Different perceptions of RW and UW

[Mir]

Mod1/Dan

I totally agree with you and don't want to engage in this debate with Wiz on this board anymore.

[Mir]

Super

You are right to point this out.
But the thing is that the female to male ration of 1 to 1.05 in the under 15 group will not change into 1 to 0.52 as soon as we get to age 65. So there should be a gradual decline in the number of men as years go by specially in late 50s and 60s which would be the average age for men in FSU.
So if we can get figures for 20-40 age group where women would be sought after for marriage I doubt there will be much excess (if any) of women vs. men

[ScottinCrimea]

The ratios are really irrevelant.  You only need to find one who is crazy enough to marry you, like I did.  Like one person said, "I can marry anyone I please.  The problem is that I don't please anyone."

[WmGO]

I agree with Nat, Gator, ScotinCrimea, and Pike that there are no significant differences between Ukrainain and Russian women. This should not be a surprise because they are part of the same East Slavic Russian culture. Of course, within that culture you will have variation just as with any other culture.

For the record, I have traveled extensively in both countries as well as a long history of studying Russia and the SU so I have at least some kind of basis to form my opinions on this question.

Here are some more observations and that is all they are:

1. Traveling from the north of Russia to the south of Ukraine is somewhat similar in a way to traveling from New England to the southern part of the States. Here is what I mean: the further south you travel the more laid back and easy going people generally are. Of course there are exceptions.

2. People in the giant cities like Moscow, St. Pete and Kiev are going to be a little different from smaller cities just like what you would expect to see within any country. Big city people are a little different from small city and country people. Being in Moscow is like being in NYC. Yes, being in Moscow is really truly being in Russia but it is not going to be representative of the whole country.

3. Just as some folks from NYC or Boston may have a superiority complex over folks from the rest of the country, especially the southern half of the country, Muscovites tend to have a superiority complex over the rest of Russia and of course Ukraine. This is only natural.

4. The half of Ukraine that is on the east side of the Dneper River is virtually identical in all respects to Russia. This should be no surprise because the majority of people there are "ethnic" Russians and was the most heavily Russified. The western one third is definitely more Russian flavored than anything else, but they do have a stronger spirit of independence, but that just refers to political mentality rather than characteristics of women.

5. I agree with Wiz that FSUW are very secretive. I think this is a historical phenomena attributable to Russian and Soviet history that just carries over into people's general way of doing things. I can only imagine what it must have been like to live in the SU where noone knew who to trust, every apartment buliding had its informants and people lived in fear of receiving the knock on the door in the middle of the night. It is better to be secretive than to be the tall blade that gets cut first.

6. Jazzy reminds me of Tootsie from the old PL board  -sweet and lovely and always pulling for Moscow!

7. The one place in the FSU that had the most Western feel to it at least for me is St. Petersburg. Whereas any other place will look and feel 100% Russian St.Pete has a mild feel, just a mild flavor, of the the West. Still mostly Russian, but you can feel a little wind of Westernism that makes it quite a lovely place to visit.

All in all the bottom line is that there is not a significant detectable substantive difference between RW and UW and I think that most of the subtle differences maybe perhaps relate to geography more than anything.

That is just my two kopeks worth. Your mileage may vary.

. 

[Admin]

6. Jazzy reminds me of Tootsie from the old PL board  -sweet and lovely and always pulling for Moscow!

William,

Tootsie married Duane (also of the PL board), they were together on the US West Coast for a time, and then I understand they divorced. Not too sure what has become of her since.

And BTW - just *wait* till Elen starts in on the NON-Muscovites!

- Dan

[Jazzyclassy]

        William,

Tootsie married Duane (also of the PL board), they were together on the US West Coast for a time, and then I understand they divorced. Not too sure what has become of her since.

And BTW - just *wait* till Elen starts in on the NON-Muscovites!

           

It is my right to pull whenever I want and it is not necessary Moscow:P

just  if I was living in the other city I would be protective of it  , it is natural:)

[Bruno]

Mir and others, I think what you are missing here is not that the ratios are similar.  Rather, if you look, there are in the 15-64 year age group, in Ukraine there are approximately 1.3 million excess women, and in Russia approximately 3.4 million excess women compared to men.

Guys, all this subject about demographie was already spoken in detail on RWD... learn to use the "search" function...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1094.msg26767#msg26767
These post with pyramide of age, 5 year range, show that women become more that men around 39 year old... women over 39 y.o are not really the main catagorie seek by Western man...

Some have say that locally, in some regio/city, the number of women can be more high... wrong !
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1094.msg26793#msg26793

Richard have say that Tver was the city of Bride... wrong, it is the city of Babouska !
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1094.msg26797#msg26797

For these of you who understand Russian or Ukrainian, follow the links to the census of the respective country... data from "CIA hanbook" are based on these census but these data are more complex and detailled on the FSU site...

[Mir]

Bruno

Your data supports my theory that if Western men want to take advantage of the demographic imbalance between number of men and women, they need to aim for the babushka group.

[Gator]

WmGO makes an excellent comparison.   I am not sure what you mean by "The western one third is definitely more Russian flavored than anything else, but they do have a stronger spirit of independence."  Western Ukraine has a small and diminishing Russian flavor.  Most of the marriage agency action is in the eastern third, Kiev, and the south.  Western Ukraine has much fewer numbers of women listed with marriage agencies.  I attempted for a long time to find an interesting woman living near the Carpathians, and had no success.

