Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Married => Topic started by: hiii98 on August 17, 2009, 09:45:35 PM
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Your Question
is my russian wife cheating on me?
Lately i've had a odd feeling my russian wife is cheating on me or at least hiding something from me. I dont speak russian and she just left for the weekend to visit her russian guy friends. I found this message on my computer from her to them. Long story short i want to be able to trust her and I hope someone can translate this letter and let me know what she is saying and if i'm overreacting.
19:19:04 bla bla bla
19:19:23 pomnish, ty u menya vsegda vinovat
19:19:55 gde seychas?
19:19:58 doma?
19:20:01 spish?
19:21:13 zasnul vchera v mashine, ne razbudit, ne poproshalis :)
19:21:25 ona shyfruetsya
19:21:26 est
19:21:32 u mneya
19:21:36 menya
19:22:08 pokinula, tebya tankom ne razbudish, zasnul, raskinulsya vo ves rost
19:22:39 pyan'
19:23:27 kakih vpechatleniy?
19:24:23 s toboy razgovarivat - vse ravno, chto golovoy ob stenku bitsya- odin effect
19:24:50 nikogda pryamo ne otvechaesh
19:24:58 vsegda razmyto kak-to
19:25:25 pravilno, von pohodite s oley v klub pofotkaysya
19:25:31 vystav fotki
19:26:12 dazhe esli ona zahochet vernutsya, vse ravno rano ili pozdno tebya opyat brosit
19:26:28 tak chto dumay golovoy
19:27:01 hochetsya verit, chto est chem
19:27:03
19:27:34 o, dim, platye moe ostavila u martynova doma
19:27:49 tolko kupila v Akire vchera :)
19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna :)
19:29:34 chto o
19:30:06 hot tub(e)
19:30:10 umnik, hahah
19:30:42 a tebe lizhby buhat
19:30:48 zavyazyvay
19:32:00 ya v dells hochu, v waterpark
19:33:00 hochu v waterpark
19:33:38 shut up
19:34:18 eto ty mne?
19:34:23 sam biatch
19:35:35 podseli k sebe roommate, devushku kakuyu-nit
19:36:37 von marinka ishet zhilye opyat
19:36:54 marinka zahochet
19:37:17 a pochemu normalnaya ne zahochet? 1 bedroom? ty na divane budesh :)
19:38:00 ya tebe tut miss wisconsin nashla, ona zahochet :)
19:40:22 nu togda ishi sam krasivuy
19:42:05 chto eto znachit? ya tebe nayti dolzhna? chtoby esli chto, ya vinovata ostalas
19:42:17 net, spasibo :)
19:42:28 ty luchshe ishi, a ya otsenivat budu
19:43:17 pochemu?
19:43:38 kstati, fotki ty eshe ne udalil, ya ih mogu videt
19:43:47 tyazhelo, dimochka, da?
19:43:49 =)
19:44:58 :)
19:45:50 "Zabey na chest, dengi vazhnee" - kruto
19:46:04 osobenno fotk
19:46:09 8A
19:46:58 LADNO, POBEZHALA POKURU POKA CUSTOMERS NET
20:38:20 slushayu poshla ty na....
20:38:50 mama pozvonila nervy mne poportila ((
20:41:22 chto ne izmenilos?
20:41:44 ya ne dumayu, chto ona ochen odobryaet moy brak
20:42:57 govorit kultury raznye
20:43:20 koroche, ne ey sudit
20:44:37 ladno, ty budesh v skype pozzhe?
20:45:03 ok, ttyl, u mneya seychas nastroeniya net
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20:46:57 Eto ya, dobav menya. Ira
20:47:43 ne beri durnogo v golovu i tyazhelogo v rot
20:47:54 davay, pozzhe poobshaensya
i should also add that i've tried all the online russian to english translators and they dont work. I assume because the text is written which english characters rather than russian letters.
I'm curious what the summary of the conversation holds not a word by word translation
we've been married for a year now and have a 1 year old son. Lately i just feel like something has changed in her... I really hope i'm wrong and overreacting.
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She just left for the weekend to visit her Russian guy friends....
Sorry but are you sure the child is yours? Did she leave the child with you? There is so much wrong with this.
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yeah i had to stay home with our child all weekend while she spent the night partying with her "guy friends"... till 10am then came home sunday night drunk after being dropped off from chicago to wisconsin by the same men who so kindly (hmm) drove her up here after she missed the last bus back home..
Just my alarms are going off and I dont want to be played for a fool.
I'm not the jealous type anymore, i just have a million opportunites in my own personal life to be with other people but i've been 100% faithful to her (i used to have a bad track record BEFORE i met her, 3 years ago).
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I found this translator that may help. I tried some of the sentences you posted and it translated 90% of it.
Although these online translations can lead to false representations and possible conclusions should not be solely based on these translations but rather get the opinion of a professional.
I say this because the sentences I did translate using the translation I am showing you does not look too good.
Maybe you will understand better.
However they do have the word hot tub in english in this discussion. Unless you just bought one this is concern.
One sentence I translated came out to this
приэзжаыте, the husband will leave soon in уту so I shall be one
This sentence had happy face at the end.
But I still recommend you get professional translation. I do not want you to have wrong impression from false interpretation.
http://translation2.paralink.com/Russian-English-Translation/
To add. One sentence in conversation was translated as this. It was sentence that had 1 bedroom in it.
And why нормалная will not want? 1 бедроом? You on a sofa будеш
Now in this sentence someone mentioned the other being on a sofa. So this looks like it could be a friend.
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Re: Is my Russian wife cheating on me or am I overreacting?
I dont speak russian and she just left for the weekend to visit her russian guy friends.
:D
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I looked over several sentences. As mentioned before not the best translations and I could be wrong but it does seem to me from what I have seen to be friendly conversation. There is talk of another girl etc...
But my guess is not cheating. It seems like friendly tak to me.
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20:46:57 Eto ya, dobav menya. Ira
20:47:43 ne beri durnogo v golovu i tyazhelogo v rot
20:47:54 davay, pozzhe poobshaensya
i should also add that i've tried all the online russian to english translators and they dont work. I assume because the text is written which english characters rather than russian letters.
I'm curious what the summary of the conversation holds not a word by word translation
we've been married for a year now and have a 1 year old son. Lately i just feel like something has changed in her... I really hope i'm wrong and overreacting.
Get a russian keyboard for her, makes it easier for you
a keylogger like this records every activity on your pc http://www.relytec.com/keylogger.htm
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I don't want to be played for a fool.
You are. Whether or not she is bumping loins with others in the process is anyone's guess but given what I have seen it is on the more likely side of possible than the unlikely side. You've got a crap load of issues to sort out and the sooner you face that, sit her down and have a blunt discussion the better.
Leaving you (or her if it was you) at home with a young child whilst spending the weekend partying on and arriving home drunk is not acceptable marital behaviour in my view. We'll hear a million excuses but bad behaviour is bad behaviour and altogether it demonstrates zero respect for the marriage. If it was my Mrs, she'd be on her bike to who the hell cares where with my number 10 boot fair up her arse. BTW, I'd expect her to treat me the same if I pulled a similar stunt.
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yeah i had to stay home with our child all weekend while she spent the night partying with her "guy friends"... till 10am then came home sunday night drunk after being dropped off from chicago to wisconsin by the same men who so kindly (hmm) drove her up here after she missed the last bus back home..
Just my alarms are going off and I dont want to be played for a fool.
I'm not the jealous type anymore, i just have a million opportunites in my own personal life to be with other people but i've been 100% faithful to her (i used to have a bad track record BEFORE i met her, 3 years ago).
A mother abandoning her one year old child to go party with other men? You don't want to be a fool? Too late, you are a fool.
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hopefully a fluent russian speaker can help you here.
it could all be innocent - does she have female russian friends or are these the only russian friends?
have you met these guys? if not why not ask to meet with them if you can find a baby-sitter
also you mention you saw a change in your wife - this could be innocent. for the first 3 years of being married my wife was so westernized that she even started to lose her natural ability to speak russian, she then took a new job involved her language, spent more time with russian friends (she would rarely go out with me prior to this) and enjoys watching any old crappy DVD as long as it's in russian. what i'm trying to say is perhaps she was losing touch with her russian identity & the change you've seen is her trying to re-connect with her identity?
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I would generally agree with IO here regardless if she's cheating or not.
I had my wife to translate this; this conversation at least does not indicate any cheating, just banter between friends. She (your wife) is even suggesting other women for him - one of her women friends of hers is looking for a place to stay and she suggests she can share his apartment. There's a part where she tells him of a conversation with her mother and apparently her mother doesn't fully approve of your marriage because of cultural differences but your wife says it's not her place to make these decisions for her.
Hope this helps a little.
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i meant to ask earlier - how often is she going out late/all weekend?
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19:19:23 You know,you're always give an impression of guilty.
19:19:55 Where are you now?
19:19:58 At home?
19:19:01 He slept yesterday in a car,I could't wake him up,even didn't say goodbye
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19:21:25 she is hiding
:26 there's(there are)
:32 I have
:36 Me
:08 It's difficult to wake you up even with the help of tank;laying on the bed for all the height
:39 drunkard
:27 What are your impressions?
:23 To talk with you is like to listen to the radio-the same effect!
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19:24:50 You never answer bluntly
19:24:58 Always smth incomprehensible
19:25:25 Nice,you can take Olya to the club and make pics with her
19:25:31 Show your pics
19:26:12 Even if she would like to come back to you,anyway,sometimes she will tell you goodbye again.
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it is nearly impossible to comprehend this without seeing which person wrote which line, at least mark them with n1 and n2, everyone who is trying to translate is not doing a good job cuz they are mostly guessing who is talking
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19:19:04 bla bla bla
1)19:19:23 pomnish, ty u menya vsegda vinovat
1)you say you are always guilty
2)19:19:55 gde seychas?
2)Where are you now?
3)19:19:58 doma?
3)At home?
4)19:20:01 spish?
4)Sleeping?
5)19:21:13 zasnul vchera v mashine, ne razbudit, ne poproshalis
5)He just slept yesterday in a car,I couldn't wake him up,even didn't say goodbye
6)19:21:25 ona shyfruetsya
6)she is hiding
7)19:21:26 est
7)there is(there are)
8)19:21:32 u mneya
8)I have
9)19:21:36 menya
9)Me
10)19:22:08 pokinula, tebya tankom ne razbudish, zasnul, raskinulsya vo ves rost
10)It's difficult to wake you up even with the help of tank;laying on the bed for all the height
11)19:22:39 pyan'
11)drunkard
12)19:23:27 kakih vpechatleniy?
12)What impressions?
13)19:24:23 s toboy razgovarivat - vse ravno, chto golovoy ob stenku bitsya- odin effect
13)To talk with you is like to listen to the radio,the same effect
14)19:24:50 nikogda pryamo ne otvechaesh
14)You never answer bluntly
15)19:24:58 vsegda razmyto kak-to
15)always smth incomprehensible
16)19:25:25 pravilno, von pohodite s oley v klub pofotkaysya
16)Nice,you can take Olya to the club and make pics with her
17)19:25:31 vystav fotki
17)Show your pics
18)19:26:12 dazhe esli ona zahochet vernutsya, vse ravno rano ili pozdno tebya opyat brosit
18)Even if she would like to come back to you,anyway sometimes she will tell you goodbye
19)19:26:28 tak chto dumay golovoy
19)So use your head
20)19:27:01 hochetsya verit, chto est chem
20)I'd like to believe that you have your head for thinking
19:27:03
21)19:27:34 o, dim, platye moe ostavila u martynova doma
21)Dima,I left my dress at Martinov's house
22)19:27:49 tolko kupila v Akire vchera
22)I've just bought it at Akira's yesterday
23)19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna
23)You can come to me,my husband going somewhere soon
19:29:34 chto o
19:30:06 hot tub(e)
19:30:10 umnik, hahah
24)19:30:42 a tebe lizhby buhat
24)You always thinking about alcohol
19:30:48 zavyazyvay
19:32:00 ya v dells hochu, v waterpark
25)19:33:00 hochu v waterpark
25)I want in waterpark
19:33:38 shut up
19:34:18 eto ty mne?
26)19:34:23 sam biatch
26)dont call me bitch
27)19:35:35 podseli k sebe roommate, devushku kakuyu-nit
27)Take someone who will live with you in your apartment
28)19:36:37 von marinka ishet zhilye opyat
28)Marina is looking for a flat,you can take her
19:36:54 marinka zahochet
19:37:17 a pochemu normalnaya ne zahochet? 1 bedroom? ty na divane budesh
19:38:00 ya tebe tut miss wisconsin nashla, ona zahochet
19:40:22 nu togda ishi sam krasivuy
29)19:42:05 chto eto znachit? ya tebe nayti dolzhna? chtoby esli chto, ya vinovata ostalas
29)What do ypou mean?I have to find pretty girl for you?No,I don't want to be guilty then!
19:42:17 net, spasibo
19:42:28 ty luchshe ishi, a ya otsenivat budu
19:43:17 pochemu?
19:43:38 kstati, fotki ty eshe ne udalil, ya ih mogu videt
19:43:47 tyazhelo, dimochka, da?
19:43:49 =)
19:44:58
19:45:50 "Zabey na chest, dengi vazhnee" - kruto
19:46:04 osobenno fotk
19:46:09 8A
19:46:58 LADNO, POBEZHALA POKURU POKA CUSTOMERS NET
20:38:20 slushayu poshla ty na....
30)20:38:50 mama pozvonila nervy mne poportila ((
30)my mum called me and changed my mood((
20:41:22 chto ne izmenilos?
31)20:41:44 ya ne dumayu, chto ona ochen odobryaet moy brak
31)I don't think that she is approve on my marriage
32)20:42:57 govorit kultury raznye
32)she says our cultures are different
33)20:43:20 koroche, ne ey sudit
33)anyway she can judge me
34)20:44:37 ladno, ty budesh v skype pozzhe?
34)Will you be in skype later?
35)20:45:03 ok, ttyl, u mneya seychas nastroeniya net
35)No,not now,I am not in a mood
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Get a russian keyboard for her, makes it easier for you
a keylogger like this records every activity on your pc http://www.relytec.com/keylogger.htm
Of course installing such a program is not illegal, just as installing file sharing programs.
How the acquired information is used, may be illegal.
Overhearing a conversation or as in this case stumbling across chat logs is probably not illegal, again though, use of that information, even posting it on this board may in itself be of concern.
As far as whether or not she is cheating, a native RU speaker said the chat was probably just, well, chatting with nothing with enough substance to back a cheating claim.
The best thing that the OP could probably do is maybe talk with his wife about her behavior and his concerns.. raising the issue of this chat would probably be seen quite negatively.. At this point he distrusts her and she trusts him.. If they both can't trust each other there is not much to base a relationship on. A tailspin certainly will ensue.
Collecting such 'evidence' just might also raise the issue of abuse.
I suggest the OP simply forget about the chat and work on his relationship instead.
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19:19:04 bla bla bla
1)19:19:23 pomnish, ty u menya vsegda vinovat
1)you say you are always guilty
Remember, you are always guilty in my eyes
2)19:19:55 gde seychas?
2)Where are you now?
3)19:19:58 doma?
3)At home?
4)19:20:01 spish?
4)Sleeping?
5)19:21:13 zasnul vchera v mashine, ne razbudit, ne poproshalis
5)He just slept yesterday in a car,I couldn't wake him up,even didn't say goodbye
(hard to say if this is a male speaking about himself, or its somebody else talking about some guy)
He/I fell asleep in the car yesterday, impossible to wake him/me up, didnt say good-bye
6)19:21:25 ona shyfruetsya
6)she is hiding (something?)
7)19:21:26 est
7)there is(there are)
8)19:21:32 u mneya
8)I have
9)19:21:36 menya
9)Me
10)19:22:08 pokinula, tebya tankom ne razbudish, zasnul, raskinulsya vo ves rost
10)It's difficult to wake you up even with the help of tank;laying on the bed for all the height
(This sentence does not make any sense)
left (as in she left someone or some place), even a tank wont wake you up, he/you fell asleep, laying in full height
11)19:22:39 pyan'
11)drunkard
12)19:23:27 kakih vpechatleniy?
12)What impressions?
13)19:24:23 s toboy razgovarivat - vse ravno, chto golovoy ob stenku bitsya- odin effect
13)To talk with you is like to listen to the radio,the same effect
Talking to you is like banging your head on the wall, same effect
(its a russian saying, meaning something is completely useless)
14)19:24:50 nikogda pryamo ne otvechaesh
14)You never answer bluntly
You never give a straightforward answer
15)19:24:58 vsegda razmyto kak-to
15)always smth incomprehensible
always something vague
16)19:25:25 pravilno, von pohodite s oley v klub pofotkaysya
16)Nice,you can take Olya to the club and make pics with her
Correct, come with Olya to the club to make pics (of her/him - unclear if this sentence is directed to a guy or a girl)
(Olya is a female name)
17)19:25:31 vystav fotki
17)Show your pics
Post pics
(doesnt say what pics)
18)19:26:12 dazhe esli ona zahochet vernutsya, vse ravno rano ili pozdno tebya opyat brosit
18)Even if she would like to come back to you,anyway sometimes she will tell you goodbye
Even if she will want to come back, sooner or later she will dump you again anyway
19)19:26:28 tak chto dumay golovoy
19)So use your head
20)19:27:01 hochetsya verit, chto est chem
20)I'd like to believe that you have your head for thinking
19:27:03
21)19:27:34 o, dim, platye moe ostavila u martynova doma
21)Dima,I left my dress at Martinov's house
22)19:27:49 tolko kupila v Akire vchera
22)I've just bought it at Akira's yesterday
23)19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna
23)You can come to me,my husband going somewhere soon
Come over, my husband is going to Utah/utu soon, so i will be alone
19:29:34 chto o
what ??
19:30:06 hot tub(e)
??
19:30:10 umnik, hahah
smartass, hahah
24)19:30:42 a tebe lizhby buhat
24)You always thinking about alcohol
You just wanna drink (alcohol)
19:30:48 zavyazyvay
quit it
19:32:00 ya v dells hochu, v waterpark
25)19:33:00 hochu v waterpark
25)I want in waterpark
i wanna go to dells, to waterpark
19:33:38 shut up
19:34:18 eto ty mne?
are you talking to me?
26)19:34:23 sam biatch
26)dont call me bitch
you are a biatch yourself
27)19:35:35 podseli k sebe roommate, devushku kakuyu-nit
27)Take someone who will live with you in your apartment
Get a roommate, some girl
28)19:36:37 von marinka ishet zhilye opyat
28)Marina is looking for a flat,you can take her
Marina is looking for a place to live again
(Marina is a female name)
19:36:54 marinka zahochet
Marina will want
19:37:17 a pochemu normalnaya ne zahochet? 1 bedroom? ty na divane budesh
and why wont a normal girl want? 1 bedroom? you will be on the couch
19:38:00 ya tebe tut miss wisconsin nashla, ona zahochet
I found miss wisconsin for you, she will want
19:40:22 nu togda ishi sam krasivuy
well then look for a beautiful one yourself
29)19:42:05 chto eto znachit? ya tebe nayti dolzhna? chtoby esli chto, ya vinovata ostalas
29)What do ypou mean?I have to find pretty girl for you?No,I don't want to be guilty then!
What does this mean? I have to find one for you? So that if something happens, i will be the one to blame?
19:42:17 net, spasibo
no, thank you
19:42:28 ty luchshe ishi, a ya otsenivat budu
Its better if you look yourself, and i will rate (them)
19:43:17 pochemu?
why?
19:43:38 kstati, fotki ty eshe ne udalil, ya ih mogu videt
By the way you didnt delete the photos, i can still see them
19:43:47 tyazhelo, dimochka, da?
its tough, Dima, isnt it?
19:43:49 =)
19:44:58
19:45:50 "Zabey na chest, dengi vazhnee" - kruto
"Forget honor, money is more important" - thats cool
(quoting something most likely with sarcasm)
19:46:04 osobenno fotk
especially the phot(o/os)
19:46:09 8A
19:46:58 LADNO, POBEZHALA POKURU POKA CUSTOMERS NET
Ok, im gonna go have a smoke, while there is no customers
20:38:20 slushayu poshla ty na....
listen, go to hell
(addressed to a girl)
30)20:38:50 mama pozvonila nervy mne poportila ((
30)my mum called me and changed my mood((
my mom called, made me upset
20:41:22 chto ne izmenilos?
what, (it?) hasnt changed?
31)20:41:44 ya ne dumayu, chto ona ochen odobryaet moy brak
31)I don't think that she is approve on my marriage
i dont think she approves of my marriage
32)20:42:57 govorit kultury raznye
32)she says our cultures are different
(she) says the cultures are different
33)20:43:20 koroche, ne ey sudit
33)anyway she can judge me
she cant judge me
34)20:44:37 ladno, ty budesh v skype pozzhe?
34)Will you be in skype later?
35)20:45:03 ok, ttyl, u mneya seychas nastroeniya net
35)No,not now,I am not in a mood
talk to you later, im not in the mood right now
Oh my, Yulianna, no offense but this was not a very good translation, perhaps you should learn english a little more before you offer your translations, because in some places your translation was absolutely wrong
i put my translation in red. The whole conversation looks like the poster ripped out some phrases here and there because there is a lot of random unrelated to each other phrases next to each other
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Your Question
is my russian wife cheating on me?
Welcome to RWD Hiii98.
I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.
What is your age? Hers?
Where and how did you meet her (here in the GoodOl' USA or in the FSU?/internet?)
What kind of education/job did she have, when you met her?
GOB
FWIW....If you really don't have any deep seeded "trust" or "jealousy" issues and you think she is cheating on you because of a "sudden" change in her behavior towards you and your marriage.......then you are probably correct.
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I don't think she is cheating.
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I don't think she is cheating.
i dont think so either, i think they go out to get drunk, hence the you fell asleep talk
i also have an idea, this conversation is probably all her, and the guy was answering with voice on skype, until the end where he told her to go to hell because she hung up to talk to her mother, thats why the sentences dont make any sense or order
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Same opinion here. But she is definitely not happy and this is more than time to invite her for a supper at one good place (neutral ... don't talk at home) and to ask her why she is acting like that (coming back drunk late..). You will decide what you will do after but you definitely need to talk together first.
