

The last thing we should do is encourage DJ to pursue RW. 

People with manic depression can be happily married, yet it takes a very special spouse.  IMO such could not be determined until after spending a long time together.  The geographic separation and the legalities of the process makes this impossible unless DJ moved there, and I don't see how taking him away from his therapy would be safe for him.

My 29-yo son had two bipolar friends in high school.  One takes his meds and manages his condition, working as a school teacher.  He is now married and has a healthy baby. The wife is a real sweetheart.  My son's other friend committed suicide 3-4 years ago.

The mortality rate is high for people with bipolar disorder, either by their own hand or through reckless behavior.  Marrying a RW and helping her adjust to life in America stretches my patience and questions my sanity.  To add bipolar to the equation....... the risks would be too high.
 

[Vaughn]

Excellent post, Gator.

I agree with Shadow that critic on his lifestyle and culture along with "home-bred" psychotherapy by the members accompanied with personal insults and ridicule is not helpful.

I agree on the personal insult and ridicule part, Olga - but the lifestyle and culture critique was spot on. As I said
earlier, the culture encouraged my daughter to reject any real help for her illness. While that rejection was her
voluntary choice, I held the entire subculture partly responsible for the delay in getting her life back on track.

He was right in his foreboding "I'm afraid to ask the questions"

No surprise to me. Ask yourself why he should be afraid. Confrontation with real life issues is
quite unpalatable until one is ready to exit the culture and make committed progress toward
a functional state of mental health. When one gets past the "Nobody Loves Me" syndrome that's
worn like a badge, miracles begin to appear. If only he would entertain the thought that things
can improve without the crutch...

[GoodOlBoy]

The last thing we should do is encourage DJ to pursue RW.

I agree with you completely Gator. 

It's like inviting Micheal Jackson over to babysit your children. :evil:

Personally, I have to much respect for FSUW to unleash our social sickos on them.

If we continue to "encourage" the kooks, misfits and riff-raff who show up here at our doorstep, to chase after RW, I really fear that RWD will soon be overrun with them (news travels quickly ).

After all, RWD already has a few "in house", we really don't need any more. 


GOB

[OlgaH]

No surprise to me. Ask yourself why he should be afraid.

A person with a bipolar disorder came for advice and what he received is a "drama queen" thrown in his face and allegation that he will drag Alina into his suicidal world, when he wrote

I even became a newspaper publisher for a regional scene for 2 years...  It paid off in the way that I truly DID help those who had no one else in their worlds. This was my true reward for my efforts and my "risk".

 Take a look at the suicide rate amongst us. I consider myself a true survivor... and I try to impart my strength on others like myself.

It is not about to encourage or discourage him, but about giving him a true information about whole adventure without group psychotherapy. He is not an idiot and can decide through information if he will be able to handle it or not. Least of all a person with a bipolar disorder need to be humiliated. But that was exactly what he got here - heartlessness.

[Vaughn]

But that was exactly what he got here - heartlessness.

Yeah, that's regrettable, IMO. He allowed that to overshadow some very good advice from
several posters.

The name-calling is quite out of hand lately.

GOB, I won't dignify your latest post by quoting it.

[OlgaH]

People with manic depression can be happily married, yet it takes a very special spouse  

But how do we know that Alina, who during two years has been giving him a support (as Mark wrote), can not be his very special spouse? We don't know. And Mark really doesn't know. He needs to meet her face to face first. Can he handle the trip to Ukraine financially is one issue. And he asked the question about cost here. Can he handle the trip as a person with bipolar disorder is other issue. And he can talk about it to his doctor.  

[Daveman]

Well, we certainly don't know the whole story, and aside from him needing to get laid (yeah, one track brain I know), he's canceled on this girl four times.  She deserves better than to be strung along for eons waiting for her knight in... er... Goth in Macabre Black Cloth to come to see her.  So, I think he owes it to her to do whatever it takes to get his butt over there. If she's a fantasy, then those are the breaks... but if the lady is real, and she cares for him, she can make up her own mind about his suitability for a future together.  BUT, he needs to get his plan together and go...

Who knows? they could be perfect for each other...