Rivardco, in my book your definition of a sex tourist as “being out of his league” is wrong.  For an accurate definition, read what Turbo wrote:  “whose sole goal is to have sex with women with no intention of a serious relationship”.   Your definition suggests that it is acceptable for a handsome man to make false promises and boink FSUW who are stupid enough to believe him.

Moderators - why did you stop this little spat between Mir and Wiz.  Based on the quote “I would welcome the chance to produce the evidence … photos sent on MSN”, I thought we were about to see nude photos of Wiz.  

[Mir]

Western Ukraine is more Ukrainian.

[Turboguy]

1. Traveling from the north of Russia to the south of Ukraine is somewhat similar in a way to traveling from New England to the southern part of the States. Here is what I mean: the further south you travel the more laid back and easy going people generally are. Of course there are exceptions.

3. Just as some folks from NYC or Boston may have a superiority complex over folks from the rest of the country, especially the southern half of the country, Muscovites tend to have a superiority complex over the rest of Russia and of course Ukraine. This is only natural.

I am saying this as a joke so please don't anyone take this personal.

Wm,  Can you then explain Texas to me?

[IAmZon]

Gator, my friend, I would not say that being a sex tourist is being "out of ones league."  That is something that ONLY JB would think Rivardco would say:)

I said that sex tourist was a general label whose primarily indictments are:
deception
insincerity;
and something else
(very close to Turbo's)

I said that I presume the STING - the INSULT - is a result of most men being pathetically out of their league (meaning that the woman was already negotiating with a internal compromise). 

[jb]

That is something that ONLY JB would think Rivardco would say:)

Are you deliberately trying to provoke me?  Do not speak your words and then attempt to put them in my mouth.

[Turboguy]

I have a feeling most sex tourists don't worry a lot about "out of their league"   I am sure they try for it but I think they will go for any conquest they think they can.   Sorta like "The girls always get prettier at closing time" concept.

[IAmZon]

Provoke would be a too strong of word ... I think "dink" will do

[Admin]

Provoke would be a too strong of word ... I think "dink" will do

Are you deliberately trying to provoke me?  Do not speak your words and then attempt to put them in my mouth.

Guys,

Please try to get along and be civil with one another.

- Dan

[Erwin]

Russian women are dull, expressionless faces, secretive, very jealous, ignorant of good manners, stubborn in the their ignorance, lacking social skills......and in general very insecure and not very pretty. Just plain Jane's....never say please or thank you, same as their Russian sisters, not afraid to use sex as a matter of course to achieve what the want and of course more accessible.

Wiz,

You sound so bitter about these women....Are you speaking from your own personal experiences?  If so, how did you meet them?  Internet?  Agencies?

E

[Turboguy]

I have a feeling Wiz is a little down over his recent experiences.  I don't think it is so much that he is bitter E, it is more likely some of the disappointments from what he has gone through.

I am sure if he really felt that he would not have made trips looking for a mate there.   Sometimes we need to have a little compashion and if Wiz finds the right RW he will be singing their praises.

[Jazzyclassy]

           Muscovites tend to have a superiority complex over the rest of Russia and of course Ukraine. This is only natural.
         

No it is not true , there is no complex  at all, I think just some misunderstanding   but it is never complex , I have no problems with the rest of Russia


it is just I never took working places from some girls lets say your fav Ukraine and they did , so what are you talking about here, practically none of you have an idea of how it works here, you only judge and see it from out there, please hear what the people say who actually are melting in this pot for a long time already since birth

I know the system so you can pull the leg with your splendid Ukrainians and those people who come to Moscow seeking for a better life and arranging messes here, becomes sl-ts or even more try to take away the hubbies from Russian women

and after all that you will tell me who has superiority complex? do not make me laugh really, if we had such complex believe me there would be like 1 % of Ukrainians, Moldavians, Georgians, Azerbaijanian  and other people from former Republic, we are too kind I should say

Go to any market place in Moscow and you will see no Russian person there practically

If they are so independent why do they keep coming to Moscow, where there is no more USSR, why?


I would never ever had any problem with all those people if they did not establish their culture into our Russian culture

Russian woman  differers from Ukraine with the fact that if she comes to another country she tries to adopt and do like the other people do follow their traditions and so on , of course preserving her own culture , and ukraine woman is trying to boss her own culture everywhere she goes

That is my personal point of view

[Elen]

Western Ukraine is more Ukrainian.

If "more Ukrainian" means "more far from Russiaand more close to Poland" then yes.  But actually it's not so

[Elen]

Muscovites tend to have a superiority complex over the rest of Russia and of course Ukraine. This is only natural.

IT's more natural for those who came from "small" towns and from "little nations" to have a inferiority complex Mostly it's they who try to prove "something there" each time in order to show their "value" Just classic situation with  Слон и Моська

[Jazzyclassy]

IT's more natural for those who came from "small" towns and from "little nations" to have a inferiority complex Mostly it's they who try to prove "something there" each time in order to show their "value" Just classic situation with  Слон и Моська

The things that I tried to explain in my bla bla bla post , you did that so much better in your 3 lines:) Da and 3 times DA I agree:)

[Mir]

Elen and JC

I am sure you know that superiority complex is a form of inferiority compelx

[Elen]

I'm sure you do know about complexes more than we    But all after all it's  моськи who are more noisy

[Mir]

Pugs?

I don't understand ???