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I don't think she is cheating.
i dont think so either,....
Just curious ladies, please "quantify" your interpretation of the word "cheating"?
The "Bill Clinton" explanation? :evil:........or......"Physical contact" of any kind? :rolleyes2:
GOB
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I am sure we are talking of being physically unfaithful
I don't think she is.
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Oh my, Yulianna, no offense but this was not a very good translation, perhaps you should learn english a little more before you offer your translations, because in some places your translation was absolutely wrong
i put my translation in red. The whole conversation looks like the poster ripped out some phrases here and there because there is a lot of random unrelated to each other phrases next to each other
Aloe, my wife agrees. Seems like Yulianna extrapolated far too much and added much more meaning than she should have done.
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Hi, where do you live in Wisconsin? I have a condo in the 3rd ward of Milwaukee and work sometimes in Chicago area. I maybe able to help you.
Also, I do think you should install a key logger on computer. In this case I think Muddy is right. Not normal for a woman (RW or AW) to hangout with men when she has a 1 year old child. I also think it is strange she takes the bus in America - did you not buy her a car and take the time to teach her to drive?
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I also don't believe that she is cheating YET. If she continues spending her weekends getting drunk and partying with men, she will cheat on you eventually. Mix enough alcohol and people together long enough and sex will happen :evil:
How well did you know your wife before getting married? Clearly, you either married a party girl or a very young woman who did not get it out of her system before getting married.
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kievstar , help with what?
Guys, we don't know the situation in this family- probably these "parties" are the only way for the woman to get away from home. I said- probably.
A question- do you think that checking her instant message history or installing the key logger are the absolutely necessary actions?
Come on!
There is nothing in this conversation that says about cheating. This woman is young, bored at home and needs friends.
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Guys, we don't know the situation in this family- probably these "parties" are the only way for the woman to get away from home. I said- probably.
If her husband lets her go party with a group of men at night, methinks she is not chained away in a basement :rolleyes2: There are always other ways of getting away from home.
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If her husband lets her go party with a group of men at night, methinks she is not chained away in a basement :rolleyes2: There are always other ways of getting away from home.
Ok, if her husband lets her go party then he is ok with it.
As for the "other ways"- we do not know.
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a screaming, pooping, demanding attention 24/7 little bundle of joy will drive anyone out the house :P
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Ok, of her husband lets her go party then he is ok with it.
As for the "other ways"- we do not know.
Again, goes back to Occam's Razor. If a woman goes out partying with a group of men and getting drunk, it is invariably because she likes going out with a group of men and going drunk.
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Again, goes back to Occam's Razor. If a woman goes out partying with a group of men and getting drunk, it is invariably because she likes going out with a group of men and going drunk.
thats not true, many people, especially young, do lots of stupid stuff, not necesserily because they like it, but for many other reasons.
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a screaming, pooping, demanding attention 24/7 little bundle of joy will drive anyone out the house :P
Let's see, there are cafes, movie theaters, restaurants, museums, art galleries, and those wonderful people called babysitters that will look after babies so husband and wife can have a nice quiet date.... Again, for most women, there are many options for having a break that do not involve getting drunk and going nightclubbing with men who are not your husbands :rolleyes2:
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thats not true, many people, especially young, do lots of stupid stuff, not necesserily because they like it, but for many other reasons.
Well, IMHO, young stupid people should not be having babies :rolleyes2: Again, it is one of the reasons why I ask how well the OP knew the woman before he married her.
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Let's see, there are cafes, movie theaters, restaurants, museums, art galleries, and those wonderful people called babysitters that will look after babies so husband and wife can have a nice quiet date.... Again, for most women, there are many options for having a break that do not involve getting drunk and going nightclubbing with men who are not your husbands :rolleyes2:
all that stuff you mention is not that tempting if you have to take the bus that runs 2 times a day out of some god forsaken village :P
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all that stuff you mention is not that tempting if you have to take the bus that runs 2 times a day out of some god forsaken village :P
Again, there are always many excuses to justify bad behavior :evil:
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Well, IMHO, young stupid people should not be having babies :rolleyes2: Again, it is one of the reasons why I ask how well the OP knew the woman before he married her.
many people should not have babies, but that doesnt stop them :P like in that movie.. the stupid guy living in a trailer goes around impregnating anything that gives, and the couples with education and jobs take birth control and wait with a baby until this and then until that and may end up not having any at all or just one, while the trailer guy has 10 babies by then :P
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a screaming, pooping, demanding attention 24/7 little bundle of joy will drive anyone out the house :P
Exactly!
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Again, there are always many excuses to justify bad behavior :evil:
that is not an excuse to justify her behavior. I live in a village with very bad bus connection, do you think im super excited to go see the opera or museum in brussels 1 hour away? Sure it would be nice, but the amount of public transportation i have to use to get there just kills any desire to go. I do wanna go but by car. And it seems like her friends have a car, but what they do is get drunk, not go to a museum :P
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many people should not have babies, but that doesnt stop them :P
That is why, unfortunately, many children are taken away from their parents by the authorities. Reminds me of the gossip I hear from my wife's extended family in Germany. Her father's stepson married a party girl from Russia and went to live in Germany. She is from my wife's city, and my wife already knew of her reputation. Once in Germany, she had 3 children and continued to party. One night while she was drunk, one of her daughter's was "allegedly" playing with her lighter and set herself on fire. She certainly deserves to lose her children IMHO. Not all Russian women are saints.
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And it seems like her friends have a car, but what they do is get drunk, not go to a museum :P
Excuses, excuses. How does that saying go: "tell me who your friends are, and I will tell you who you are." Invariably, people find friends who are like them. Birds of a feather flock together :evil: In this case, if the friends she finds are men that she wants to go party with, those are the kind of friends she wants.
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Excuses, excuses. How does that saying go: "tell me who your friends are, and I will tell you who you are." Invariably, people find friends who are like them. Birds of a feather flock together :evil: In this case, if the friends she finds are men that she wants to go party with, those are the kind of friends she wants.
maybe its the only people she knows and she misses talking in russian, so she hangs around them until she finds real friends? If some people are deprived of their native language long enough, they will stick to anything that speaks it, no matter the quality (except extreme cases of course)
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maybe its the only people she knows and she misses talking in russian, so she hangs around them until she finds real friends? If some people are deprived of their native language long enough, they will stick to anything that speaks it, no matter the quality (except extreme cases of course)
Did not you hear what Misha said? We need to go to o-p-e-r-a! That's it! :D
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Did not you hear what Misha said? We need to go to o-p-e-r-a! That's it! :D
Well, some women need more than the opera, and there are some nice Russian words that will describe those women as well :evil:
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all that stuff you mention is not that tempting if you have to take the bus that runs 2 times a day out of some god forsaken village :P
How far is your "god forsaken village" from the city?
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maybe its the only people she knows and she misses talking in russian, so she hangs around them until she finds real friends? If some people are deprived of their native language long enough, they will stick to anything that speaks it, no matter the quality (except extreme cases of course)
More excuses. If she could find men to go party with, it means there are enough Russians in her community to find women to spend time with in social settings than a nightclub getting drunk. Again, you find what you seek.
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Since we know nothing about the nature of their relationship there could be a multitude of reasons why she likes to get away for a bit and go partying.
Sometimes breaks are needed.. sorta lets the partners re-orient themselves a bit and let loose pent up energies. Life 24/7 with kids can get quite restrictive as to external activities.
Did make the OP think a little bit.. - maybe that even is the desired effect.
I wonder if the OP has close relatives that could look after the child and give them a weekend off together.
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Since we know nothing about the nature of their relationship there could be a multitude of reasons why she likes to get away for a bit and go partying.
Let's see, in the three years that we have been together, my wife has never had the need to go partying with a group of men. Either I know how to pick a wife or my wife knows how to pick a husband :evil:
Sometimes breaks are needed.. sorta lets the partners re-orient themselves a bit and let loose pent up energies. Life 24/7 with kids can get quite restrictive as to external activities.
Let's see, when my wife and I want to expend some excess energy we go out for a bike ride, a walk, snowshoeing or a host of other activities.
Sorry, but you will never convince me that a married woman with a young child going out to get drunk with a group of men is normal behavior, no matter how good the excuses. So, at this stage, I will simply agree to disagree.
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I must be pretty whacked reading some of the posts in here.
My wife have a few female friends, two of which recently had kids. We all get together once in a while for dinner, outings, skiing, and such. One of my subcontractor had a nice condo in Palm Springs and offerred it for me and my wife to use for the weekend. I had taken my wife to the desert with another couple one time before and as much as she hated the heat, she enjoyed the amenities.
I told my wife to ask her friends and see if they would like an all women weekend outing by themselves, husbands' willing...Lay out, shop, sip margaritas, go dancing, etc...whatever. I never thought to be concerned of the possibility of her cheating, or meeting someone. That possibility is always there whether she's in PS or walking down our street.
Silly me. I was more concerned of their safety driving to and from Palm Springs than I was of my trust being challenged.
The OP's concern is warranted if his wife never took the time to introduce her friend/s to him. It doesn't automatically mean she's cheating if she hasn't, but it sure would make things a little more transparent.
Lastly, being a young mother, IMHO as long as this isn't a regular behavior on her part, I don't see anything wrong with going out with friends now and then. It's a good break. Besides, I get to bond with my kid.
Who knows, maybe someday I get a opportunity to go on a golf weekend at Mesquite with my friends and have to ask my wife if I can go. I'd like to think she trust me enough not to think it'll be more than slapping my balls around in search of a few holes.
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Sorry, but you will never convince me that a married woman with a young child going out to get drunk with a group of men is normal behavior, no matter how good the excuses. So, at this stage, I will simply agree to disagree.
Misha,
I personally don't disagree with you.. but I do know there are a lot of strange relationships out there. May not be 'normalna' for you or me but for others who knows.. There are probably some swinger, some doper, maybe threesome or moresome, dependent, dominant, co-dependent AM/RW couples out there so I kinda refrain from hammering the gavel too hard.
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I told my wife to ask her friends and see if they would like an all women weekend outing by themselves, husbands' willing...Lay out, shop, sip margaritas, go dancing, etc...
Again, a group of women having a night out together is quite different IMHO than a woman going to get drunk with a group of single men. Then again, perhaps my standards of behavior are different :rolleyes2: In the meantime, feel free to ask your wife if she would mind you going out to get drunk with with a group of single women over the weekend while she stays home with the kids :evil:
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I personally don't disagree with you.. but I do know there are a lot of strange relationships out there.
Yes, but for "strange" relationships to work, they must be consensual. If the OP is here asking questions, clearly he is not okay with it.
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Me thinks there are some very niave men in the world.
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Since we know nothing about the nature of their relationship there could be a multitude of reasons why she likes to get away for a bit and go partying.
Sometimes breaks are needed.. sorta lets the partners re-orient themselves a bit and let loose pent up energies. Life 24/7 with kids can get quite restrictive as to external activities.
Did make the OP think a little bit.. - maybe that even is the desired effect.
I wonder if the OP has close relatives that could look after the child and give them a weekend off together.
No matter how much Doll and Aloe try to sanitize this behavior, there is no excuse for a married mother of a one year old to be absent from hubby or baby for drunken weekends with friends. Seems to me that they are male friends only, compounds the problem. That is abandonment and neglect. Like I/O, it would last but one weekend at my house. FWIW
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This sure got out of hand.
First advice I will give. If you need to put a spy program into your computer to check on spouse then you might as well go to a divorce lawyer. It is already over.
Marriage is based on trust. If you do not trust you have no marriage. Spying only contributes to paranoia.
The conversation showed she is not cheating. In fact the comment she was upset with mother not being happy about marriage shows she does not want it to end. Why would she be upset if she was not happy in relationship?
At this point your actions will ruin the marriage.
I see nothing wrong with her going out. She is a human being and deserves to have her own time.
Did it not occur to anyone here that maybe she needs the company of other Russian People?
She moved to another country. Away from her own family. Away from her own culture and everything she knows to be with this man. Do you not think maybe it feels good for her and gives her some comfort to at least have a moment of her old normal life?
This is a serious case of overreacting and the only this that is going to push her away at this point is overreacting and spying on her.
At this point understanding her and allowing her to have her time which it seems she needs to still adjust will save this marriage.
Spying on her or telling her no more will defiently end it.
She is human and deserves her own time as well. This time helps her to stay grounded. You take that away and she will be a ticking time bomb.
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In fact the comment she was upset with mother not being happy about marriage shows she does not want it to end.
IMHO, it will simply be a convenient excuse once the marriage ends. She will be able to say that the marriage ended, as her mother predicted, because of cultural differences, and not because she was going out with groups of guys getting drunk and leaving her baby at home :evil:
Did it not occur to anyone here that maybe she needs the company of other Russian People?
Let's see, when my wife wants the company of other Russian people she invites a friend over for tea or they go shopping together :rolleyes2:
Away from her own family. Away from her own culture and everything she knows to be with this man.
And the excuses keep getting piled higher and higher.... Do you really think she would be different if she were back home? Odds are pretty good she would be the kind of woman dumping her baby at her mother's while she would go out and party with friends :rolleyes2: The only question would be how her Russian husband would react :evil:
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IMHO, it will simply be a convenient excuse once the marriage ends. She will be able to say that the marriage ended, as her mother predicted, because of cultural differences, and not because she was going out with groups of guys getting drunk and leaving her baby at home :evil:
Let's see, when my wife wants the company of other Russian people she invites a friend over for tea or they go shopping together :rolleyes2:
And the excuses keep getting piled higher and higher.... Do you really think she would be different if she were back home? Odds are pretty good she would be the kind of woman dumping her baby at her mother's while she would go out and party with friends :rolleyes2: The only question would be how her Russian husband would react :evil:
Misha no offense but with your attittude towards marriage yours is doomed to fail.
Do you already have your wife in chains?
Wives are not pieaces or property. They are human beings and deserve to have their own lives as well. As long as she is not being unfaithful she deserves to have her own time and her own friends and she does not have to give reasons for it.
Absolutely rediculous attitude.
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This relationship is over. How much longer it lasts depends on how much more emotional stress the man can take.
excuse,justify,excuse,justify,excuse,justify,excuse,justify.
Keep saying it and you will eventually convince yourself its all good untill the next night she goes out with her party friends then you have to start over and convince yourself again.
Man start planning your exit. You have the advantage with the suprize effect.
Reminds me of the prostitution thread.
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Again, a group of women having a night out together is quite different IMHO than a woman going to get drunk with a group of single men. Then again, perhaps my standards of behavior are different :rolleyes2: In the meantime, feel free to ask your wife if she would mind you going out to get drunk with with a group of single women over the weekend while she stays home with the kids :evil:
LOL, Holy Molly. Well since you're making all the assumptions why not complete the picture and specifically say the men being John Bang, Dick Long, and Baht Fach.
Is OP's wife going out and getting drunk with her friends, male friends, that you find unacceptable ~ or that nagging suspicion she already did Dima, Pasha & the Uzbek crowd.?
Methinks if your wife ever went out, even with female friends, you'd have a problem with that. :P After all, how will YOU ever know it's out with the girls...
Do you boys get all tied up in knots when your wives go back to Russia by herself for weeks on in?
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Misha no offense but with your attittude towards marriage yours is doomed to fail.
Do you already have your wife in chains?
Sorry, but that is uncalled for. My wife and I are happily married and will be celebrating our 3rd anniversary in a few months. If you get that far with your wife, we'll talk.
Wives are not pieaces or property. They are human beings and deserve to have their own lives as well. As long as she is not being unfaithful she deserves to have her own time and her own friends and she does not have to give reasons for it.
I agree that wives are not property, but I also believe in decency and acceptable behavior. My wife would not find it acceptable that I go out with a group of single women and come back drunk in the middle of the night, and I expect the same of her. Likewise, she would not accept me leaving her alone over a weekend with a young child, while I have a wild night out on the town, and I would expect the same of her.
But, you seem to have taken this personally. Perhaps, I am not the one who should be worried about his marriage :evil:
Absolutely rediculous attitude.
Sure, expecting a wife and mother to behave appropriately. How barbaric, how feudal....
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Is OP's wife going out and getting drunk with her friends, male friends, that you find unacceptable ~ or that nagging suspicion she already did Dima, Pasha & the Uzbek crowd.?
If she were simply going out and getting drunk over the weekend and leaving her husband and baby at home, I would find that unacceptable behavior. Then again, I am married to a woman who will complain of a hang over if she has a second glass of wine over supper and then exclaim how she does not understand why some people find joy in alcohol ;)
Methinks if your wife ever went out, even with female friends, you'd have a problem with that. :P After all, how will YOU ever know it's out with the girls...
To be honest, my wife has never gone out partying to all hours of the night with friends male or female. This is not because I forbid it, but simply because she is not into that kind of behavior. Unlike some, I took the time to get to know my wife and know what kind of woman she is. I simply avoided party girls when dating.
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Sorry, but that is uncalled for. My wife and I are happily married and will be celebrating our 3rd anniversary in a few months. If you get that far with your wife, we'll talk.
I agree that wives are not property, but I also believe in decency and acceptable behavior. My wife would not find it acceptable that I go out with a group of single women and come back drunk in the middle of the night, and I expect the same of her. Likewise, she would not accept me leaving her alone over a weekend with a young child, while I have a wild night out on the town, and I would expect the same of her.
But, you seem to have taken this personally. Perhaps, I am not the one who should be worried about his marriage :evil:
Sure, expecting a wife and mother to behave appropriately. How barbaric, how feudal....
OK you are almost married three years. And I should talk to you when mine lasts that long?
Shall I throw you a parade or something? I mean what :cluebat:
Come on now Misha. get real.
You obviously have a different opinion as to what a successful marirage is.
To me personally a successful marriage is one that ends in death due us part.
Not in time or years.
However I have been with my wife for 4 years. Married for a year and a half. So what is your point for 3 years?
Come talk to me when you have grandchildren and everything else before you start bragging.
I also do not see anywhere in the least where I took it personally.
This discussion has nothing to do with me period. Nowhere was I even mentioned. And how on earth should I be worried about my marriage?
My wife and I do not keep each other in chains. We love and respect each other and support each others decisions. In simple terms we treat each other with respect and as human beings.
We also do not spy on each other or put programs into the computer to check on one another.
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No matter how much Doll and Aloe try to sanitize this behavior, there is no excuse for a married mother of a one year old to be absent from hubby or baby for drunken weekends with friends.
Sir, OP asked us if there was something about cheating in the dialogue he stole- there IS nothing. As for their relationships- he is responsible himself.
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Going out drinking with other men!!! :o........the next step is actually cheating....
There is no justification for any of this. Misha is right! What 'freedom' are you talking about?
There is only freedom with your partner within you marriage. That's it. Going out together with your husband and spending time with other couples is fine. Going out alone and drinking with other men - is not. There is no even gray area about it. It's like black and white.
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First advice I will give. If you need to put a spy program into your computer to check on spouse then you might as well go to a divorce lawyer. It is already over.
Marriage is based on trust.
:ROFL:
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OK you are almost married three years. And I should talk to you when mine lasts that long?
Shall I throw you a parade or something? I mean what :cluebat:
Again, questioning my marriage because I disagree with you is low. If you can't understand that, then it would be best that we stop this conversation :cluebat:
This discussion has nothing to do with me period.
Sorry, but you were the one insinuating that I am somehow a controlling oaf who is headed towards divorce....
In simple terms we treat each other with respect and as human beings.
I do the same. I, however, would consider it disrespectful going out and getting drunk, leaving my wife at home with the kids and I would also consider it disrespectful if she did the same. Fortunately, I found a woman who shares my views.
We also do not spy on each other or put programs into the computer to check on one another.
Get off the high horse, please. I don't check on my wife either :rolleyes2:
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The discussion about what's acceptable behavior when one's wife goes out (or vice versa) should be broken off to another thread, as not only does it not help the OP but it's absolutely a valuable topic and merits its own independent discussion.
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hiii98 needs a keylogger mountain guerilla
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I agree that there is nothing criminal in the dialogue (monologue??) except the utter silliness of its participant(s). But if the OP is okay with that, nothing criminal at all.
This thread also offers a great example how a bad translation can potentially ruin a marriage. ;D
23)19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna
Yulianna's translation:
23)You can come to me,my husband going somewhere soon
Correct translation:
You both (sic! -plural) come visit, my husband will go to Utah soon, I'll be alone.
As for spending a night out with male friends, I can certainly see myself in such a situation, especially if they are my college buddies whom I haven't seen for ages briefly visiting and we want to catch up without having to translate everything for my husband. But I certainly cannot see myself coming back drunk in the morning; or leaving a small child for the weekend. But again, if the OP is okay with that, who are we to judge.
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As for spending a night out with male friends, I can certainly see myself in such a situation, especially if they are my college buddies whom I haven't seen for ages briefly visiting and we want to catch up without having to translate everything for my husband. But I certainly cannot see myself coming back drunk in the morning; or leaving a small child for the weekend. But again, if the OP is okay with that, who are we to judge.
You dont think meeting at noon or late afternoon would be better? so your husband does not worry about you and where you are at mid night!
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You dont think meeting at noon or late afternoon would be better? so your husband does not worry about you and where you are at mid night!
Apparently OP was OK with it. Then- if it is a party it usually starts in the evening.
The girl needs the car and the cell phone.
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As for spending a night out with male friends, I can certainly see myself in such a situation, especially if they are my college buddies whom I haven't seen for ages briefly visiting and we want to catch up without having to translate everything for my husband. But I certainly cannot see myself coming back drunk in the morning; or leaving a small child for the weekend.
:applaud: This is the type of behavior I would expect from and see as perfectly acceptable.
But again, if the OP is okay with that, who are we to judge.
Methinks, the OP is not okay with it anymore if he is starting to ask questions.
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(i used to have a bad track record BEFORE i met her, 3 years ago).
Your bad track record may have hurt your chances on finding a woman with a good track record. Maybe you had a lack of knowlege on the difference between a good girl and a good time girl is or maybe you were always attracted to the good time girl. There's a lot of truth to the saying "You reap what you sow? You plant a bad seed in life, you get bad results. I'm glad that you admited that was the past. Now the same type of guys that you were are working on your wife.
приэзжаыте, the husband will leave soon in уту so I shall be one
This sentence had happy face at the end.
Your wife knows her behavior isn't appropriote in a marriage for her to say that. She is flirting and willing to get drunk. Her guy friends aren't telling her to go home to her husband and baby. Her guy friends know when women are drunk, they let down their guard. Yeah, they'd F her the moment she lets down her guard. Who doesn't believe that??? Even if she doesn't intend to let her guard down, she shouldn't put her self in the situation of being with drunk with men who flirt with married women. It'll always be on your mind if her next child is yours. Maybe it's on your mind about your current child?
Your wife is not focused on your marriage. Show her what you found and stop it or stop the marriage before you get in to deep. If she doesn't want a husband, she shouldn't get married. This isn't about controlling her and preventing her from having friends. It's about building a solid marriage. If she doesn't want to help build it with you, then you need to find someone else who will. She knows her behavior is destructive to your marriage. Does she care? I think not but she hangs on to you because you're reliable and steady financial support. The good time boys aren't. It's time to see how big a balls you got and how much of a man you are.
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You dont think meeting at noon or late afternoon would be better? so your husband does not worry about you and where you are at mid night!
As long as I call and let him know I'm safe - no.
Noons and late afternoons are okay with me but my friends who visit may have different schedules.
Anyway, me is me and the OP's wife is a different story; based on the quoted chat I do not think she's cheating but I seriously doubt she's in the habit of keeping her husband informed about her friends or meetings. Serious trust issues on both sides. Not a good sign.
Muddy; I think your message about keyloggers has been delivered enough times; no need to repeat it like a parrot in every post of yours.
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First advice I will give. If you need to put a spy program into your computer to check on spouse then you might as well go to a divorce lawyer. It is already over.
Marriage is based on trust.
:ROFL:
:ROFL:
Some people are so SIMPLE!
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Quote from: BC on Today at 18:10:32
I personally don't disagree with you.. but I do know there are a lot of strange relationships out there.
Yes, but for "strange" relationships to work, they must be consensual. If the OP is here asking questions, clearly he is not okay with it.
The OP did not mention anything at all about consent.. only what he 'found' on her computer that raised his doubts.
He may well have said 'Yeah, go ahead and have fun..'
The original post:
Your Question
is my russian wife cheating on me?
Lately i've had a odd feeling my russian wife is cheating on me or at least hiding something from me. I dont speak russian and she just left for the weekend to visit her russian guy friends. I found this message on my computer from her to them. Long story short i want to be able to trust her and I hope someone can translate this letter and let me know what she is saying and if i'm overreacting.
I don't see anything at all here indicating he did not consent..
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I don't see anything at all here indicating he did not consent..
Again, he is starting to have doubts. It will be interesting to hear more from him. I am sure that he is trying to convince himself that it is acceptable behavior, he is doing his best to trust her (and turn a blind eye to all that she is doing), but the fact that he is starting to ask questions and starting to look at evidence of potential wrongdoing, suggests to me that he may be starting to reconsider the appropriateness of her behavior. He can correct me if I am wrong.
This brings to mind Shakespeare:
O, beware, my lord, of jealousy;
It is the green-ey'd monster, which doth mock
The meat it feeds on. That cuckold lives in bliss,
Who, certain of his fate, loves not his wronger:
But O, what damned minutes tells he o'er
Who dotes, yet doubts, suspects, yet strongly loves!
Yes, it is easier if the cuckold either remains in complete ignorance or simply accept his wife's behavior. The one who suffers is the one who doubts, who suspects, yet loves. Our OP may fall in this latter category.
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Even if she doesn't intend to let her guard down, she shouldn't put her self in the situation of being with drunk with men who flirt with married women.
I agree with you Billy. How does that line in the Lord's Prayer go? "And lead us not into temptation"? To have a strong marriage, both must work towards avoiding temptations that could lead to actions that will lead to the downfall of the marriage. Yes, not every woman who goes out getting drunk with guys will cheat on her husband, but she is certainly increasing the odds that it will happen. The same would be true of a man.
It's about building a solid marriage.
And a strong family as well.
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:ROFL:
:ROFL:
Some people are so SIMPLE!
Muddy,
"Trust but verify" simply does not work in relationships. The poster you are chuckling at is quite correct IMHO. The very nature of a marital bond is built on trust, it's the foundation. Past and even current events in my life have substantiated this time and time again.
Misha,
Thanks for the Shakespeare quote, indeed interesting.
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If she were simply going out and getting drunk over the weekend and leaving her husband and baby at home, I would find that unacceptable behavior.
Misha-
I don't need to quote the OP's posts again. His chief concern was to get verification on the script his wife exchanged with a friend to see if his fears are warranted. The RWs who did the translation seem to imply it's fairly benign.
The issue with the drinking incident doesn't clearly tell me a) this is habitual, and b) it was planned. She took the bus from Wis. to Chicago to see her friends. She apparently got drunk and had to be driven back the next day because of it. All weekend to me implies Saturday and Sunday. That's all WE know, unless there was a post I missed.
The OP didn't say that her meeting her friends was something he doesn't agree with. On the contrary, the absence of him saying so implies to me he didn't see anything wrong with it and giving her a break was mutually agreed upon.
Based on this premise ~ how are you folks became so convinced there's a high probability that the true father of the child was Chicago Dima? Enlighten me.
Is it right to go partying with male friends all the time when a woman is already married? No, but we don't have that in this story.
Is it right for a mother to leave her child for the weekend to meet with friends? Habitually, IMO no. If this was a lone instance and was pre-discussed and mutually agreed upon, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Does it make a whole lot of sense for any man to come to the internet and solicit people's opinion (who are fed with limited information at best ) he doesn't know to help determine his marital situation? IMHO, for me 'hell no'. Had we collectively said get a divorce lawyer and get it over quickly, do you think he should? Would you have?
What ever happened to all those altrusitic qualities men on boards like this squack about women from FSU ad nauseum?
Why marry a woman out of culture, out of country, at times out of language if men are prone to jump the gun and living their life on the edge and easily out of trust?
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Muddy,
The very nature of a marital bond is built on trust, it's the foundation. Past and even current events in my life have substantiated this time and time again.
ok
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he is starting to have doubts.
He's got serious doubts about his marriage to post what he did on the internet. Even if he consented to letting her go out with male friends, he did not expect the results of what happened. Any man who starts to suspect their wife is unfaithful will lose trust in her and question if his children is his. To sweep this under the rug and forget about it is not mentally healthy for the OP. He needs to bring up what he found and end her bad behavior now for the sake of his sanity and their marriage before it derails to the point it'll never get back on track.
I'm curious who bought the drinks? If the male friends bought the drinks and loaded her up with alcohol, they most likely were hoping for something in return. Party men who want the married women they're partying with to get drunk aren't doing it for free. They could at least invite the husbands. Certainly they did not care about her safety going home drunk. Did they let her drive home drunk or did they care enough as true friends would and drive her home themselves?
If I had a daughter who brought a boy home to meet me for a first date, I would lay down the law/rules. Certainly getting her drunk will be against the rules and there will be consequences if the rules are broke. After I lay down the law, I would probably talk about my gun collection.
Here we are not talking about a daughter but a wife and the rules for both husband and wife should have been established before getting married and if broken, there will be consequences such as the end of the marriage. Now the OP has to lay down the law that he's comfortable with and if she doesn't respect his rules or at a minimum, his feelings and grant him peace of mind, then it's time to move on. Getting married isn't about getting a ticket to one's selfish desires, it's about making some sacrifices. The OP use to be a bad boy but he says he is 100% faithful to his wife. I believe him and he made a sacrifice to give up a lifestyle that he enjoys for one woman.
Regardless if her conversation was innocent with her male friend, it was immature. Immature people should not get married or have babies.
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Is it right to go partying with male friends all the time when a woman is already married? No, but we don't have that in this story.
It is in the transcript of messages that the OP provided.
What ever happened to all those altrusitic qualities men on boards like this squack about women from FSU ad nauseum?
What altruistic qualities are you referring to?
Why marry a woman out of culture, out of country, at times out of language if men are prone to jump the gun and living their life on the edge and easily out of trust?
You see, I did not just marry a woman, I did not even just marry a RW, I married a woman that I knew and only after I was certain as to her values and her character. My wife is a good woman who happens to be from Russia. We value each other, respect each other, and have certain expectations as to how we will behave.
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It is in the transcript of messages that the OP provided.
No it didn't. The guy (may drink) drinks a lot but it doesn't mean she does. Most Russian men drink a lot, but it doesn't stop WMs from getting their wives from Russia ~ including you.
What altruistic qualities are you referring to?
OY, family-oriented certainly comes to mind.
You see, I did not just marry a woman, I did not even just marry a RW, I married a woman that I knew and only after I was certain as to her values and her character. My wife is a good woman who happens to be from Russia. We value each other, respect each other, and have certain expectations as to how we will behave.
That's really getting old Misha. I doubt anyone's wife came out of a box with a 20% discount.
You say this but then jump to some wild unsubstantiated conclusions on these types of issues. If you are so confident of your conviction and disposition, your reactionary tendencies show the contrary. These are reactions of people unsure of themselves and what they do.
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No it didn't. The guy may drinks a lot but it doesn't mean she does. Most Russian men drink a lot, but it doesn't stop WMs from getting their wives from Russia. Including you.
Again, I got to know my wife. When we were dating and once we were in a committed relationship, she did not go out with men who were drinking to all hours of the night. Likewise, I did not go out cruising the town once I was engaged. This behavior continues after our marriage. To repeat for the umpteenth time, I carefully looked for a woman with compatible values, and I found such a woman. I will never, in no way, apologize for that.
That's really getting old Misha. I doubt anyone's wife came out of a box with a 20% discount.
Getting personal are we. Again, some men take the time to get to know their wives and know what they are getting into, others seem to simply marry the first woman than crosses their path and will then generalize her behavior to all Russian women :rolleyes2:
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Again, I got to know my wife. When we were dating and once we were in a committed relationship, she did not go out with men who were drinking to all hours of the night. Likewise, I did not go out cruising the town once I was engaged. This behavior continues after our marriage. To repeat for the umpteenth time, I carefully looked for a woman with compatible values, and I found such a woman. I will never, in no way, apologize for that.
Then if you're absent in understanding you're likely preaching to the choir, what exactly are you impying? 10 of them didn't? Maybe 2, a hundred? Maybe you believe I didn't because we differ on this opinion? Are you implying the OP didn't take his time? How do you know that?
Getting personal are we. Again, some men take the time to get to know their wives and know what they are getting into, others seem to simply marry the first woman than crosses their path and will then generalize her behavior to all Russian women :rolleyes2:
Lather, rinse, repeat. See above.
You conveniently skipped my queries above. Why?
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You say this but then jump to some wild unsubstantiated conclusions on these types of issues. If you are so confident of your conviction and disposition, your reactionary tendencies show the contrary. These are reactions of people unsure of themselves and what they do.
Reactionary tendencies? I will not apologize either for believing that certain morals should be upheld. I will not apologize for my belief that married men should not be out to the wee hours of the night with other women, and that women should not be out partying with men (regardless of whether they drink or not) leaving their baby and husband at home. Call it reactionary if you will, but I believe that certain things are moral (ethical if you prefer). Sure, most people fail to uphold these values some of the time, myself included, but that does not mean that we should simply reject them out of hand.
Do I trust my wife? Yes, absolutely. I also value my wife for her behavior and her values.
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Many here are completely missing the point of what the OP wrote.
HE only wrote of ONE occasion of her going away with guy friends and getting drunk. No where did he say she does this night after night or weekend after weekend. Only ONE situation this occured and so many are making her out to be a bad person without knowing the story or who the Men were to her.
As BluesFairy said. She would have done the same with college buddies etc... Maybe not get drunk but she would have met them.
I would have no problems with my wife doing the same. Does she not have the right to see old friends?
No one here knows the situation yet are responding as if this is a habbit for her. That she is not a good mother etc...
The translation clearly shows she is happy in the marriage by her reaction to her mothers comments.
What is the crime she committed seeing friends for a weekend?
As I said it is not week after week or night after night. It was a one time event. Had it been an often ordeal then there is issues for concern but it was not.
Now to those who feel that it is a joke to say marriage is based on TRUST.
To me then you should not be married.
While those of you want to knock others of us who believe this or who see nothing wrong with what the OP's wife did to be honest you need to look at yourselves. This clearly shows it is you who are not secure in your own relationships to feel you have to spy, and or watch every move your wife makes. Do not try to turn it around that I or others who agree in my views should look at our marriages. I have no problems if my wife wanted to go out with guy friends. I am secure enough in myself, in my wife and my marriage.
If you have issues I think you are the one lacking in the security.
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Well, going out with guys and getting drunk is definitely not the way for her to build that trust, and not the way for him to allow this giving her that 'freedom'. Especially when these men are Russian and he doesn't know them. Just one time you are saying, well, for me personally that would be totally enough! Even if my husband went with guys and got drunk! There would be a scandal of the year! Friends, old Russian buddies, come on, this is totally clear, and it's not the case that BF described. BillyB noticed she put a smilie at the end of her sentence "come over, my husband won't be here and I will be alone" ;)
I am sure this chatting sample isn't just the only chatting session, and her drinking and going with men episode isn't probably either.
But another thing - what is her husband not doing right that is driving her away to do all these things??? What ever she is seeking outside she isn't getting inside the marriage. It's not an excuse for her actions, but if we want to dig deeper.
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After my wife arrived and we began meeting Russian expats here in the US, one strong impression I felt (I had nothing to go on but my senses) was that the Russian people immediately assumed that my wife married me out of convenience. They didn't say anything to this affect, but there was a certain coldness that went beyond a first meeting of strangers - like they didn't want to get close to me or, in American parlance, they didn't want to look me in the eye. I also noticed that during such meetings there were usually a few single Russian guys who immediately made a beeline to talk to my wife whenever I was distracted. They hung around for a few hours and then quietly left.
I had my suspicions but it wasn't until a year or so later when one of the married guys who was there (and who has since become a very close friend of mine) explained to me that Russian guys living in the US make a sport of being first to doink the wife of an American, since they (often correctly) assume she didn't marry for love.
I've been a big defender of RM on here whenever the old cliches about alcoholics and abusers surfaces, and quite frankly in my younger days I would have behaved similarly. Yet if my gf/fiancee/wife was disappearing for the weekend (and the OP can correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound like something she did for the first time) and getting drunk with a group of RM, I wouldn't hang around much longer - and I'm 200% certain that were the situation reversed, my wife would feel the same.
FWIW, my wife goes out maybe one night per week with her Russian friends, with my blessing. I'm always invited and sometimes I'll join them, but mostly I understand that even if she wont admit it, she needs her own space so I make an excuse and find something else to do.
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what i'm trying to say is perhaps she was losing touch with her russian identity & the change you've seen is her trying to re-connect with her identity?
I think your definatly onto something there. Maybe i'm misinterpreting her reverting back to her true ukrainian identity as somehow cheating on me. Myabe i'm a controlling jerk because how i feel is that i've worked so hard to assimiliate her into American culture and she finally is adapted extremely well i feel like she took a major step backwards. Its NOT that i have a problem with the culture itself is that life has been extrmely hard for her here, due to her nieveness of american ways and laws. I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsability with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities, just like she had done ALL weekeend.
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i will try to read all of the replies to evening, i'm at work now and i didnt want to read this while at the house, as she was looking over my shoulder all day.
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I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsability with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities, just like she had done ALL weekeend.
Thank you. This is the answer that I was looking for. Sadly, you married a woman who likes to party and being drunk 24/7. Bringing her to America wasn't going to magically change that. This, I would argue, is not part of a Ukrainian identity, but it may be part of her identiy. There are many, many Ukrainians and Russian who do not drink 24/7. The question is whether you want a wife who will continue drinking and partying with friends?
Also, how old are you? How old is she?
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Many here are completely missing the point of what the OP wrote.
HE only wrote of ONE occasion of her going away with guy friends and getting drunk. No where did he say she does this night after night or weekend after weekend. Only ONE situation this occured and so many are making her out to be a bad person without knowing the story or who the Men were to her.
I don't think anyone missed any point. One time is all it takes to drive a husband nuts. It drove the OP to come here to say he suspects his wife cheating on him. It drove the OP to do some investigating to find what she's talked about in her mail. What you guys translated for him doesn't bring him more comfort. Even if he's over paranoid with ONE incident, he can't live with it so he needs to do something about it to give him peace of mind.
If you guys translated a conversation between his wife and her male friends that simply said "Hey, me and a few other college buddies are going out for a few drinks and going talk about old times" that would be more comforting for him. They didn't even offer to invite the husband. But she made it a point to tell the men the husband will go and she will be alone "smiley face"
hiii98, Read what Misha wrote how he observed his wife's behavior and was comfortable about it before marrying her. You seem to have known your wife was a party animal back in Ukraine yet you married her anyway. Yeah the sex was fun but you did yourself no favors thinking you could tame a wild animal. Just ask Roy Horn of Siegfried and Roy. At the time you married her, she was not marriage material.
She's looking over your shoulder now because she suspects you're on to her. Don't delay. Have a talk now and get some closure.
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I think your definatly onto something there. Maybe i'm misinterpreting her reverting back to her true ukrainian identity as somehow cheating on me. Myabe i'm a controlling jerk because how i feel is that i've worked so hard to assimiliate her into American culture and she finally is adapted extremely well i feel like she took a major step backwards. Its NOT that i have a problem with the culture itself is that life has been extrmely hard for her here, due to her nieveness of american ways and laws. I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsability with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities, just like she had done ALL weekeend.
You only know about this little chat, maybe there so many things she has said and done that you don't know anything about.
After this chat you must do all you can to find out more about her.
At this time dont tell her about this chat
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Sadly, you married a woman who likes to party and being drunk 24/7.
Misha,
I agree that drinking 24/7 is absurd, yet your use of the word "sadly" makes you seem judgmental, perhaps sanctimonious.
Some of us enjoy partying, and some of us enjoy the personality that enjoys a party.
I am certain that your wife is a good person as are you. From what you have described over the years, the two of you are near soulmates.
My wife and I are starkly different from you and your wife. No offense intended, however, if my wife were married to you she would be bored to death. A bike ride and afternoon tea would not do it for her. And I am certain you would probably find her not your cup of tea.
Just because my wife and I are different from you does not make us unhappy, nor does it make us bad. It means only that we are different.
My wife is lively and I relish such personalities. She really enjoys a party, so she goes out with her friends 1-2 times per week. When with RW, she comes home the latest (2 am).
The difference from the OP’s wife:
- My wife goes out with women friends, not men friends.
- Almost all of her friends are married.
- She calls me frequently and makes me speak to the other RW.
Do I worry? Yes. Two issues.
- One is DUI, so we talk about that far more than with whom she danced.
- The other is her insisting that I come with her. When I do, I have a great time; however, we don't return until 3-4 am, and I lose all my golf wagers the next day because I am tired.
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Quote from: CallMeSasha on Today at 03:39:31 AM
what i'm trying to say is perhaps she was losing touch with her russian identity & the change you've seen is her trying to re-connect with her identity?
I think your definatly onto something there. Maybe i'm misinterpreting her reverting back to her true ukrainian identity as somehow cheating on me.
Without commenting on the OP's particular situation, I was inclined to chalk up the first quote from CallMeSasha as a silly rationalization, yet another way that men deceive themselves when they're in over their heads. But there is another angle besides the "losing touch w/her russian identity" stuff: when a woman emigrates on a K1, at first she is 100% dependent on her fiance for everything, way beyond the basics of food, clothing, and shelter. In some ways it's like being responsible for a child. I can certainly understand that when she feels comfortable enough to start reaching out and making her own friends, going places alone, etc., that it can freak a guy out. After all, chances are he didn't live with her for an extended period and, even if her dependence upon him was sometimes annoying, eventually he got used to living this way and somewhere in his mind he expected things to continue as before. Just another adjustment to make, though - evolve or die.
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This girl will continue to drink and party. I dated a girl like this for fun in Kiev for almost two years and she was 30 years old. When I looked for a serious girl, I dumped her and bought her an apartment so she could continue her fun ways. You do not change party girls.
If you live in Milwaukee area you know that Milwaukee (top 25 city in USA population) has more bars per person than any city in the World. People from Milwaukee and Chicago drink more than any city over 100,000 you will find in Ukraine. Men here get wasted often. You married a party girl and took her to party land. If you live outside of Milwaukee in Wisconsin maybe worse as nothing to do.
Doll, I was going to help him by introdcuing his wife to the huge Russian population in Glendale and Whitefish Bay. But based on what he just wrote I will not. These Russians do not like the sport hunting Russian men that Groove talked about above. This girl is just fresh meat for these RM.
I was wrong to post about keyboard logger but once a man comes on RWD asking about trust his marriage is over. He now needs to realize he will be giving 60% of his assest to her and child support for 20 years. Unless he accepts her behavior.
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Reactionary tendencies? I will not apologize either for believing that certain morals should be upheld. I will not apologize for my belief that married men should not be out to the wee hours of the night with other women, and that women should not be out partying with men (regardless of whether they drink or not) leaving their baby and husband at home.
Predictably, my case in point. Who was asking you for an apology? I made a statement regarding how you instantly react to certain situation on little information to go on which parallels reactions of really insecure men ~ you do.
If you're wife went out with her friends one night, and for some unforeseen circumstances she wasn't able to come home as scheduled, or worst came home the next day - would have PM'd Muddy to get information on those keyloggers before she had an opportunity to explain?
Do I trust my wife? Yes, absolutely. I also value my wife for her behavior and her values.
I'm happy to hear that you do. That was my point.
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I agree that drinking 24/7 is absurd, yet your use of the word "sadly" makes you seem judgmental, perhaps sanctimonious.
I believe we have had this conversation before. You are right, I did find the right woman for me. If my wife would have been drinking 24/7 when we met, I would quickly have moved on.
If people want to drink (and drink, and drink) that is their choice. However, the problem is when a man marries a woman who exhibits certain traits before marriage and expects her to magically change just because she slips on a wedding ring. They will be invariably disappointed. Until proven to the contrary, I hold that you cannot change another person, as you can only change herself. Reading between the lines, it seems that the OP tried to change his wife, and tried to have her partying less. As I would expect, it does not seem to be working.
So, the moral of the story is that if you want a woman who does not drink and party (or anything else) after marriage, choose a woman who doesn't do it when you are dating.
Also, I will be judgmental and will state that I believe that a mother and father who drink too much will be detrimental to the well-being of a child. Sure, there will be countless examples to the contrary and we can quibble over how much is too much, but that is what I believe and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
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If you're wife went out with her friends one night, and for some unforeseen circumstances she wasn't able to come home as scheduled, or worst came home the next day - would have PM'd Muddy to get information on those keyloggers before she had an opportunity to explain?
I have received at least 37 messages about keyloggers in the last 10 days, I dont answer private message about the keyloggers pal.
:)
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If you're wife went out with her friends one night, and for some unforeseen circumstances she wasn't able to come home as scheduled, or worst came home the next day - would have PM'd Muddy to get information on those keyloggers before she had an opportunity to explain?
You really want to link me with Muddy and his keyloggers. Will it make you feel better?
You see, if my wife or I can't come back home as scheduled, we have cell phones. There are times when I have been out will colleagues and my wife and I will agree as to when I will call her (she hates being home late at night alone). Likewise, if she is out late at night, she will call if she is going to return later than planned. Where exactly is the problem? As for my wife coming home the next day: she never has, and I never come home later than 11:30.
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I have received at least 37 messages about keyloggers in the last 10 days, I dont answer private message about the keyloggers pal.
:)
Not surprisingly, LOL.
You see, if my wife or I <snip>
Hmmm Misha, didn't think I really had to explain unforeseen circumstances. But no matter...
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My wife is lively and I relish such personalities. She really enjoys a party, so she goes out with her friends 1-2 times per week. When with RW, she comes home the latest (2 am).
The difference from the OP’s wife:
- My wife goes out with women friends, not men friends.
- Almost all of her friends are married.
- She calls me frequently and makes me speak to the other RW.
Gator,
She goes out.. that's all you know..
What you don't see, you don't worry about..
Is your wife a closet lesbian?
... of course not to all of the above.. you trust and that makes a universe of difference.
point made?
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Hmmm Misha, didn't think I really had to explain unforeseen circumstances. But no matter...
You seem to be the expert on this matter. Give me examples of unforeseen circumstances where you would not have access to either a phone or a cell phone. Again, one can always find excuses for being inconsiderate.
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if my wife were married to you she would be bored to death.
I would kill myself! :D
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Predictably, my case in point. Who was asking you for an apology? I made a statement regarding how you instantly react to certain situation on little information to go on which parallels reactions of really insecure men ~ you do.
If you're wife went out with her friends one night, and for some unforeseen circumstances she wasn't able to come home as scheduled, or worst came home the next day - would have PM'd Muddy to get information on those keyloggers before she had an opportunity to explain?
I'm happy to hear that you do. That was my point.
GQBlues, I think you are reading too much into Misha's words and are coming to wrong conclusions. I think Misha is not paranoid or overly cautious or a control freak. Not at all. It's just reasonable thinking and sticking to the values. If his wife went out with her friends, Misha would worry a little but that wouldn't be about trust between two of them. You are overstating it. I personally totally see this. I never go out late with anybody, leave alone with men. I don't go out at all by myself, only with my husband or mom, and that happens pretty rarely, once every 2-3 months. Married life with children is not a party, it's mostly work and responsibility, even on week-ends.
Gator, wow, I didn't really expect it, you guys have three kids if i am not mistaken...surprised, surprised, she is probably missing communication with Russian women a lot! ;)
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Being drunk 24/7 does not sound real. I don't believe OP in this regard.
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GoodOlBoy would like to talk about the word "partying".
Call me "old fashion", BUT...Partying to me means going out with your men and women friends (maybe with your spouse, if you are married) and having a good time.
Correct me if I am wrong, BUT...I consider what the OP's wife is doing is dating, NOT partying.
She is going out on "dates" with single men (Russian?) and doing whatever all hours of the day and night and inviting them over to the house when the husband is not around (the coast is clear Sergei :evil:).
I think the word "partying" is used in a very broad brush stroke today to condone all kinds of bad behavior. :rolleyes2:
GOB
BTW....I would hate to be this womens baby, no milk all weekend....I would be pissed off!.......or worse yet....breast milk with alcohol in it? :evil:
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I would kill myself! :D
That's okay, I would never have married you ;)
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You seem to be the expert on this matter. Give me examples of unforeseen circumstances where you would not have access to either a phone or a cell phone. Again, one can always find excuses for being inconsiderate.
Getting abducted my martians is certainly a good example....
Anastassia,
I disagree. As you can see, I haven't even arrived to any conclusion regarding Misha. I doubt Martians fly over Canada to abduct anyone..
As for people doing what they do, when they do, how they do...we are not all alike. Being different doesn't make it either right or wrong however.
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If his wife went out with her friends, Misha would worry a little but that wouldn't be about trust between two of them.
Of course. If my wife told me that she was supposed to be home by 11 and she was not in by 12 without calling, I would be worried. Car accidents do happen, along with a variety of other unpleasant things :rolleyes2:
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That's okay, I would never have married you ;)
OK. I am relieved now :D
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I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsibility with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsibilities, just like she had done ALL weekend.
So she was drunk all the time back in Ukraine? You married the girl who was continuously partying? Don't get it.
You say children- plural. Do you have more than one?
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The OP asked if we feel his wife is cheating on him. There is no definative answer in the chat log but it doesn't look good. If she hasn't yet she will. Her behavior, if continued will lead to that.
So OP, she may or may not have cheated yet but she will!
And if you don't understand that you have bigger problems than that then you are doomed and no one can help you.
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There is nothing wrong in this chat though if she parties a lot then- maybe.
Come on, guys, we don't know much enough to judge.
How old is OP? And she? Who are the children he mentioned?
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There is nothing wrong in this chat though if she parties a lot then- maybe.
Come on, guys, we don't know much enough to judge.
How old is OP? And she? Who are the children he mentioned?
The child is one year old. The mother is already leaving to party overnight with men. Saying "maybe" is an understatement in my book. If she doesn't consent she'll probably get raped at some point.
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So OP, she may or may not have cheated yet but she will!
Willingly or unwillingly that is a possibility. If the OP asked his wife what she did last night and she answers "I don't remember, I was too drunk", that is a very bad answer.
There are Russian men in the States that understand some American men are marrying out of their league and their RW wives are not happy or attracted to their husbands and can easily be tempted by a handsome and exciting RM who shows up at the club. So what's the big deal of a night of ecstasy outside of the marriage? Pick up a disease, expensive and painful divorce, an unborn baby aborted so the husband doesn't find out or a child born that the husband may have to support till adulthood even if it's not his.
The OP's wife's actions of late is unacceptable. Ask your wife how'd she feel if she caught you writing "The wife will leave and I will be alone ;) " to another woman or even worse....another man! She, especially if she's a RW, will be much less forgiving than many of the posters here.
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The child is one year old. The mother is already leaving to party overnight with men. Saying "maybe" is an understatement in my book. If she doesn't consent she'll probably get raped at some point.
Her husband seems to be OK. What if it is her first time she got away from the baby?
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Her husband seems to be OK.
Doll, you are failing to understand that the OP's marriage is in danger of dissolving and he's looking for answers to the point he's talking about it on a public forum and snooping through the wife's mail and probably other things. He's not OK.
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Her husband seems to be OK. What of it is her first time she got away from the baby?
Home is where the heart is...her heart is not in this marriage or her child.
It may be her first time or tenth time. The OP didn't state. But one thing is certain: it isn't the first time she gave thought to it. This came from planning. Planning comes from desire. Desire comes from lack of fullfillment. Lack of fullfillment comes from......etc. etc.
The child needs to be protected. That is all I see.
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Doll, you are failing to understand that the OP's marriage is in danger of dissolving and he's looking for answers to the point he's talking about it on a public forum and snooping through the wife's mail and probably other things. He's not OK.
I am not failing to understand that- I am failing to understand what is going on in this family, why he married the girl who was a party girl, why he let her go with her friends. He asks these questions here though he watch his wife do what she does.
In this regard - yes, I am failing, you're right
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Home is where the heart is...her heart is not in this marriage or her child.
It may be her first time or tenth time. The OP didn't state. But one thing is certain: it isn't the first time she gave thought to it. This came from planning. Planning comes from desire. Desire comes from lack of fullfillment. Lack of fullfillment comes from......etc. etc.
The child needs to be protected. That is all I see.
OMG! Stop screaming, JR! :D
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OMG! Stop screaming, JR! :D
Screaming?
THIS IS SCREAMING!!!! LOL
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Russian women party....
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.........................
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I was ok with her leaving over the weekend because i take alot of trips aroudnd the country for business and since she cannot legally travel on a airplane yet i felt bad for her being home and wanted her to have fun. Plus honestly its overbearing sometimes being around her 24/7 and was looking for some down time myself.
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LOL, you guys are doomed. You need to start formulating an exit plan.
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i take alot of trips aroudnd the country for business
Has most of her email records been erased or have you found evidence her emails get hot and heavy everytime right before you leave with the statement "Husband will leave and I will be all alone ;) " ?
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How many times has she gone back home without you to visit her family and FRIENDS?
I wonder if she writes her ex-boyfriends and makes plans to meet them on her trips.
Its so much easier when she does not have to worry about anything, and its definitely more fun
There is so much you dont know
Good Luck Pal
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I am not failing to understand that- I am failing to understand what is going on in this family, why he married the girl who was a party girl, why he let her go with her friends. He asks these questions here though he watch his wife do what she does.
In this regard - yes, I am failing, you're right
Doll
Do you go off for entire weekends for binge drinking with men who are not your husband? :)
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she cannot legally travel on a airplane
Why?
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Doll
Do you go off for entire weekends for binge drinking with men who are not your husband? :)
I barely ever drink and never do it if I need to drive. Also, I don't have to stay home 24/7 with a baby. When you are this young, lonely, don't drive and have a baby- it is hard.
Though I do go for entire weekends if I want.
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I barely ever drink and never do it if I need to drive. Also, I don't have to stay home 24/7 with a baby. When you are this young, lonely, don't drive and have a baby- it is hard.
Though I do go for entire weekends if I want.
It was a yes or no question Doll. You don't strike me as a woman who would do such a thing. I know you enjoy being the devils advocate always on the side of the RW and that is understandable but, there must be some RW behavior you do not condone?
He didn't say she stayed home 24/7 with the baby or if he did I missed it but it still wouldn't make any difference to me. She chose to marry the OP and she choose to give birth to a baby. She is a wife and mother first.
Nothing wrong with getting out of the house. Nothing wrong with getting away from husband and baby for a evening or a weekend but if you think she was just playing drinking games and tossing horseshoes with some old Ukranian pals, I have some real estate to sell you. A wife and mother interested in her marriage doesn't go away with with strange men for a weekend of drinking :wallbash:
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It was a yes or no question Doll.
Well, it is not the Language Art class :D There isn't yes or no what comes to relationships. Leave alcohol alone- yes I would go out.
He didn't say she stayed home 24/7 with the baby
He did
Speaking of advocating- the OP didn't say much. What he did say sounded like he okay'd her weekend.
How old are they (the OP and his wife)?
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OK, if it was my daughter I wouldn't like what she does.
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A wife and mother interested in her marriage doesn't go away with with strange men for a weekend of drinking :wallbash:
I'm not sure the men were "exactly" strangers. When the wife first came to America, she needs friends. That's normal. It seems she chose male friends. That's not normal. Maybe she met them at an online dating site or at a club at a previous time when the husband was away on a business trip. Apparently they had to have talked in someway previously to exchange email addresses.
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OK, if it was my daughter I wouldn't like what she does.
Fair enough. That what I was looking for ;D
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Gator, wow, I didn't really expect it, you guys have three kids if i am not mistaken...surprised, surprised, she is probably missing communication with Russian women a lot! ;)
Don't be surprised. Everything is fine. My wife is very social and has several groups of friends. One group for shopping, another for chatting, one for sport club exercise classes, one from children's schools, etc. The "2 am party" occurs twice per month when a large group of RW in the Tampa area (from 50-200 dependent upon the turnout) get together. Yes, she says those evenings are like returning to Russia.
She has two kids. When we first met, they were 4 and 5. Now they are 12 and 13. She is a fantastic mother or otherwise we would not have married. Even though she became a single mom when the kids were only 2 and 3, she has given her kids the parental attention that she missed as a child when first her father and then her mother abandoned her to be raised by her grandmother.
The three of them are like a mother hen with two chicks following her ever step. They soon will be hormonally impaired teenagers, and the eventual leaving of the nest is starting to unfold.
She and the kids are embracing the American way. For example, I have the boy playing Pop Warner football and the girl is a cheerleader for his team. Nevertheless, it feels good to her to hang out and party with some RW, a culture she does not want to forget. Unlike the OP's wife, she avoids RM and only one of her best RW friends is married to a RM.
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I'm not sure the men were "exactly" strangers. When the wife first came to America, she needs friends. That's normal. It seems she chose male friends. That's not normal. Maybe she met them at an online dating site or at a club at a previous time when the husband was away on a business trip. Apparently they had to have talked in someway previously to exchange email addresses.
The OP said he didn't know them and wasn't introduced to them. In my mind that makes them strangers. I am baffled as to why he would allow it. I can understand her needing friends but not men friends that take her away for a weekend. There is nothing good that can come from that. She obviously has no respect for the husband, the baby or the marriage.
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I've been a big defender of RM on here .....
:ROFL:
PSYCHO!!!!!!!!
Russian women have a strong personality and are defintely smarter than men who stalk posters on the internet forums.
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She and the kids are embracing the American way. For example, I have the boy playing Pop Warner football and the girl is a cheerleader for his team.
LOL. I can't even begin to imagine the grown up version of those kids I met that day. Good for them and great for the two of you.
Nevertheless, it feels good to her to hang out and party with some RW, a culture she does not want to forget. Unlike the OP's wife, she avoids RM and only one of her best RW friends is married to a RM.
Two of my wife's friends are married to RMs. Great, great guys. One, the quiet one, is an extremist. Snowboards vertical inclines without hesitation and goes sky diving every weekend. He and his wife have a gorgeous little baby boy. Neither one drinks other than the casual beer.
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No offense intended, however, if my wife were married to you she would be bored to death.
Fascinating. When people say "no offense intended," it is of course intended as an insult :evil: No offense intended, Gator, but your wife would bore me to death as well, and you wouldn't be my wife's cup of tea either :rolleyes2:
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Fascinating. When people say "no offense intended," it is of course intended as an insult :evil: No offense intended, Gator, but your wife would bore me to death as well, and you wouldn't be my wife's cup of tea either :rolleyes2:
Misha, I must tell you Gator has been using the same boring avatar since he joined this forum, it cant get worst than this. So, I don't know what to say Gator, maybe its time to get a more interesting avatar my friend! :)
What do you think pal?
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This is such a hard place to be, and yet I have some experience with the situation that may be so very informative to this discussion.
The W in question is my now Ex-AW girlfriend of 2.5 years. I know, she's not Russian, but W are W no matter where you go and her situation is strikingly similar to that of a RW just imported to the US.
My ex met my city in December of 2006 [has it been THAT long??? :'(] when she moved here from another state. She had been divorced in September of 2006 in which her 2nd ex-husband simply got tired of dealing with her crap so he bought her a car and told her "there is your car, you may leave." In short, she was in a mental rollercoaster finding herself, as her life had been turned upside down all over again. She banished her religion [which was great, as I am Agnostic and quite Anti-religion due to the pyramid scheme underneath it all] and in that moment found herself explore herself and the world like never before.
And thus, her first ex who lived in this city of mine showed her to the club I frequented. I didn't drink, as it is bad for me, and she now found out she could drink because she no longer had a religious statute standing over her telling her NO! By natrual selection, I then became the safest ride home for her, especially considering I was adhemently not interested in being in a relationship with her. But I fell for her anyway.
There is a reason I fell for her: she is extremely flirtatious becasue she does not understand social ettiquette, body language, and lacks self control. As such, she has no problems running up to a person she's met a couple of times and giving the hug[coupe]-de-grac across the bow. It enough to turn any heart, and she does it with ALL of her friends.
She never got along with other girls as she was growing up, and to this day her friends are almost 100% guys. The problem is, while she just wants to be friends with them, guys are guys and it is especially hard when she send so many false smokesignals up their pipes.
Naturally, she recognized after one really bad night of binge drinking that we couldn;t go out anymore because it was so embarassing for me and for her. But after a couple weeks, she had to fill the void with another vice, and she did them always to extreme. religion, for example, came back to her as she watched a couple missionaries peddle across a parking lot, sending her heart all a flutter. Then when that crumpled her, she had to find something else. Her friends were in constant contact, asking when she would be out again, and finally she started going out again. The early times, it was me and here. Later on in the relationship, it was just her. I was working a serious job, and when I came home I was mentally and phycislaly worn out, and I needed sleep. she had been cooped up in an office all day, and so she was ready for some playtime. It just didn't work out.
In short, if she'd going out and drinking with a lot of guys, it only takes time for emotional relationships to start developing and for her to become another "AW' like the so many we wish to avoid in the first place.
Naturally, over time her feelings for me dissapaited. Now she is in the arms of some other poor sap and he's in line for the next toxic bomb she drops and my only relief is that it won't be ME this time!!!
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boy oh boy, such grand quantities of sage advice being offered.. won't even bother quoting.
The 'take names, kick butt, my way or highway' 'tude is really overbearing.
To hiii98 I can only say that I can identify a wee bit. We also live together 24/7 aside from a few business trips. Right now we're on 'break' for a whole month. I really can't add much, only to say again that if you have doubts, work them out.
To the rest of the peanut gallery.. did you hear me correctly?? My wife is away for a whole friggin month!! I haven't a clue what she is really up to and we don't even phone every day.. more like two or three times a week. She could tell me anything and I'd have to believe her. This ain't the first time either.. think it's about the tenth.. OMG.. I lost count! Sometime with kids, sometimes without, this time 50/50.. She even took most of her jewelry, her best threads AND the credit cards. I'm quite absolutely sure she is partying, even with folks I don't know, not even if they are male, female or shemale..
Am I doomed? Should I call a lawyer? maybe a detective?
...........
What amazes me the most is how long and to what extent man has worried about their women.
Anyone know where I can pick up one of these? Bet they are selling like popcorn.
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boy oh boy, such grand quantities of sage advice being offered.. won't even bother quoting.
The 'take names, kick butt, my way or highway' 'tude is really overbearing.
To hiii98 I can only say that I can identify a wee bit. We also live together 24/7 aside from a few business trips. Right now we're on 'break' for a whole month. I really can't add much, only to say again that if you have doubts, work them out.
To the rest of the peanut gallery.. did you hear me correctly?? My wife is away for a whole friggin month!! I haven't a clue what she is really up to and we don't even phone every day.. more like two or three times a week. She could tell me anything and I'd have to believe her. This ain't the first time either.. think it's about the tenth.. OMG.. I lost count! Sometime with kids, sometimes without, this time 50/50.. She even took most of her jewelry, her best threads AND the credit cards. I'm quite absolutely sure she is partying, even with folks I don't know, not even if they are male, female or shemale..
Am I doomed? Should I call a lawyer? maybe a detective?
...........
What amazes me the most is how long and to what extent man has worried about their women.
Anyone know where I can pick up one of these? Bet they are selling like popcorn.
Probably the most sensible post in this entire thread. ;)
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My wife is away for a whole friggin month!! I haven't a clue what she is really up to
hiii98 WAS just like you for a majority of his marriage. No worries when wife's not in site. He trusted her but recently, unlike in your marriage, he found something out and it's not normal what his wife did within a marriage. Some people shouldn't get married if they don't want commitment or responsibility. Life would be so much easier if people wouldn't get married if they want the no strings attached relationship. hiii98 is in a marriage and within his right to tell his wife her activities, getting sh!t faced drunk with men all weekend long and flirting on the internet, has got to stop. If she's not smart enough to understand or caring enough to listen to him, then she's dumb and selfish, period. There's not one good thing about what she did that will make their marriage healthier and stronger. It's destructive behavior. Look at the evidence. hiii98 did not come here to tell everyone about his wonderful marriage full of trust.
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What amazes me the most is how long and to what extent man has worried about their women.
And it is supposed to be women who are the emotional ones!! If you want to find out just how strong a man is, take away his true love, whether she loves him or not...
When my ex-girlfriend was gone just one night with the boys I was worried sick about her until she got home. When she got home, I was relieved but still sad that she didn't want to be with me but prefered their company to mine. Now I am just sad she's not with me any more, because I truly did love her. I just wish she treated me better...which is why I'm so glad it's OVER!
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As is usual in these types of threads people are extrapolating and making huge leaps to reach absolute conclusions on very little or even no information. Get some perspective people.
Billy, really, my wife thinks that conversation was innocent enough as do other native speakers why do you insist on making it into something it was not?
Yes, the OP's wife going out all night when there's a 1 year old at home is not to everyone's liking for sure, but that's not a 100% guarantee of infidelity as some here are suggesting. And, FWIW, I know a number of women that have totally platonic men friends; I know that is difficult for some people to grasp, but it is possible. Yes, really, it is. :o
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What was posted is only one side of a conversation. That's why it's hard to make sense of it. I'm surprised nobody caught this. Try to fill in the blanks and it becomes much clearer.
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He trusted her but recently, unlike in your marriage, he found something out and it's not normal what his wife did within a marriage.
Look at the evidence. hiii98 did not come here to tell everyone about his wonderful marriage full of trust.
Someone once told me "Son, if you go around sticking your fingers into places they don't really belong, don't be surprised if it doesn't come out smelling like roses."
They will work it out themselves one way or another, but resolution certainly is not to be found in this thread.
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so why not just talk to her ? I do not see it mentioned anywhere that he talked to her and let her know that her behavior is unpleasant to him. What i see is him snooping around her chatlogs, but not talking to her. Is that normal marriage behavior? I thought the normal thing to do was talk, if you feel uncomfortable, but the first thing he did was go through her personal stuff. Me thinks they both are engaged in unacceptable activities.
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Me thinks they both are engaged in unacceptable activities.
I agree. Posting your wife's private conversation on an internet forum shows as much respect for the marriage as partying all night with a bunch of dudes... in other words none.
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I agree. Posting your wife's private conversation on an internet forum shows as much respect for the marriage as partying all night with a bunch of dudes... in other words none.
:applaud:
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What was posted is only one side of a conversation. That's why it's hard to make sense of it. I'm surprised nobody caught this. Try to fill in the blanks and it becomes much clearer.
We did. Anyway none of us, natives, found anything really bad in it- the OP wife is talking to a guy who has (had) a gf. They are friends- this is for sure, but nothing about cheating.
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I don't know about anybody else, But....I sure feel sorry for that baby.
He/She grows up knowing Mom goes out all night with men, comes home drunk days later and invites "Uncle Sergei" over to the house for a little "fun time :)" while Dad's away at work. :evil:
Sounds like an outstanding environment for raising the next dysfunctional child in the GoodOl' USA. :rolleyes2:
GOB
BTW....As an added bonus, he/she will catch it from friends and enemies at school all day long...."My Mom says your Mom is a drunk and a whore"........nice.
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not a 100% guarantee of infidelity as some here are suggesting.
The innocent speach led to un-marriage like activities based off a converstation that the husband is leaving and she will be alone"smiley face". The wife doesn't have to be unfaithful but she put herself in a position of weakness that could destroy her marriage. Stupid. Most people can't live with stupid.
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Yes, the OP's wife going out all night when there's a 1 year old at home is not to everyone's liking for sure, but that's not a 100% guarantee of infidelity as some here are suggesting. And, FWIW, I know a number of women that have totally platonic men friends; I know that is difficult for some people to grasp, but it is possible. Yes, really, it is. :o
There are no 100% guarantees in life. Still, a woman going out on a тусовка with a group of men is certainly increasing the odds exponentially that it will happen sooner or later. I related this story to my wife. Her reaction: "Are they idiots? It would be normal for a man to be a bit jealous under these circumstances." She didn't believe that the OP's wife would stay faithful for long.
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This situation reminds me of a time of my life when I was like an uncaged animal in the singles world.
I dont know weather to laugh or cry. ???
My friends and I were very social people. I.E. After the business was done for the week there was not a club,bar,and or event left unexplored.
It never failed. In fact you could count on it. You would eventually meet some married women before the night was over.
Most were respectable women out with their girlfriends for a night on the town. But there was always 1 or 2 who were different.
When you met one of the different ones your moral compass would start to work. There would never be a problem to satisfy your urges if you chose to go that route.
The questions going off in my head were, wheres the husband? What kind of man would be alright with this? Which leads too, she must be lying to him for him to be okay with this. Or they have a very open relationship which means its ok to proceed?
The laughable part?? Well I always wondered who the husband was of the women who was grinding her backside in my crotch. I felt bad for him until the alcohol kicked in. Im getting a glimpse of him in this thread.
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that reminds me, some women say that dancing in the ways you describe (rubbing up against someone) is a way for them to prevent cheating. Im not sure its good, but its definitely better than going and actually cheating. They will dance, but not cheat
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that reminds me, some women say that dancing in the ways you describe (rubbing up against someone) is a way for them to prevent cheating. Im not sure its good, but its definitely better than going and actually cheating. They will dance, but not cheat
Being flirtatious to satisfy themselves that they're still attractive to men? If so, maybe they don't - or think they don't - receive as much attention from their husbands as they expect.
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As is usual in these types of threads people are extrapolating and making huge leaps to reach absolute conclusions on very little or even no information. Get some perspective people. <snip> And, FWIW, I know a number of women that have totally platonic men friends; I know that is difficult for some people to grasp, but it is possible. Yes, really, it is. :o
There are definitely men in this thread who likely gets bent out of shape when they see their wives having a conversation with another man. Heaven forbid if she ever crack a smile while speaking with him. How people can put so much in between, and make damning conclusion, in what little they read.
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There are no 100% guarantees in life. Still, a woman going out on a тусовка with a group of men is certainly increasing the odds exponentially that it will happen sooner or later. I related this story to my wife. Her reaction: "Are they idiots? It would be normal for a man to be a bit jealous under these circumstances." She didn't believe that the OP's wife would stay faithful for long.
I guess what you and Billy don't understand is that if your wife is going to cheat, she will cheat regardless of whether she is out partying all night or not. Stopping her from going out with friends will more than likely drive her away and weaken a marriage. Remember, trust is everything and once that is lost, you may as well give up.
I do agree that what the OP's wife did was unacceptable in that she partied a good portion of the weekend and came home drunk when there was a 1 year old kid in the house. It's not something I would accept at least but I would not assume infidelity based on that.
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They are friends- this is for sure, but nothing about cheating.
Nothing direct about cheating, I agree. She's talking to one party guy about a friend who passed out in the car and another guy whose house she left her dress at, probably where she spent the night. She invites him over to hot tub while her husband is away. Wink wink. Typical party girl stuff. Doesn't sound good to me. Really, who knows? Half of the conversation is missing.
I've know quite a few women that would go out partying with the guys (including me) while their husbands sat at home. Without exception they all ended up cheating and leaving their husbands. I could see it coming a mile away. If a woman would rather spend her weekends getting drunk with a bunch of party animals like me rather than with her husband, she married the wrong man.
I can't say much about this situation. I have too many questions for the original poster:
How old are you and how old is your wife?
Was your child planned or did your wife get pregnant by accident? You say you've been married for 1 year with a 1 year old child. Did you get married because she was pregnant?
How did she meet these guys?
Was this weekend a one time thing, or is this her regular behavior?
You say you usually spend 24/7 with her, do you work from home?
Does your wife work?
What did she do back home?
How much time did you spend with her before getting married?
Why is she taking a bus to Chicago? Does she not drive or have a car?
Why wasn't she allowed to fly???
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I guess what you and Billy don't understand is that if your wife is going to cheat, she will cheat regardless of whether she is out partying all night or not.
When the signs are there that your wife/husband is going to cheat, you have to sit down and talk through it. You have to figure out what is going on and define what is acceptable to both of you. Sticking your head in the sand won't help. If anything, it may just as well tell your spouse that you could care less about them.
Stopping her from going out with friends will more than likely drive her away and weaken a marriage. Remember, trust is everything and once that is lost, you may as well give up.
And going out partying with men strengthens a marriage :rolleyes2: I believe that trust is not a given, it is something that is earned over time. To trust blindly is naive at best. But then again, perhaps ignorance is bliss.
I do agree that what the OP's wife did was unacceptable in that she partied a good portion of the weekend and came home drunk when there was a 1 year old kid in the house.
At least we can agree on that.
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She invites him over
She invites them-plural
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She invites them-plural
Yup. Them. Dima and the guy at whose house she left her dress. Party time!
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Yeah....and meanwhile junior is in the next room listening to Mommy dearest :rolleyes2: with "Uncle Dima" and "Uncle Sergei" having a little "private party" in the hot tub! :evil:
Where's my Daddy? :noidea:
GOB
PS........It might be time to call the Jerry Springer Show? :evil:
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It might be time to call the Jerry Springer Show
It is time for the OP to say NO to his wife's parties
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boy oh boy, such grand quantities of sage advice being offered.. won't even bother quoting.
The 'take names, kick butt, my way or highway' 'tude is really overbearing.
To hiii98 I can only say that I can identify a wee bit. We also live together 24/7 aside from a few business trips. Right now we're on 'break' for a whole month. I really can't add much, only to say again that if you have doubts, work them out.
To the rest of the peanut gallery.. did you hear me correctly?? My wife is away for a whole friggin month!! I haven't a clue what she is really up to and we don't even phone every day.. more like two or three times a week. She could tell me anything and I'd have to believe her. This ain't the first time either.. think it's about the tenth.. OMG.. I lost count! Sometime with kids, sometimes without, this time 50/50.. She even took most of her jewelry, her best threads AND the credit cards. I'm quite absolutely sure she is partying, even with folks I don't know, not even if they are male, female or shemale..
Am I doomed? Should I call a lawyer? maybe a detective?
...........
What amazes me the most is how long and to what extent man has worried about their women.
Anyone know where I can pick up one of these? Bet they are selling like popcorn.
Nice post BC. It is sort of the human dilemma...trust . Either you will trust someone or you won't trust them. Or maybe trust them by degrees which is a partial trust. One can trust the wrong person...happens all the time. Suffice to say you can trust someone and be disappointed and thats life, read some Shakespeare and you'll find us humans have a skill at betrayal. Sooner or later we all place some trust in the wrong person and hopefully we learn from it. Can't figure out much from what the OP posted or the translations but he should be aware that something is not quite right with his wife. Sometimes you just have to trust or you become like a guy I used to know.
Used to know and had to lose him. The guy could not trust ANYBODY. Except for his wife of 30 years, but he really didn't trust her because he would read her emails and track her computer visits and listen in to her telephone calls and and check her car mileage even while she was at work he would believe she was screwing some guys at work. Absloutely crazed. Talk about clinical paranoia. After 30 years of marriage he did not trust his wife although she did nothing untoward.
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It is time for the OP to say NO to his wife's parties
:thumbsup:
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There are definitely men in this thread who likely gets bent out of shape when they see their wives having a conversation with another man.
Yeah....I guess you can call me one of those "control freaks" GQ. 8)
If I came home from work and found my wife in our hot tub, with 2 strange men (probably all drunk) and my child was in the next room.......yeah, I guess I would get a "little" bent out of shape! :rolleyes2:
GOB
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If I came home from work and found my wife in our hot tub, with 2 men (probably drunk) and my child was in the next room.......yeah, I guess I would get a "little" bent out of shape!
IF. Exactly. Short yet a powerful word.
But I'm sure you also understand you took a HUGE leap from speaking with a man - to - a doing the nasty in a hot tub session with Dick Long & Baht Fach playing double input while the baby is screaming itself into utter submission in the other room 8).
I just can't believe these Russian women! :burnedup:
Used to know and had to lose him. The guy could not trust ANYBODY. Except for his wife of 30 years, but he really didn't trust her because he would read her emails and track her computer visits and listen in to her telephone calls and and check her car mileage even while she was at work he would believe she was screwing some guys at work. Absloutely crazed. Talk about clinical paranoia. After 30 years of marriage he did not trust his wife although she did nothing untoward.
He should've gone to message boards like this and posted his very short, incomplete version of his story. He'll undobtedly get validation that his wife, without a doubt, is screwing every man she looked at. It'll only require a very minimal information to do so too.
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There are definitely men in this thread who likely gets bent out of shape when they see their wives having a conversation with another man. Heaven forbid if she ever crack a smile while speaking with him. How people can put so much in between, and make damning conclusion, in what little they read.
And, where do you draw the line? At what point would you say enough is enough? I do not equate having a conversation with another man with going out for a group of men getting drunk.
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If I came home from work and found my wife in our hot tub, with 2 strange men (probably all drunk) and my child was in the next room.......yeah, I guess I would get a "little" bent out of shape! :rolleyes2:
GOB, how reactionary of you! Imagine the gall of interrupting her as she is affirming her national identity, intruding on her private space, not trusting your wife. It's cultural you know :evil:
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23)19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna
23)You can come to me,my husband going somewhere soon
Incomplete translation. It reads "Come to me, my husband is going somewhere soon, so I will be alone..."
Trust - and the ability to trust without question. It was one ideal my wife and I held as uncompromisable. I cannot
imagine her having a chat session as this one (and yeah, she's 46 ... this exchange smacks of a more youthful woman
in its content and delivery). It appears that the elephant in this room is quite invisible to a few optimists here.
BC wrote:
I suggest the OP simply forget about the chat and work on his relationship instead.
Without delay. Personally, I don't have to check my wife's correspondence, nor - like BC - do I worry about
her activities while she's away - out with her girlfriends - or home for extended times in Russia....
But since the OP posted her text - and based on that one sentence - I'd say some serious work lies ahead.
Like Good Ol Boy, I couldn't begin to try to rationalize what's going on here... whether the lady is cheating
or not is almost beside the point. It's the casualness in the entire passage, and that one sentence quoted
above - that makes this marriage scream "FIX ME"...
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IF. Exactly. Short yet a powerful word.
Yes and in the OP's case it is not IF, BUT....WHEN he comes home from work one day.:D
GOB
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It is time for the OP to say NO to his wife's parties
Yes, its time for him to have a heart to heart but I doubt it will do any good. Her response will be the same as what you are hearing in this thread. ( I.E. They are my friends dear, dont be jeolous sweetheart). She knows she is in control. This man is going to have a lot of sleepless nights for the sake of trusting his wife.
I would tell her or have a discussion about the situation and when she replies with the same type of excuses you are hearing here it will be time to start moving in a diffirent direction. This might be what she wants. Trying to push him to end the relationship.
First thing I would do is shine up the black shoes and press the dress shirt and hit the party scene while she is taking care of the child. Im sure she wouldn't mind.
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Yes and in the OP's case it is not IF, BUT....WHEN he comes home from work one day.
Well GOB why wait? Suggest the OP file a divorce NOW because it is not only highly probable but inevitable the hot tub water will require chlorinating soon 'nuff. Forget trying to fix the marriage. After all, like everyone is saying again...once a party girl ~ always party girl.
Maybe she's a GC girl too?
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the hot tub water will require chlorinating soon 'nuff.
If a couple of those "ball hugging" bathing suits were in my hot tub, I would definitley drain out every drop of water! :D
GOB
PS....Don't get me started about RM GQ, trust me....you don't even want to hear it. :evil:
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It is time for the OP to say NO to his wife's parties
Wait, weren't you one of the RW earlier who said the converstion between the wife and a male friend was innocent?
She said she left her dress at Marinov's house and soon after the conversation turned to "You can come to me,my husband going somewhere soon" and some hot tub fun.
Some people may have a hard time to understand which person is talking and when but it's pretty clear who wears the dress and has a husband.
For some people wife swapping is acceptable. For most married couples this converstation isn't. For others, they're fine if things fall within the grey area. Both can have any type of fun when they are apart. It's not only accepted, it's expected.
Reacting to this event has nothing to do with being jealous and total control freak as some have insinuated. Most people's reaction to this event is NORMAL. Ask your wife or gf if she found you talking about bringing some women friends over for some hot tub fun when she's gone and later she finds you delivered home drunk by the same ladies you just met. Go ahead and try the "You have no reason to worry" and "You can trust me! Your lack of trust is going to destroy our marriage!" statements and see what happens. My guess is you're going to be on the "crap" and "no sex" list for a long time.
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Billy, I happen to know quite a few Russian men here in North Carolina - some married, some not. I am also
quite sure that had events like this been transpiring here at our home, a simple call by me to the other man
or men in question would not only be expected by them - but understood. I would not be envisioned by them
(nor by my wife for that matter) as a Control Freak - but just as a husband who is asserting himself in a most
normal manner. To refrain from such a phone call would conversely be envisioned as rather foolish. And indifferent.
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Wait, weren't you one of the RW earlier who said the conversation between the wife and a male friend was innocent?
The conversation was innocent. Are we talking of this chat or going out for parties?
I don't think anybody would love it. Me neither.
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marriage is based on trust
:ROFL:
I thought it is based on young age, soft flesh, and agreeable (in various ways, depending on the tastes) nature of females... this is how most decisions are made since no one present here is known to be married to an old witch. What lasting marriage is built on is a different question.
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You dont think meeting at noon or late afternoon would be better? so your husband does not worry about you and where you are at mid night!
theoretically yes, but intercourse can be performed at any time of the day. If the woman wants to cheat - OP will not secure himself by letting his wife out only during daytime.
as for the IM monologue provided by OP - it seems to me that this woman loves her husband, and even though it is not always easy - she tries to make marriage work. She says that she is mad at her mom when her mom tells her that the OP and his wife aren't good match for cultural reasons. If OP continues spying on his wife - I tend to think that OP's wife may soon start agreeing with her mom.
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She invites him over to hot tub while her husband is away.
there was nothing about a hottub in the monologue. She just invited few friends to come over and make her company while her husband will be gone. I too feel it more convenient to invite my female friends to stay over when my husband is on trips. Primarily because when my husband is at home - i rather spend time with him and don't have other people intrude into our home life, but once he's away - I may feel lonely and like to have a company at home. An extra pro is that when my husband is not at home - my friends will not be a nuisance for him - taking his time, or using couch space. I feel it is a win-win situation.
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I too feel it more convenient to invite my female friends to stay over when my husband is on trips.
What would your husband say if you invited over a few male friends to stay over when he is on a trip?
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Wheres Sculpto??
Im waiting to see the ultra liberal view on this problem. Should be interesting
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it seems to me that this woman loves her husband, and even though it is not always easy -
Hope I never experience this type of love from a women.
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What would your husband say if you invited over a few male friends to stay over when he is on a trip?
And you know then that she was inviting men? How about the women that were mentioned in that chat? Hm? Not so clear now I guess, right? People should read what Mies has said as it's also echoed by my wife - remember, she is inviting more than one person over to keep her company while her husband is away.
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And you know then that she was inviting men? How about the women that were mentioned in that chat? Hm? Not so clear now I guess, right? People should read what Mies has said as it's also echoed by my wife - remember, she is inviting more than one person over to keep her company while her husband is away.
I would prefer an answer from Mies :rolleyes2: But, feel free to ask your wife is she would mind you inviting a few single women to keep you company while she is away :evil:
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Yes, she inviting a company. BTW we can't say they are coming.
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I would prefer an answer from Mies :rolleyes2: But, feel free to ask your wife is she would mind you inviting a few single women to keep you company while she is away :evil:
Should I lay off my secretary until my wife gets back?
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Should I lay off my secretary until my wife gets back?
No, but make sure to invite her to stay over for a weekend at your house while your wife is away. Then get back to me to tell me your wife's reaction :evil:
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Primarily because when my husband is at home - i rather spend time with him and don't have other people intrude into our home life, but once he's away - I may feel lonely and like to have a company at home. An extra pro is that when my husband is not at home - my friends will not be a nuisance for him - taking his time, or using couch space. I feel it is a win-win situation.
Too much logic in that post, mies. It is not on the menu for the masses.
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No, but make sure to invite her to stay over for a weekend at your house while your wife is away. Then get back to me to tell me your wife's reaction :evil:
Been there, done that.. not only for a weekend but major part of a month.
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Been there, done that.. not only for a weekend but major part of a month.
So she was spending nights, sleeping in your home, drinking, etc...
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Ok, all senerios have been hashed out but the problem is not solved yet.
What should the OP's next step be? How should he solve his delimma?
Grit his teeth and endure the pain?
See a counselor?
Work on his insecurity?
Follow his insticts?
I say start looking for a way out.
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What should the OP's next step be?
IMHO: talk to a good lawyer, just in case.
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Should I lay off my secretary until my wife gets back?
Quite a different situation - no, BC? You and your wife are secure in one another. Or have
you and the secretary tested the waters by arriving home late on a weekend drunk together?
Traveled across state (province) lines by vehicle after a missed bus? Do you message your
secretary "Come over - the wife's going out somewhere - I'll be alone" ? Your relationship is
one of profession, not nearly like the recreational one about which this thread was authored.
BC - I see your point clearly. Others, esp the OP, may not.
Of course this guy's wife should have the right to select her friends. She should also exercise the
wherewithal to nurture her marriage - is her behavior at fault? - or is this fellow overreacting?
My take is that some of both is in play, and that it's time to have a serious sitdown outlining those
activities that are acceptable - and those that are not.
IMHO: talk to a good lawyer, just in case.
How about talk to his wife - and either relieve or confirm his fears?
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So she was spending nights, sleeping in your home, drinking, etc...
Yepper, we're not big drinkers though. If etc includes helping keep the house clean, washing, helping with my young son then yepper to that too.
Wasn't even my idea.
Guess I'm doomed too?
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What would your husband say if you invited over a few male friends to stay over when he is on a trip?
i always try on the other person's shoes. I know that I will not be happy if my husband will invite women to our house. In fact - it could possibly be a deal breaker. Even though I know that he has female friends, and I am ok with that, as long as single female friends of my husband do not come to our house without male companions. :D However, my husband's male friends are staying over in our place quite often. With the same logic I do not invite male friends to our house, but inviting my female friends is ok both for me and my husband. Frankly speaking - I have made female friends just recently - for the sole purpose of being able to invite my friends to my home. Before that - for over a decade I always had only male friends. And they always are strictly friends - no sexual ideas involved whatsoever.
P.S. just carefully thought over a list of female friends of my husband, and decided that some of them can come and stay in our house any time - me being at home or not. Those specific females are cool and fun people but not particularly hot, and as far as i know - are not sexually or matrimonially interested in my husband. So I can trust their intentions and would not object having them in our house. That being said - I know those females for quite a long time, so i was able to form my opinion about them, and about the nature of their friendship with my husband. ;) those good women do come to our house pretty often, as well as we visit theirs.
P.P.S. a female with male companion can stay in our place any time and i'll be happy about that :-)
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Yepper, we're not big drinkers though. If etc includes helping keep the house clean, washing, helping with my young son then yepper to that too.
Wasn't even my idea.
Guess I'm doomed too?
No, because your secretary became in effect your maid/nanny. However, unless you and your wife are saints, I really doubt your wife would feel comfortable with you inviting your secretary over to socialize with you while she is away :rolleyes2:
The simple fact of the matter is that it is always best to avoid temptation and IMHO the appearance of impropriety. The more you blur the lines, the greater the odds that inappropriate lines will be crossed.
This is my metaphor. At the moment, I am losing weight. Have lost 15 kilograms so far in the past month. It has required a lot of will-power. However, I have also made sure to get rid of as many temptations as possible. If I had had big bowls of chips, chocolate and other such food lying around the house all day, I would likely have gained weight instead of losing it :evil:
The same is true for married life: the greater the opportunities that you have to easily succumb to temptation, the greater the odds that it will happen. So, yes, if you continually invite secretaries to spend time with you while your wife is away, and drink good Italian wine with them (even if you profess to not drinking much), then I would wager that eventually you will cheat on your wife. Maybe not this month, or this year, but eventually the odds are that it will happen. There is a reason why so many people get divorced and infidelity is pretty high up on the reasons why they do.
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The conversation was innocent. Are we talking of this chat or going out for parties?
I don't think anybody would love it. Me neither.
The chat led to the party. Can't have a party without invitation. The wife went to another State for this party. She was so drunk she wasn't aware of the time and miss her bus ride home. It's a wonder how'd she kept her legs closed with her lack of awareness. Or maybe she was aware of the time to get on the bus but didn't care about coming home on time. I can accept that she doesn't care about her husband but what about her baby?
Thanks for admitting you wouldn't like it. Most people can't ignore what happened and keep a smiley face on in a situation like this.
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mies, Aloe, Doll, etc...
Lost in all of these assumptions, I would like to ask you ladies the following.
Based on the available information given by the OP, it seems as though his wife had very little chance to better acclimate herself to her new world, new life, and new experiences in a new country before becoming a mother. It would be safe to say then, there were other relatively more important things she needed to attend to despite herself during her first year here.
Is longing for a temporary refuge too much to expect from someone like her ~ all things considered?
Before I got married, probably more than half of my friends were females. A few of them got married and eventually had their children. I remember there will be a time when their hubbies would offer to take care of their kid/s so they can go and enjoy time doing what they feel like doing. Is this true for immigrating FSUW's as well?
Being in a new country, void of your usual support company you normally have at home, what is your next logical longing?
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The simple fact of the matter is that it is always best to avoid temptation and IMHO the appearance of impropriety. The more you blur the lines, the greater the odds that inappropriate lines will be crossed.
Maybe I understand you now... You are saying that given enough "temptation" everyone will eventually succumb. But here's something for you to think about; not everyone will. I know I won't and I never have. I know others, both men and women that haven't too. So this is where we differ; you assume that everyone will cheat and I assume that at least some won't.
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So this is where we differ; you assume that everyone will cheat and I assume that at least some won't.
Yes, some men and women may be saints, but the rest of us are mere mortals :rolleyes2: Even with the saints, the continued appearance of impropriety will take its toll in one way or another (notably gossip).
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Maybe I understand you now... You are saying that given enough "temptation" everyone will eventually succumb.
SJ, read him again. He wrote, "the greater the odds...." Never wrote "everyone."
Some folks will never succumb, like you and me. Still, our wives, fully knowing and believing that, probably
wouldn't be too thrilled about us coming home drunk on the arm of another dyevushka - am I right? The
actual "cheating" isn't going to happen - but are we serving our marriages well by coloring our routine with
a heavy shade of doubt?
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Well GOB why wait? Suggest the OP file a divorce NOW.....
Better yet GOB suggests we go to the barn and get out the old trusty "A" branding iron (scarlet letter) and start up the fire! :evil:
You see, back in the GoodOl' Day's, a man could "identify" an adulteress rather easily. ;)
It is a little more difficult today.
Seriously though, I had a friend several years ago who was deployed overseas.
He came back after his first tour from Iraq, to his "loving" wife and family.
His dear, sweet (now ex) wife wound up giving him an incurable disease that he still has today (herpes) and will probably have for the rest of his life.
And that is NO joke, my RWD friends.
OP....If nothing more but for the sake of your child, I would suggest that you be VERY careful with your wife.
All joking aside, you may be treading in some very deep water here.
GOB
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I know I won't and I never have.
I believe you SJ but load you up with some mentally impairing alcohol and drugs and you will be a different person.
It's not about being controlling or jealous of the wife's friends, it's about protecting your family and if any family member, wife or kids, puts themself in a vulnerable position, you, as the man of the house, need to prevent that from ever happening again.
Why couldn't the wife ask her husband to come along, meet the friends and they could hire a babysitter? The OP is probably worried because he was never asked to meet the friends and seeing her male friends take her home drunk doesn't give him comfort she's socializing with the finest people in town.
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No, because your secretary became in effect your maid/nanny. However, unless you and your wife are saints, I really doubt your wife would feel comfortable with you inviting your secretary over to socialize with you while she is away :rolleyes2:
The simple fact of the matter is that it is always best to avoid temptation and IMHO the appearance of impropriety. The more you blur the lines, the greater the odds that inappropriate lines will be crossed.
This is my metaphor. At the moment, I am losing weight. Have lost 15 kilograms so far in the past month. It has required a lot of will-power. However, I have also made sure to get rid of as many temptations as possible. If I had had big bowls of chips, chocolate and other such food lying around the house all day, I would likely have gained weight instead of losing it :evil:
The same is true for married life: the greater the opportunities that you have to easily succumb to temptation, the greater the odds that it will happen. So, yes, if you continually invite secretaries to spend time with you while your wife is away, and drink good Italian wine with them (even if you profess to not drinking much), then I would wager that eventually you will cheat on your wife. Maybe not this month, or this year, but eventually the odds are that it will happen. There is a reason why so many people get divorced and infidelity is pretty high up on the reasons why they do.
Misha,
I work at home so there is no inviting. We often eat lunch together, or if it's a busy day early evening.
We do though exercise choice and choose not to go in that direction even if it might seem appealing.
I serve this experience not to prove or disprove any of what's happening to the OP, but simply an example that from the outside things may be much different than in the minds of the observer (sometimes very dirty little places). IMHO this board is often fettered with contempt prior to investigation, especially when it comes to anything related to sex. Maybe my impression is due to geographic distribution of posting members.. maybe call it moral borders.
Again grey, undefined area.. If really want to screw around I will find a way regardless if in-house, overnight or multitude of other opportune places. Boris Becker found a closet at a restaurant for half hour and look what it got him.
It's not about temptation.. alcoholics drink because they can't stop, workaholics because they can't stop, add any number of addictions (yes food is one also) to the list. All because they have difficulty making a correct choice. Temptation is a symptom of imbalance or deeper issues and not the cause.
I enjoy sex, but am not hooked on it. My power of choice exceeds that of temptation, resulting in nothing to avoid, thereby opening doors instead of closing them. Avoid appearance of impropriety? I and my wife really don't care what others may think.. let them play around with dirty thoughts turning at night, their problem not ours.
When I or my wife leave for trips, she'll just tell me 'be a good boy' and I respond 'I will' and nothing more needs to be said or thought.
'Freedom of choice' often works better than prohibition.
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Wheres Sculpto??
Im waiting to see the ultra liberal view....
Probably off "fire dancing/twirling". :rolleyes2:
But it's OK, we have GQ standing in for Sculpto today. :D
GOB
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Yes, some men and women may be saints, but the rest of us are mere mortals :rolleyes2: Even with the saints, the continued appearance of impropriety will take its toll in one way or another (notably gossip).
It has nothing to do with being a saint, it's about making a choice and sticking with it. In my world it's not a difficult thing to do but maybe in yours, you are less committed? How do you say it? ah yes, ":evil:"
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I work at home so there is no inviting. We often eat lunch together, or if it's a busy day early evening.
My mom is married to my step father and my real father routinely comes over to visit and talk with both my mom and my step father. My step father and my father are friends and not jealous or suspicious of each other.
hiiii98 is not friends with the wife's male friends and the longer she refuses to introduce them, the more he'll get suspicious. The wife is failing to be open about her friendships and earning her husband's trust. She has more trust issues than her husband.
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SJ, read him again. He wrote, "the greater the odds...." Never wrote "everyone."
Some folks will never succumb, like you and me. Still, our wives, fully knowing and believing that, probably
wouldn't be too thrilled about us coming home drunk on the arm of another dyevushka - am I right? The
actual "cheating" isn't going to happen - but are we serving our marriages well by coloring our routine with
a heavy shade of doubt?
Actually I really think he believes everyone would given enough time and temptation.
And yes, you're right, I'm sure my wife would be really pissed if I came home drunk and in the arms of some woman (not that I ever drink enough to get drunk) but we're talking about the OP's wife and she didn't come home in anyone's arms.
I've said it several times that this woman didn't do her marriage any favours but there's an assumption by most that she's cheated and there's absolutely no evidence of that. Just a bunch of guys ignoring native speakers and interpreting what they want into a one-sided out of context broken conversation and extrapolating all sorts of things into a party she went to.
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Why couldn't the wife ask her husband to come along, meet the friends and they could hire a babysitter? The OP is probably worried because he was never asked to meet the friends and seeing her male friends take her home drunk doesn't give him comfort she's socializing with the finest people in town.
To answer your question, the OP wrote this recently:
I was ok with her leaving over the weekend because i take alot of trips aroudnd the country for business and since she cannot legally travel on a airplane yet i felt bad for her being home and wanted her to have fun. Plus honestly its overbearing sometimes being around her 24/7 and was looking for some down time myself.
This entire thread has become very confusing. There is little agreement over the precise meaning of his wife's chat with her friend. His original worry was that she was cheating on him but that has become a full-blown debate on whether it's OK for one's wife to go out with friends or whether it's OK to have male friends and if so is it OK for her to get drunk w/them...? There's some really good stuff in this thread but there are so many tangents it will likely sink to the bottom of the lake in a few days when this thread is exhausted.
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......but we're talking about the OP's wife and she didn't come home in anyone's arms.
Your right SJ, Vaughn stands corrected.
Vaughn.....The "sleazy" RM dumped the OP's wife off Sunday night, in the front yard of their place drunk and then hauled ass! :evil:
GOB
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Before I got married, probably more than half of my friends were females. A few of them got married and eventually had their children. I remember there will be a time when their hubbies would offer to take care of their kid/s so they can go and enjoy time doing what they feel like doing. Is this true for immigrating FSUW's as well?
It is
Being in a new country, void of your usual support company you normally have at home, what is your next logical longing?
Being able to get away from home- shopping, working, meeting people, going back to Russia to see my family. Also, having my husband home but not on trips.
A car, money, free time
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Quite a different situation - no, BC? You and your wife are secure in one another. Or have
you and the secretary tested the waters by arriving home late on a weekend drunk together?
Traveled across state (province) lines by vehicle after a missed bus? Do you message your
secretary "Come over - the wife's going out somewhere - I'll be alone" ? Your relationship is
one of profession, not nearly like the recreational one about which this thread was authored.
BC - I see your point clearly. Others, esp the OP, may not.
If by secure, you mean we rather blindly trust each other then yes. In the end it's necessary for our relationship. We have much better things to do and larger challenges to face than to cloud our marriage with doubt and jealousy (which may be another factor the OP should consider, whether his problem or her derivatives).
We have had plenty of off work good, sometimes wild times, after all she was a friend of ours long before the work opportunity opened up. I won't delve more because this thread is not about me.
Yes Vaughn, for some thinking hurts.
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To answer your question, the OP wrote this recently:
This entire thread has become very confusing. There is little agreement over the precise meaning of his wife's chat with her friend. His original worry was that she was cheating on him but that has become a full-blown debate on whether it's OK for one's wife to go out with friends or whether it's OK to have male friends and if so is it OK for her to get drunk w/them...? There's some really good stuff in this thread but there are so many tangents it will likely sink to the bottom of the lake in a few days when this thread is exhausted.
Thats probably where it belongs. It's gone in so many different directions I'm already disagreeing with a post I haven't written yet :o
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Thats probably where it belongs. It's gone in so many different directions I'm already disagreeing with a post I haven't written yet :o
Touche, FP :)
There are some good things for those new to the pursuit to consider, here. For instance, we have a friend, an FSU women who is married to an American guy for 5 years and wants out. She can't stand being around him, so much so that we sometimes have to tell her to leave when she visits on weeknights because she doesn't want to go home to him.
Now, if her husband came to RWD with suspicions, he'd be lectured about the importance of TRUST in a relationship. Others would disagree and tell him to give her a curfew or forbid her from staying out late without him. Still others would disagree and say they needed to have a long talk and resolve their issues together.
FWIW, all three approaches - regardless of how far apart they are as recommended solutions to saving his marriage - would fail spectacularly because the marriage is already over.
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FWIW, all three approaches - regardless of how far apart they are as recommended solutions to saving his marriage - would fail spectacularly because the marriage is already over.
Good point.
Another might be that a 'real' relationship never formed in the first place, not all that unusual IMHO with this speed marriage thing.
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I've said it several times that this woman didn't do her marriage any favours but there's an assumption by most that she's cheated and there's absolutely no evidence of that.
Evidence?!? On RWD? Blasphemy! There's no use for evidence here. Conclusions are already made before the OP even get to click POST the first time. The funny thing is all kinds of ending gets thrown in too. Anecdotes, confessionals, people he knows who knew someone that knew someone - and therefore it must be. LOL.
There should be an addendum as the 11th commandment.
Save yourself time and money because she will undoubtedly cheat on you. It's just a matter of time. Ask the members, they know!
Doll-
I'm sure from a man's POV, that point is easily overlooked. Not so for women however. Thanks for the input.
The OP's wife barely had time to adjust to her new life before getting pregnant (probabaly why she never had the time to learn how to drive). Too bad thinking she needed a break.
LOL.
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I'm sure from a man's POV, that point is easily overlooked.
It is often overlooked by AM though it is not hard to understand- this woman is young, she needs a company, some free time and being able to drive. She is trapped in her house with a baby. This is not the reason for cheating but you and me are not talking of it.
Feels like the OP is much older than his wife (I can be wrong), works a lot while she has to stay in the house all by herself.
And yes- she seems to love her husband because there was something about her being mad at her mom who doesn't think too good about this marriage.
Again- I don't think she is cheating.
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FWIW, all three approaches - regardless of how far apart they are as recommended solutions to saving his marriage - would fail spectacularly because the marriage is already over.
I can see that. It is likely the case here as well or as BC said if it was ever a real marriage in the first place. There has been much speculation from many directions and all of them could be right or wrong as there wasn't enough info to make any clear judgement.
From the opening post I read it as without doubt the marriage was over. He doesn't trust her and she obviously has no respect for him as a husband or a man. From some of the other view points here I was taken a bit aback as that didn't seem to matter.
I guess I was raised different than most who posted on this thread. My wife doing such an act is indication to me that the marriage is over. I have no problems with friends and spending time away from each other or her having men friends. I am plenty comfortable and trusting enough. The OP's wife in my mind, broke most every covenant of a marriage even if she didn't have intercourse. But thats just me :D
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The OP's wife in my mind, broke most every covenant of a marriage even if she didn't have intercourse. But thats just me :D
Oh the luxury of youth.. those feelings of immortality and infallibility.. we've all been there and probably done enough to make us sometimes shake our heads at those reckless acts today.. and understand why their insurance rates are so high.
You live, you learn.. they will too.
Have no idea about her age, but my gut tells me somewhere between 18 and 25 or so.
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Feels like the OP is much older than his wife (I can be wrong), works a lot while she has to stay in the house all by herself.
I don't know about everbody else, BUT...It doesn't sound like she is"alone" to me? :rolleyes2:
"Husband's gone....the coast is clear Dima". :evil:
GOB
BTW......What about her baby?....I guess he/she is a "problem" for her also?
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there was nothing about a hottub in the monologue
The word 'hot tub' is in the chat, right after the girl invites her friends over while her husband is gone.
I too feel it more convenient to invite my female friends to stay over when my husband is on trips.
It's clear enough that she's inviting male friends. Why would she even type a smiley after saying that her husband will be out of town? Sorry, what's in this chat doesn't fit with the innocent idea of her friends keeping her company while the husband is away.
While I don't think there is enough information in this thread, I don't understand at all the excuses being made for the information that we do have.
Are these men childhood friends or men she met online? Was this a temporary refuge, or is it a pattern of behavior? Is she trapped at home with a baby, or did she take the bus this weekend because her car is getting fixed? Did this woman have her child upon coming to the US and not have time to adjust, or has she been living here for years already? We don't know!
In the end what matters is whether this situation is acceptable to the original poster. Obviously it's not and there is enough lack of trust that he dug up his wife's private chat and posted it on message board. He also indicated that she's keeping on eye on what he's up to, which means either she doesn't trust him or she has something to hide and doesn't want him to find out. Again, the whole situation doesn't sound good to me.
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It's not about temptation.. alcoholics drink because they can't stop, workaholics because they can't stop, add any number of addictions (yes food is one also) to the list. All because they have difficulty making a correct choice. Temptation is a symptom of imbalance or deeper issues and not the cause.
Try to quit smoking if your spouse smokes and coworkers (never smoked, but this is based on smokers that I know). It will be hard. Likewise, I would not recommend that a recovering alcoholic get a job as a bartender. Why put yourself in a situation whereby in a moment of weakness you will be able to easily get your "fix." If you make it a bit harder, then you will have a bit more time to think things through and stop yourself before you act upon impulses.
My power of choice exceeds that of temptation, resulting in nothing to avoid, thereby opening doors instead of closing them.
If that is what you believe, I won't argue with you. I believe, however, that we all have our moments of weakness, and they may come at unexpected moments.
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Guys, you're acting like kids though the OP is a real person with his fears.
Stop wring this nonsense that BC called the luxury of youth.
Come on!
Watch what you are writing!
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The word 'hot tub' is in the chat, right after the girl invites her friends over while her husband is gone.
Do you speak Russian? You don't.
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And, FWIW, I know a number of women that have totally platonic men friends; I know that is difficult for some people to grasp, but it is possible. Yes, really, it is.
Perhaps it's hard to grasp because so many of us have seen "Platonic relationships" that start platonic and then months later wind up being something completely inappropriate?
I don't know about anybody else, But....I sure feel sorry for that baby.
He/She grows up knowing Mom goes out all night with men, comes home drunk days later and invites "Uncle Sergei" over to the house for a little "fun time " while Dad's away at work.
Sounds like an outstanding environment for raising the next dysfunctional child in the GoodOl' USA.
BTW....As an added bonus, he/she will catch it from friends and enemies at school all day long...."My Mom says your Mom is a drunk and a whore"........nice.
My ex was a third generation dysfunctional child. Her mother and grandmother both engaged in heavy partying every night or so, in a lifestyle void of moral fiber. End result? I can only sigh as I look at her daughter, the 4th generation, and know she will follow in her mother's footsteps. The only end is sadly death; gen 1 died at 49, gen 2 died at 47. Alas, gen 3 has not learned from their mistakes and I doubt her behavior will minimize her risk of becoming another statistic. I doubt gen 4 will learn, although if something horrific enough happened to gen 3, perhaps gen 4 will get it through her own mind she does not want to be like that.
that reminds me, some women say that dancing in the ways you describe (rubbing up against someone) is a way for them to prevent cheating. Im not sure its good, but its definitely better than going and actually cheating. They will dance, but not cheat
With the experience I now have, I consider anything that increases feelings to be a form of cheating. And grinding against another person has the distinct function of increasing each other's desire for one another, even if the words spoken are excuses or ignorance of lying to one's self.
I guess what you and Billy don't understand is that if your wife is going to cheat, she will cheat regardless of whether she is out partying all night or not. Stopping her from going out with friends will more than likely drive her away and weaken a marriage. Remember, trust is everything and once that is lost, you may as well give up.
If she is already cheating in concious, it is no longer a matter of trust. She's already gone by this point. It is a sad state of affairs.
Hope I never experience this type of love from a women.
I have. It sucks. Really, really, Really sucks.
Primarily because when my husband is at home - i rather spend time with him and don't have other people intrude into our home life, but once he's away - I may feel lonely and like to have a company at home. An extra pro is that when my husband is not at home - my friends will not be a nuisance for him - taking his time, or using couch space. I feel it is a win-win situation.
Here's my take: My friends are your friends and your friends are my friends. If you want to have company over, then there is no reason you can't have them over even when I am home. In fact, I would enjoy having them over just as much as you would. If your friends can't be my friends too, then maybe those people should not be a part of OUR life. Marriage is not single life - it's a combined commitment. Private friends on the sides does not enrich the relationship - it take energy away.
[Ask how I know!!! Ok, I'll say it! The last 6 months my ex has been having long deep talks with a friend of hers because she found him so easy to talk to, yet she was in no way interested in him. I told her he would want to get too close - and six months later true to my word he starts trying to be too close. I think it made her scared and sad. No matter though, the damage to our relationship was already done.]
It's not about temptation.. alcoholics drink because they can't stop, workaholics because they can't stop, add any number of addictions (yes food is one also) to the list. All because they have difficulty making a correct choice. Temptation is a symptom of imbalance or deeper issues and not the cause.
That describes my ex to a letter. Workaholic, alcholism [and jsut started, so very evry sad], everything to excess. The real down and dirty is that she was unwilling to work on herself, and as a result she is now in the deepend devouring sharks. Yes, she is the maneater in the pool, loooook out!!
Quote from: Misha on Today at 03:46:45 PM
Yes, some men and women may be saints, but the rest of us are mere mortals Even with the saints, the continued appearance of impropriety will take its toll in one way or another (notably gossip).
It has nothing to do with being a saint, it's about making a choice and sticking with it. In my world it's not a difficult thing to do but maybe in yours, you are less committed? How do you say it? ah yes,
SJ, the fact of the matter is the majority of the population around us is easily compromised. The greatest proof I can offer you is their insistance of a religion under which they are a child and the Lord is their master. This religion makes people weak because they never move to the point where they develop their own internal moral values - the values are from an external voice. And when they are outside the influence of that external voice, vice and excess become happy friends. I watched this unfold with my ex. So very sad.
"Commitment" is a very foriegn word in our world today. Promises are so quicly broken I wonder why they are ever made. And resolutions never seem to last. A gerater number of people are becoming increasingly unable to make a decision and stick to it - they make one, then wallow back and go with the other road, and then wallow back all over agian to go back to the first choice. It's like addiction, and it's sick. Perhpas our society has had something to do with the destruction of our underpinnings to the point we no longer have a strong moral base. It's lie we are simply Not teaching our children ANYTHING about what a realtionship is, how to be in one, or what it is supposed to mean when you are with another person. Instead we have become inundated with the playboy channel Girls gone Wild: Coed College Addiciton" and put that on a pedastal as if that is the awesome way to live life. Perhaps that's why we reach out to the east for a mate - we want someone who has moral fiber, and here this is a place with many voids of moral fiber. It's unfortunate, but it seems bringing a person here is like bringing a none smoker into a smoking cirlce. In time, they too will pick up the pipe...
There are some saints left. We're just becoming fewer and further between. You have jsut convinced me to do one thing: when I get stable again, I am going ot move somewhere far away from city influence. I grew up country, and it made me the strong moral person that I am - even though I do not have a religion, I find I often have a stronger moral compass than those enthralled in religions. My home is only safe if the vilalge around it is also safe, so that measn i must put my self itn the safest possible place where my family can grow and thrive together.
Alas, now where to find a girl who has a moral compass similar to mine!!
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Do you speak Russian? You don't.
I don't? How do you know this?
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Conjecture, conjecture, so much conjecture. And a healthy infusion of one's own personal moralities.....
Conjecture: Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
He came here asking if we think she cheated on him. There is no "proof" in the chats that she did. There is also no proof that she didn't gangbang every guy that showed up to the party and gave the guy who drove her home road-head all the way.
Does everyone miss this? Along with not knowing what she did we also don't know what she didn't do.
My personal belief is that if their marraige continues on the tack they are doomed.
Comparing apples to oranges doesn't work. Your personal situation is different from the OP's. Some people are saying that the situation is OK because their spouce does this too. From what I've read the situations aren't the same. Saying his situation is OK because yours is is simply bogus. You are not him and he is not OK with it.
Yes, they need to talk.
Yes, she is probably missing her home and familiar environment.
Maybe he's not meeting her needs.
Maybe he's a control freak.
Maybe he beats her.
Maybe he screws around.
Maybe, maybe, maybe...
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It has nothing to do with being a saint, it's about making a choice and sticking with it. In my world it's not a difficult thing to do but maybe in yours, you are less committed? How do you say it? ah yes, ":evil:"
Less committed? I will be the first to admit that I am not perfect and that I am not a saint. I work to become a better person, recognizing that I am weak. I will also be the first to say that commitment is a lifelong process, that requires constant time and energy. The commitment is not solely physical, but also emotional, and mental/psychological. Commitment must never be taken for granted IMHO, and must never be taken as a given. A loveless marriage where the two are strangers is also a marriage failing in terms of commitment from my point of view.
Besides, why would I want to put my wife through grief? Do you think she would like it, if there was gossip and friends told her that I was coming back in the middle of the night with women? She would not be thrilled. So, this would be reason enough for me to avoid putting myself in a position where I would create unsavory gossip that would hurt my wife.
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<super-sized snip> Alas, now where to find a girl who has a moral compass similar to mine!!
Have you tried this (http://womenbehindbars.com/)?
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Have you tried this (http://womenbehindbars.com/)?
:ROFL:
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And that wasn't funny, that was freaky and disgusting. :wallbash:
GQBlues, I am disappointed, and your smile there isn't helping anymore. :( :P
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I don't? How do you know this?
Because in this chat there is hardly any connection between somebody coming over and hot tub
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Doll, how would you translate this:
19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna
19:29:34 chto o
19:30:06 hot tub(e)
And let me make it clearer:
19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna
---> message from Dima missing
19:29:34 chto o
---> message from Dima missing
19:30:06 hot tub(e)
You really don't see ANY connection between her inviting Dima and friends over and the mention of 'hot tub' two lines down?
Do you think that the words 'hot tub' translate to anything else besides 'hot tub'?
You understand that this is only one side of the conversation, right? This is only what she typed, none of what Dima typed.
By the way, I do speak some Russian. Not well enough to read Voina I Mir, but enough to understand most of a Runglish chat like the one presented here. Regardless, my friend visiting from Moscow read this post with me. When I asked her if she thinks this girl is cheating, she gave me this look of "What are you, an idiot? Of course!"
Then again, she's a party girl in her 20s and you're a Russian woman in her 40s or so living in the US, so I should defer to your opinion of this conversation. :rolleyes2:
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By the way, my personal opinion about this chat conversation is inconclusive.
I think this woman is definitely putting herself in a position to cheat. I have no doubt that Russian drinking buddies that she spends the night with are hitting on her, unless they're gay or from another planet.
Whether she's cheated or not, none of us knowns.
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GQBlues, I am disappointed, and your smile there isn't helping anymore. :( :P
Sorry Anastassia, the thread was getting too hot and heavy and thought to liven things up a bit. Besides, Ms. Tina is supposed to be a psychic. She can read past, present, and future. Thought maybe she can help Lonewing with his query. Apparently she can fix computers too.
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When I asked her if she thinks this girl is cheating, she gave me this look of "What are you, an idiot? Of course!"
:ROFL: Same reaction my wife had...
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My Sveta who is a 'red star' student with a degree in English feels that this lady is doing nothing more than chit chatting with a guy(s), like she would with girl friends. She feels that what she is writing is innocent..... stupid chatting.
If Sveta hadn't known that your wife was writing to a guy, she would have believed that she was writing to a Girlfriend.
Sveta feels that your wife is more into Alcohol than into Men :o
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Sorry Anastassia, the thread was getting too hot and heavy and thought to liven things up a bit. Besides, Ms. Tina is supposed to be a psychic. She can read past, present, and future. Thought maybe she can help Lonewing with his query. Apparently she can fix computers too.
Real cute. Thanks.
I have accepted that my search is going to be long and hard and I may never find what I seek. I do have enough other pursuits in my life that I could skip the whole family thing if I had too. And besides the points, I really am still a baby compared to some of you. So there's lots of time.
Alas, it is difficult to find people of high personal standards when the society we live in promotes such low standards as an acceptable norm.
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There is only one conclusion: The OP did not find the answer to his question in the 17 pages of this thread.
It does not look good for hiii98, so I recommend that he and his wife consult with a family counselor. There is a baby involved, so this is very serious.
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Doll, how would you translate this:
19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna
19:29:34 chto o
19:30:06 hot tub(e)
And let me make it clearer:
19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna
---> message from Dima missing
19:29:34 chto o
---> message from Dima missing
19:30:06 hot tub(e)
You really don't see ANY connection between her inviting Dima and friends over and the mention of 'hot tub' two lines down?
Jooky, the responses from Dima are missing, I can give you thousands of possible remarks that he COULD give, I mean thousands versions.
Speaking the language is one thing, reading comprehension is another.
ALL THE NATIVE SPEAKERS here say there was not anything dirty in this chat. Hot tub could occur in any context.
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Doll, you're clearly making a fool's argument for the sake of arguing and defending a woman's bad behavior simply because she's Russian, but I'll play along.
1. My original response was to Meis who claims that the words 'hot tub' don't even appear in this chat. They do, though it doesn't really matter. The chat posted here is not the root of this man's problems. His problem is the mutual lack of trust and respect he and his wife are showing for each other and their marriage.
2. Hot tub does not occur here in any context. It occurs in the context of a conversation, immediately following an invitation to come over.
3. Comprehension of the conversation and situation would allow you to fill in the blanks, not leave it open to a thousand possibilities. If you think there are a thousand possibilities for this one phrase, then it's impossible for you to judge whether this conversation is damning or benign. It could mean anything to you.
4. I challenge you to give me 10 possibilities for the appearance of hot tub in the context of this conversation. Better yet, let's hear your most plausible explanation of why 'hot tub' appears here.
Mine is: it appears here because she wants to go hot tubbing with Dima and other friends.
5. I didn't say this conversation was dirty or that it implies that she's cheating with this guy Dima. Why would it? She didn't spend the night with Dima. She spent the night with Dima's friend.
All it shows to me is that this girl is hanging out with an typical young party crowd and inviting guys over to party with her while her husband is around. You seriously disagree with that?
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5. I didn't say this conversation was dirty or that it implies that she's cheating with this guy Dima. Why would it? She didn't spend the night with Dima. She spent the night with Dima's friend.
that is not true. all she says is she left her newly bought dress (still packed in a bag apparently) at Martinov's house; That does NOT mean she spent the night with Martinov. First of all , Martinov is a last name. You do not call your lovers by their last name, you can call a friend by last name in case he has a common first name, but definitely not a lover. Second of all, there could be a party at martinovs house, this does NOT mean he was present, he could have given the keys to some other friends to use his place. And you cannot say how many people were there. Maybe she was there alone, to feed his cat while he is on vacation, and forgot her bag with a dress there. There is dozens of ways this could happen
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If there was cheating involved and she had a lover, why was there no direct reference to sex or inuendo to the effect at least?
Reference to husband leaving town and hottub, appears more as an invite to come over with friends to get drunk with her while he's away :-[
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Aloe, I assume she spent the night at Dima's friend's house because:
1. Dima is obviously one of her party friends who went out with as they are discussing a mutual friend who passed out in the car.
2. She came home at 10AM in the morning. Nightclubs close at 4AM. She must have slept somewhere, right? Or maybe she spent those hours in church? What do you think is most likely?
Maybe she was there alone, to feed his cat while he is on vacation, and forgot her bag with a dress there.
On the same night that she stayed out partying with her friends?
Maybe she was abducted by aliens and this is why she was out all night. Why are you making excuses for this woman? Throwing out random unlikely excuses for his wife's behavior does not help the original poster here.
Given what's been presented here my most plausible explanation is that this woman spent the night at Dima's friend's home. You say absolutely, this is not true. So, since you KNOW, tell us, where did she spend the night?
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Reference to husband leaving town and hottub, appears more as an invite to come over with friends to get drunk with her
That's exactly what I just posted above. If your wife agrees with this, then at least one of the native speakers besides my visiting friend agree with what I think of this conversation. ;)
PS: It's not like this was some conversation designed to expose how she is cheating and with whom. It's just a random conversation with a friend. Why would there be talk of sex? What would she say "Oh, by the way, I banged your friend last night"?
Again, all it show is that this woman is engaged in typical party time behavior with a bunch of young dudes. If she's cheating or not, who knows? What I do know is that young guys that like to party also like to have sex, and the partying all night scenario does provide the temptation and potential for cheating. People here seriously disagree with that?
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Given what's been presented here my most plausible explanation is that this woman spent the night at Dima's friend's home. You say absolutely, this is not true. So, since you KNOW, tell us, where did she spend the night?
thats not what you said 2 posts above. here is what you said:
She spent the night with Dima's friend.
you cant know WHO she was with in that house, that was my point
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and who is to say she didnt feed his cat in the evening, left her dress there, then proceeded to party elsewhere? You cant know that
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.....left her dress there, then proceeded to party elsewhere.....
I have a question...If she left her"dress" at some guys house, what the hell did she wear to go "partying" elsewhere? ....bra and panties....bikini bathing suit...? :evil:
GOB
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Aloe, me saying that she spent the night with Dima's friend doesn't mean that she slept with him or even shared a bed with him. It simply means she spent the night at his house. If you pay attention to my posts I've repeated several times that nobody here knows whether this woman is cheating or not.
Again, I don't know if she fed someone's cat or what else she did that evening. What we do know is that she was somewhere between 4AM and 10AM.
I'm trying to give a reasonable explanation for the events in this chat. I think that's what the original poster was looking for.
I think it's reasonable that she would buy and wear a new dress to go out to the clubs. Don't you?
I think it's reasonable that she would sleep somewhere between the time clubs close and the time she arrived home? Don't you? It makes sense to me that she would spend the night with one of the guys she was partying with. Again, this doesn't mean they had sex.
I think it's reasonable that she wouldn't wear her new dress on the bus, that she would change into it for clubbing, change out of it to go to sleep, wake up, put on whatever she wore on the bus and accidently leave her dress where she spent the night.
It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to put these things together.
Why create all these lame scenarios and excuses? Again, where do you think she spent the night?
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i dont know and cant know where she spent the night, and neither can you, so all your assumptions are worthless. Im trying to make a point that there is no way for us to know anything out of that info, so you should stop making statements where she was and what she did. It doesnt matter what makes sense to you or to me or anyone else, the only thing that matters is what she really did, which we do not know
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I disagree. Reasonable assumptions are not worthless, either in this situation or in most situations in life. If you can't connect the dots in this conversation it simply shows your lack of comprehension.
Regardless, you're wrong in saying there is no way for us to know anything from the info given here.
For example: We do know that this woman invited her friends over for when her husband is away, and she typed this with a smiley. Some posters here find that alone reprehensible.
It's up to the poster to read what's been translated here and fit it in with whatever else is going on between him and his wife.
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Wheres Sculpto??
I think Sculpto and Kuna got sent to the woodshed by "Herr" Dan. :evil:
I've been there a "few" times myself. :rolleyes2:
GOB
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I disagree. Reasonable assumptions are not worthless, either in this situation or in most situations in life. If you can't connect the dots in this conversation it simply shows your lack of comprehension.
Regardless, you're wrong in saying there is no way for us to know anything from the info given here.
For example: We do know that this woman invited her friends over for when her husband is away, and she typed this with a smiley. Some posters here find that alone reprehensible.
It's up to the poster to read what's been translated here and fit it in with whatever else is going on between him and his wife.
it is UNREASONABLE to assume anything out of this conversation. it has nothing to do with comprehension, it has to do with the fact that things could have gone a million different ways and there is no way in hell to know what went on, so again, all assumtions are worthless
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it is UNREASONABLE to assume anything out of this conversation. it has nothing to do with comprehension, it has to do with the fact that things could have gone a million different ways and there is no way in hell to know what went on, so again, all assumptions are worthless
We (natives) are wasting our time here.
I agree with Aloe.
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it is very funny how you have accused 2 native speakers of lack of comprehension of their native language so far. Of course nobody here could compare with your ability to comprehend and speak russian, you are the god jooky, lets all bow to his superiority. Seriously.
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We (natives) are wasting our time here.
I agree with Aloe.
I agree with Jooky....so where does that leave us? :D
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Reference to husband leaving town and hottub, appears more as an invite to come over with friends to get drunk with her while he's away :-[
Yep. What else can someone living in Madison, Green Bay, anywhere Wisconsin offer their friends living in Chicago as an incentive to come and visit them....
One plausible explanation of the word hot tub:
Barely sober Dima with a perpetual hard-on: Hhhmmm...come over to your place? What's there to do?
Alleged whoring wife who happens to be Russian: "Hot Tub(e)"
Somewhere below is a 'smiley'. The damning evidence Exhibit #69.~ ' Let the salivating jury take note of the 'smiley', which makes the defendant guilty of being a whore beyond the shadow of doubt' ~
Then of course there's that waterpark she mentioned, Evidence #96, another offering. Little did she know, all she really had to offer sober Dima was two bottles of acetone.
She got on the bus to visit her friends living in Chicago. She went to buy a nice dress and they went out for the night. Probably went to dinner, then dancing and was having such a great time and she started drinking way too much. By 2 AM, she was too drunk and would be too dangerous to be on the bus by herself and go back home to It'sboringhere, Wisconsin.
She called 'very secured' hubby and to tell him and was told they'll be driving her home in the morning instead.
But the reality is ~ I'd take the OP's version over mine anyday. Until then, that's my take. In the meantime...I believe the OP indeed over-reacted....just like the old farts are doing here.
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it is very funny how you have accused 2 native speakers of lack of comprehension of their native language so far. Of course nobody here could compare with your ability to comprehend and speak russian, you are the god jooky, lets all bow to his superiority. Seriously.
More than two natives, Aloe :wallbash:
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You're crazy,GQBlues ! :D
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Aloe, again, I disagree. I haven't made any assumptions that weren't based on the conversation or the situation as related by the original poster.
If you truly feel it is unreasonable to assume anything outside of this conversation, why do you assume that this woman is not cheating? Why do you make assumptions about her being stuck in a small village and missing Russian friends? She didn't state these things in conversation one way or another. Those are assumptions based on your experience. I think they are valid and useful assumptions, but they are still your assumptions.
Maybe you should follow your own advice. I don't need to because I disagree with it. :D
Aloe, regarding your sarcasm, as I stated above, my friend from Moscow translated this chat log for me. Even without it I understood from the start that it was only one side of the conversation. You didn't. I took you a second look to figure that out. So, ok I'll accept the bows. :P
This 'native speakers' versus 'non-native speakers' is a load of horse sh*. Misha's wife and my friend are also native speakers. I didn't accuse any native speakers of lack of comprehending their native language. The content of this conversation is clear. Nobody here is arguing with the translation posted above. I accused you of lack of comprehension of this conversation and situation, not the language.
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IIRC we're only seeing half the conversation here...
Just made me think about something.. what she types we see but not the responses.. I'd be willing to bet the guy is using a keylogger.. records what she types but can't record replies. All chat programs I know of log both sides of the conversation. Many internet chatrooms that don't need a program installed also don't keep logs.
He didn't just 'stumble' across the chat innocently.
Lets say that at least my impression of the guy just went rapidly downhill. She hid nothing, had consent to take the trip, they got drunk, crashed, she missed the bus but found a couple of guys at the party that would drive her back home. The OP on the other hand is snooping around while she is gone sneaking to RWD at work to find out what his stinky pinky smells like.
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I agree with Aloe.
Doll, you agree with Aloe that assumptions are worthless? Then, why do you assume that this woman is trapped at home with her baby, not being able to drive? There was nothing in the conversation about that. In fact the conversation implies that she is at work (she mentions taking a smoke break while there are no customers).
Look, everyone is making assumptions here based on experience. It's the nature of the boards, and it makes sense to do so. It helps people!
I stated from the beginning that this conversation is inconclusive either way. I think we need much more information from the original poster to give him any kind of advice. Do you at least agree with that?
PS: BC, my first impression of the chat was that is was saved from a keylogger as well, because there are no names listed as with a normal chat history and there is just one side of the conversation. I just don't know enough about keyloggers to say for sure (thank God).
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If you truly feel it is unreasonable to assume anything outside of this conversation, why do you assume that this woman is not cheating? Why do you make assumptions about her being stuck in a small village and missing Russian friends? She didn't state these things in conversation one way or another. Those are assumptions based on your experience. I think they are valid and useful assumptions, but they are still your assumptions.
that wasnt an assumption, all im giving since the beginning of the topic is examples of what could be going on, to show that not everything is so simple
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i think its fake or not from skype, because when you copy paste from skype logs it looks like this:
[19-Aug-09 16:25:45] Name says: yea
So if he edited out the name, i dont think he would edit the times to look that way
if it was keylogger, does it mean she told herself to go to hell? The phrase was definitely addressed to a girl: "poshla ty na...".
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all im giving since the beginning of the topic is examples of what could be going on
Exactly the same as what I'm doing, so why are you arguing with me? :rolleyes2:
Here's all I posted when all of a sudden I'm accused of not comprehending Russian (and told that the words 'hot tub' don't appear in this conversation, by a 'native speaker' :rolleyes2:
Nothing direct about cheating, I agree. She's talking to one party guy about a friend who passed out in the car and another guy whose house she left her dress at, probably where she spent the night. She invites him over to hot tub while her husband is away. Wink wink. Typical party girl stuff. Doesn't sound good to me. Really, who knows? Half of the conversation is missing.
if it was keylogger, does it mean she told herself to go to hell?
If it was a keylogger it could easily mix her conversations with two different people.
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I believe the OP indeed overreacted....
It doesn't matter if we think the OP over reacted. At a minimum he reacted to his wife's activities and behavior in this one incident not to mention maybe more in the past. The wife is looking over his shoulder constantly now. This is not the behavior of an innocent woman. His marriage is in DANGER because he can't live with whatever she's doing whether innocent or guilty. It doesn't matter what the RW posters are saying there's a very good chance the wife did not commit adultery. What matter's is the OP needs to have a talk with his wife. She can change her behavior to give him peace of mind and strengthen the marriage or she can continue to live life the way she wants stressing out her husband and putting herself in a vulnerable position to pick up a disease and passing it along to her family or getting pregnant. I have no doubt the RM party boys friends or another guy at the club would take her to bed the moment she lets her guard down. There's always guys at the club looking for women to F.
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I have been reading the posts here and in my personal opinion I do not like what's going on with her wife behaviour.
The best recommendation I could give to our man Jooky is: trust your gut instinct and do not allow yourself to be played for a fool. I could be very wrong on this but there are many things (hot tube, many guys and only 1 married woman, everything did at the husbands back, etc) that are very disturbing.
There a lot of nasty and unscrupulous guys out there who will not respect a married woman, and will take her to bed if they can (especially if she's young and good looking), more even if the woman puts the ideal scenario and does not respect herself (hot tube only with male friends, drunk in a club, alone with many guys, leaving a forgotten dress, etc). This guy needs some peace in his mind and he cannot have it until his "wife" starts behaving in a non suspicious way.
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It doesn't matter if we think the OP over reacted.
Well it matters to me. You folks had already gathered a lynching mob solely based in your own insecurities. The only thing left to do really is get the OP to do actual hanging.
One of the problems I see in these relationship are men who seriously lack any social skills and comprehension and thus looking for a woman to marry living from another culture. They have this pervasive inability to relate with women for a sustained relationship. That's why they are so adverse to dating at home, even RWs already living here. There's an opportunity for local women to actually witness these men's social skills during the course of dating before taking the plunge. They socially do not fit. That is more true than otherwise.
The OP over-reacted. He needs to get over is own insecurities pronto or this woman is definitely going to agree with her Mom's opinion. He's destroying the relationship with his wife who would defend her marriage to him to her own mother.
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The OP over-reacted.
Yes, Yes, Sculpto GQ.
But what to do with the "drunken" wife/mother who stays out all night with other men? :rolleyes2:
AND.....Lets not forget she invites "strange" men to their home, with his baby there? :o
GOB
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Well it matters to me. You folks had already gathered a lynching mob solely based in your own insecurities. The only thing left to do really is get the OP to do actual hanging.
One of the problems I see in these relationship are men who seriously lack any social skills and comprehension and thus looking for a woman to marry living from another culture. They have this pervasive inability to relate with women for a sustained relationship. That's why they are so adverse to dating at home, even RWs already living here. There's an opportunity for local women to actually witness these men's social skills during the course of dating before taking the plunge. They socially do not fit. That is more true than otherwise.
The OP over-reacted. He needs to get over is own insecurities pronto or this woman is definitely going to agree with her Mom's opinion. He's destroying the relationship with his wife who would defend her marriage to him to her own mother.
GQ it would appear to me that you've had a serious overreaction to everyone's overreaction :o The OP's wife has pretty much been labeled a slut by most here thats true. It's based on a preponderance of the evidence. The only defense for her came from the same source as the accusation. Her husband, and, he agreed that she could go. We have pretty much zero on the OP for information other than he "may or may not" be a Muddy fan and using a keylogger. Doesn't strike me as a completely bad guy because he 1) took care of the child and 2) is worried about his marriage. Attempting to fit him in your description of the social leper really doesn't apply here does it?
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I'd be willing to bet the guy is using a keylogger.. records what she types but can't record replies. All chat programs I know of log both sides of the conversation. Many internet chatrooms that don't need a program installed also don't keep logs.
He didn't just 'stumble' across the chat innocently.
Lets say that at least my impression of the guy just went rapidly downhill. She hid nothing, had consent to take the trip, they got drunk, crashed, she missed the bus but found a couple of guys at the party that would drive her back home. The OP on the other hand is snooping around while she is gone sneaking to RWD at work to find out what his stinky pinky smells like.
A flash of brilliance after 17 pages. Thanks BC.
The OP never said it was Skype.
hii98 and his wife deserve each other. Don't blame just her or just him. They are both culpabale, assuming the worse scenario.
It would be simple if there were no children. Alas, they have a baby. What a potential mess.
Muddy, is this one of your key logging buddies? Or is it you under a different pseudonym?
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One of the problems I see in these relationship are men who seriously lack any social skills and comprehension and thus looking for a woman to marry living from another culture.
When it comes to marriage like these, there are TWO PEOPLE who married into a different culture. It's not the only man's fault. Why does it have to be a fault? there are many good things about other cultures.
I've spent over 3 years with my ex fiancee mostly apart. I never sweated that she may be going out with other men. That's why I stayed with her so long. I trusted her. Every other day I called, she was never in an environment where there are music playing in the background except if it was in her home. She never answered the phone drunk although she does drink beer in small quantities. I could go on and on about her behavior patterns but it's her who earned my trust over time.
I'm not talking about the OP getting his way. It's about protecting the family and family comes first. One night of infidelity willingly or unwillingly can hurt a lot of people. The OP can talk to his wife and get her into a family mode or he can resort back to his bad boy party mode where everyone is for themselves when he goes on those business trips as payback. As it stands now, the wife is happy when the husband is gone and the husband feels he didn't get a fair deal when he gave up his bad boy ways for the marriage life. He might have once went to bed with another guys wife. Now it hurts to know someone may be going to bed with his wife. Maybe deep down he knows how fast his wife can go to bed with a stranger at a club because it could be how they met.
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One of the problems I see in these relationship are men who seriously lack any social skills and comprehension and thus looking for a woman to marry living from another culture.
It is too bad that we don't have more Russian men posting on the forum. I sure would like to know how the average Russian husband would react under the exact same circumstances :evil: Something tells me he would not be greeting his wife with a kiss on the cheek and asking her how her date night out with the boys went.
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As it stands now, the wife is happy when the husband is gone and the husband feels he didn't get a fair deal when he gave up his bad boy ways for the marriage life. He might have once went to bed with another guys wife. Now it hurts to know someone may be going to bed with his wife. Maybe deep down he knows how fast his wife can go to bed with a stranger at a club because it could be how they met.
According to what little the OP has said about his situation, that feeling is mutual.
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Something tells me he would not be greeting his wife with a kiss on the cheek and asking her how her date night out with the boys went.
Hey Misha.
You left out the "drunken wife" part of the story.
Example: Something tells me he (RM) would not be greeting his drunken wife with a kiss on the cheek and asking her how her date night out with the boys went. :evil:
GOB
BTW....Your right about one thing Misha, she wouldn't be pulling this cr*p with a Russian husband.
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Yes, Yes, Yes Sculpto GQ.
But what to do with the "drunken" wife/mother who stays out all night with other men? :rolleyes2:
AND.....Brings "strange" men to his home, with his baby there?
GOB
Objection your Honor.. Heresay
Why don't we just stick to the facts:
1. She discussed going to wherever to get together with friends.
2. He agreed and himself wanted a little break.
3. She overdid the partying
4. She called hubby to let him know she'd be late and had found two willing males to drive her back.
5. She got back home either still intoxicated or well hung over.
6. He has been monitoring her communications for an unknown period of time possibly installing device or software during her absence.
7. He has only partial information and asked for help here to figure it out
8. The evidence presented is inconclusive, native speakers leaning toward dumb talk, others irrefutable proof of wrongdoing.
9. The evidence presented may likely be from a chatroom with one or many individuals involved, male and/or female
10. It is not known who was at the party whether participation was all male, female or mixed.
Out of the basic facts, I read that the guy started worrying when she announced the delayed return, set up a keylogger since he knew she chatted a lot with the folks she was visiting and ended up with dubious results. If he had been monitoring before, he would likely have been able to provide more than this one chat session. Chats leading up to the trip would have been interesting, but he's probably still trying to monitor and just doesn't have a good chance to retrieve data or device since she's home all the time, can't drive and can't fly. Hunnie, why don't you walk down to the 7/11 and get me a 6pack.. it's only 10 miles..
He got 'spooked' and that's about it.. definitely overreacted with snooping around that just exacerbated his anxiety.
But yeah, go ahead and prepare your pyre with glee.. or draw and quarter.. how about flay alive for better visuals? Maybe make the kid watch as a warning, so that it doesn't pass down to the next generation.
What a big deal over nuthin.. I'm outa this thread until something of real substance comes along.
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C'mon BC, you can't say 'stick the facts' and then make up 'facts' of your own.
4. She called hubby to let him know she'd be late and had found two willing males to drive her back.
Where did the original poster say this? I just reread his posts and I don't see it.
6. He has been monitoring her communications for an unknown period of time possibly installing device or software during her absence.
Possibly, but we don't know this. It's not a fact. He says he 'found' this conversation.
8. native speakers leaning toward dumb talk
Some native lean towards dumb talk. Other native speakers say this is bad behavior and there is most likely cheating going on. Mies stated that if the situation was reversed (her husband inviting female friends over while she wasn't around) it could possibly be a deal breaker.
9. The evidence presented may likely be from a chatroom with one or many individuals involved, male and/or female
A chatroom? Why is that likely? Pure conjecture and not a fact.
Out of the basic facts...
Then you throw in your own interpretation, just like everyone else. Where did she announce her delayed return? I seriously don't see this in his posts.
I agree though, big deal over nothing. There's just not enough information given.
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BTW....Your right about one thing Misha, she wouldn't be pulling this cr*p with a Russian husband.
Reading some of the comments, I now understand why some RW will see a foreigner as a foolish лох easily manipulated, deceived and fleeced :evil:
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In rereading the original post, trying to find where BC's claims come from I noticed that the original poster says:
she just left for the weekend to visit her russian guy friends
on a Tuesday! But maybe he meant "she just spent the weekend visiting her russian guy friends"?
Also, now I see the confusion over the quoted "slushayu poshla ty na...."
The conversation about her mom is a second conversation that started an hour after the first conversation ended. By the way, the original poster didn't mention it was a Skype conversation, it's mentioned in the conversation itself.
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BTW....Your right about one thing Misha, she wouldn't be pulling this cr*p with a Russian husband.
Thats because there are too many weak idiots(foriegners), one of morons who posts here even calls himself the DEFENER OF RUSSIAN WOMEN!
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GQ it would appear to me that you've had a serious overreaction to everyone's overreaction :o The OP's wife has pretty much been labeled a slut by most here thats true. It's based on a preponderance of the evidence. The only defense for her came from the same source as the accusation. Her husband, and, he agreed that she could go. We have pretty much zero on the OP for information other than he "may or may not" be a Muddy fan and using a keylogger. Doesn't strike me as a completely bad guy because he 1) took care of the child and 2) is worried about his marriage. Attempting to fit him in your description of the social leper really doesn't apply here does it?
Faux Pas-
It isn't an over-reaction on my part. Unlike the thread, there's ample enough 'evidence' here to support that observation. People jump to their own conclusions regarding this story.
You can also take KenC and ScottinCrimea's saga to further support that assertion. There were men rabid enough to accuse their respectives wives of being GCGs all along. It didn't matter that those two men were telling the audience their own take(s) in their respective marriages. Men jumped to damning conclusion based on nothing and despite the presence of information from Ken and Scott.
She went to visit friends living in Chicago. Inadvertently, she got drunk. Folks already made her out as a career alcoholic who's been doing this every weekend since she crossed POE.
I never said the OP was a bad guy. I said he over-reacted. I also said he is insecure. Why else would you think this woman would defend her relationship and marriage to the OP to her own mother and share that little skit in the monologue with her alleged hoser. Does that make sense to you?
One of the scanario folks need to embrace is this possibility. Men are feeding this man's insecurities which may undoubtedly and wrongly feed his fear and could potentially end a relationship with a woman who actually do LOVE him.
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Thats because there are too many weak idiots(foriegners), one of morons who posts here even calls himself the DEFENER OF RUSSIAN WOMEN!
Muddy, here's my original quote that you have misinterpreted twice, now:
I've been a big defender of RM on here whenever the old cliches about alcoholics and abusers...
I know I'm SIMPLE and NAIVE, but unlike you I certainly know the difference between a Russian man and a Russian woman.
By the way, last night I watched Two Mules for Sister Sarah and stayed awake during the end credits to see if you had a role.
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One thing I have noticed the RW on RWD all had different translations into English on what was written which has given us foreign men different meanings on what went on. I translated it myself this morning and I would have answered differently on prior posts. I did not think the writing was from skype or icq and just assumed the OP only showed what his wife wrote. I had no idea key logger only shows what was written by the wife.
From the womens point of view I think the OP did three things wrong (the RW did things wrong also):
1. Married a young girl not ready for marriage. He thought her partying (OP did mention 24/7 drinking) would go away because he was rescuing her by bringing her to the USA. Party girls do not change over night.
2. OP puts work over family. Travelling around for business and not teaching her how to drive and giving her a car. She is bored and came across RM who want to have fun with her. He should have quit his work and stopped travelling. OP said she could not travel within the country legally - this makes no sense to me unless he brought her across the Mexican border and never got her a visa.
3. No experience in dating women. He was a desperate man who married a woman who knew had issues he did not like. You see this a lot. Foreign man marries a RW based on his lower head. Has to do this since young attractive women are out of his league. Gator talks about chemistry a lot over looks. This guy went just for the looks.
Do not assume this girl lives in a village. Based on taking bus from Chicago to Wisconsin she probably lives in an areas of 2 million people including more than 30,000 Russian born. But with no car might as well be in Siberia.
Would be nice if the OP could write his story on here - 1st meeting up until now. I think a lot can be learned. There are mistakes by the RW and RM. But she is not happy in the relationship and wants out. It is well known in Chicago and Milwaukee area that many RW and RM marry. The families who now live in America want this. No different than the Arabs in Detroit. 5 years from now this girl will be back in her home country or married to a RM living in USA.
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By the way, last night I watched Two Mules for Sister Sarah and stayed awake during the end credits to see if you had a role.
Let me guess.....The 2nd "mule" for Sister Sarah was Ambach ? :rolleyes2:
GOB
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By the way, last night I watched Two Mules for Sister Sarah and stayed awake during the end credits to see if you had a role.
:ROFL:
Let's be fair. Muddy did not receive his full credentials as a mule. A fully certified mule would not have sent his woman back to Ukraine. Instead he would have kept her around the house until she implemented her escape plan.
All Muddy did was pay for visa petition expenses, pay for her flights, suffer the embarrassment of telling everyone he made a mistake, and use one of his two K-1 allotments. I forgot the cost of key logging software.
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One of the scanario folks need to embrace is this possibility. Men are feeding this man's insecurities which may undoubtedly and wrongly feed his fear and could potentially end a relationship with a woman who actually do LOVE him.
Thats a scenario, but here's a fact, the marriage is in danger because the wife is prone to putting herself in a vulnerable position to be taken advantage of by males. Action needs to happen and it's not going to be initiated by the wife.
If the OP installed a keyboard logger way before this incident, that tells me there could be other incidences that's got him worked up. He never understood the mumbo jumbo that she typed and as a last resort came here for a translation. Smiley face when he's gone is enough to tell her feelings for him. I don't think she loves him. What spouse in their right mind talks like that to friends unless it's the truth. He's stressing. The marriage needs a fix.
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Let me guess.....The 2nd "mule" for Sister Sarah is Ambach ? :rolleyes2:
GOB
LOL
The images are funny! :ROFL:
Gator, the expenses were nothing, it was really worth it if you know what I mean pal:)
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Why else would you think this woman would defend her relationship and marriage to the OP to her own mother and share that little skit in the monologue with her alleged hoser. Does that make sense to you?
GQ, this conversation was separate, and with another woman, not the party buddy guy. She doesn't say she defended her marriage, she says she's upset with her mom's comments and that mom 'can't judge her'.
Why is mom picking that day to rant about her daughter's husband anyways? Maybe because the daughter told mom about her weekend with her friends and her husband's adverse reaction to it? Maybe she's upset because based on recent events she knows her mom is right?
We really don't know.
We know there is a one year old child in a one year old marriage. Was this a shotgun marriage? Did she file a K-1 while she was pregnant? There's too much missing information here.
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Thats a scenario, but here's a fact, the marriage is in danger because the wife is prone to putting herself in a vulnerable position to be taken advantage of by males.
:ROFL:
If the OP installed a keyboard logger way before this incident, that tells me there could be other incidences that's got him worked up.
Hhhmm, if the OPs installed a key logger ~ there's a reason for it and hence it's understandable?!?.
BillyB, is that a mistake or do you actually support that?
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Muddy did not receive his full credentials as a mule. A fully certified mule would not have sent his woman back to Ukraine.
Yes Gator, BUT....Did she really get on the plane?? :evil:
Maybe she "tricked" the Mule Muddy at the airport and she is still here in the GoodOl' USA? 8)
GOB
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We really don't know.
Exactly. THAT and the ensuing rush to judgment.
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:ROFL:
Let's be fair. Muddy did not receive his full credentials as a mule. A fully certified mule would not have sent his woman back to Ukraine. Instead he would have kept her around the house until she implemented her escape plan.
Muddy tells a lot of tall tales, he posted this a long while ago to explain why he sent his ex-fiancee back to Ukraine:
MUDDY SAID:
You are 100% correct
I had a relationship with a Ukrainian girl and you wont believe some of the things she was writing her friends not about me but about the US and how life is here .....
If you really want to know them install a keylogger on your computer and see who/what they writing. Very cold and very stupid, thank god I sent her back to Ukraine.
Notice how he specifically says she wasn't insulting HIM, but her new country, and that's why he sent her back. What a great patriot!
Hmmm, but then many months later, Muddy forgot his little white lie and wrote this:
MUDDY SAID:
That is what my ex wrote her best friend in Ukraine her 1st week here
"Its paradise here"
So which is it, Muddy? Supposedly you sent her home for insulting your beloved country, but then in another post you claim she said it's paradise here. I think the truth is self-evident.
For the real deal on what Muddy found in his keylogger files, I think he inadvertantly confessed here:
MUDDY SAID: If she uses a computer I bet from the day you married this woman she has been writing and emailing her boyfreindS in Russia and has been writing her family and friends about you and her plans
Make a note of it, I wrote BOYFRIENDS.
So what's the truth, Muddy? Your ex-fiancee loathed you, saw you as something less than a man, and married you simply for a GC. You don't have to lie to everyone about how great the sex was and how it was worth the expense blah blah blah, since even if you DID get anything she probably had her eyes clenched shut the entire time.
It's nothing to be ashamed of, but if you feel the need to lie about it so as to avoid looking like the fool you are, next time you should make an effort to stick with one story.
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mies, Aloe, Doll, etc...
Lost in all of these assumptions, I would like to ask you ladies the following.
I agree with you - OPs wife didn't have a chance to adjust to life in new country, and now is trying to get normal human communication.
regarding woman disappearing at nights I personally voiced no opinion till now. This is a rather slippery area, with lots of razor-thin lines between "OK, acceptable under some circumstances" and "totally wrong". The OP provided too few details about the nature of the relationship of his wife and her friends - to be honest I am not sure he took time to learn the names and genders of all those friends. He does not mention the age difference between him and his wife, he does not mention whether he was ever invited to join them partying and whether he had voluntarily refused to do so, and if yes - on how many occasions. I do not justify the woman's night wanders, but i never was capable to understand the devotion of prudent citizens who'd pick, marry, and will continuously try to convert the party animal into a prudent and quiet member of society and respectable family member of outstanding Chrisitan/Muslim/any other virtues.
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groovlstk,
I am not going to read your long post, how long did it take you to put all of that together??
On page 21 LOL :ROFL:
Dude, you should stop thinking about Muddy so much! You are really a simple man!
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Sorry, i don't see what assumptions I have made in this thread this far,
mies, you misunderstood the post. The assumptions stated are those made by the marauding males without the benefit of actual accounting. Not the opinions, like yours, based on what is actually given.
and why do you list all females' views on this thread as if we were expressing the same assumptions or same arguments. The only thing both me, Aloe, and Doll had agreed upon here is that dialogue provided by OP does not smell with affair.
I don't agree she's having an affair either based on the presented information on hand.
The female opinion solicited is prompted by the overlooked fact the OP's wife just recently had a baby. They were married over a year ago and now has a child hardly a year old. What that appear to me is this woman had other MORE important matters to attend to the past 1-1.5 years. Getting pregnant, bearing a child, then nursing him to those early months.
I was not only trying to acquire a female's point of view, but in fact, like the OP's wife, a recently immigated female's point of view.
Thus, I believe, the couple decided that she needed a break from this period. Which, as I stated, parallels what my female friends and their hubbies had done as well in their respective marriages, that is, to give the woman some moment of refuge or a break. Would a recently immigrated FSUW (which is where the solicitation of your opinions come in), given the events of the last year or so, be longing for some time off like local women seem to do(?) - and if so, would the longing include the familiarity of any cultural identification i.e. anything Russian, which would be far more easily accomodating.
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groovlstk, write me the short version.
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mies, you misunderstood the post.
sorry, i misread it. my bad :-[
Our friends - mid 30s married couple have a young child, wife is staying at home with child. Husband used to like to go out partying every weekend. He was not cheating, but he was out, often with female friends, often drinking beers, and he'd come home tipsy well past midnight. This was his way to relax from stress at work and child-related stress at home. Situation similar to OPs only this was a husband going out. Wife tolerated it to some point, and then one day she announced a party, invited all friends and husband's colleagues, and in the morning of that day she told her husband she wants some private time before party and left for a beauty/shopping stroll. She didn't come back at lunchtime, her phone was "forgotten" at home, husband was driven mad by screaming baby, had to feed baby and attend to her other needs. And on top of that - he realized that the guests will show up just in few hours, that it's too late to call off the party, and the house has to be cleaned by then, and meals cooked or ordered. What he later told us - this was the most stressful and dreadful day of his life. So bad - that getting a PhD in physics was child's play compared to the single day of running around the house, taking care of baby, cleaning, and cooking/ordering food at the same time. By the night of the day when guests left - he was totally worn out and barely breathing. Then wife showed up home, happy, after a great relaxed day and asked him how he spent his and whether he still thinks that taking care of baby and house is a relaxing pleasant duty.
Since that day - he started taking turns with his wife going out, or was inviting a babysitter to go out together with wife.
Now, the question is: Does the OP spend every day/night with the baby? How much he takes care of own child? And how many duties his wife has?
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Hhhmm, if the OPs installed a key logger ~ there's a reason for it and hence it's understandable?!?.
BillyB, is that a mistake or do you actually support that?
Now who's making assumptions? I never recommend a keyboard logger. I don't need a keyboard logger. I wouldn't marry the OP's wife because I would understand her lifestyle doesn't match mine before marrying her and maybe she's not ready to be a wife and mother. If a wife did something I thought was out of line, then we talk. I don't ignore red flags and do nothing.
You and a few RW saying there's no problem and nothing to worry about will cause the OP more harm than help. Lack of action in this case is worse than action. The OP needs help to build trust and make his marriage stronger. It's up to the wife to be a team player or leave the marriage and find a man that she can play with. Counselling is one option but I'm not too sure the RW wife will agree to that. If they weren't married and without a child, it's so much easier to break up and find a person(s) they could live with.
Wedding vows I assume are similar everywhere. Love, devotion, faithul, honor, cherish are some of the words use. It's not happening in this marriage. Does anybody seriously think nothing needs to be done after what the OP posted?
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Which, as I stated, parallels what my female friends and their hubbies had done as well in their respective marriages, that is, to give the woman some moment of refuge or a break.
Seeking refuge :rolleyes2: So, that is the new euphemism :evil: Oddly, my wife has not had the need to seek "refuge" in close to three years.
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Now who's making assumptions? I never recommend a keyboard logger. I don't need a keyboard logger.
A question is hardly ever an assumption. Did you noticed how YOU easily to jump to that conclusion?
I wouldn't marry the OP's wife because I would understand her lifestyle doesn't match mine before marrying her and maybe she's not ready to be a wife and mother.
How well do you know the OP's wife?
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Seeking refuge :rolleyes2: So, that is the new euphemism :evil: Oddly, my wife has not had the need to seek "refuge" in close to three years.
Of course not because we all know you took your time Misha. Would you like a cookie with that?
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but i never was capable to understand the devotion of prudent citizens who'd pick, marry, and will continuously try to convert the party animal into a prudent and quiet member of society and respectable family member of outstanding Chrisitan/Muslim/any other virtues.
This is why we have the GQ's of the world. They potray the strong, secure male of the herd. They exhibit the tolerance required for these type of women. They do it at the expense of their own dignity and of their partner. They convinced themselves they are the strong, secure alpha needed in these special situations. But in reality they are weak and probally more insecure than the so called player. Remove the mask and you see weakness.
They dont command respect from their mate. They are like jelly fish, no backbone, eventually their mate loses respect for them. They see the weakness. The mate wants a strong partner who respects himself and who has convictions and at least some morals.
The jelly fish eventually turns to blob when it must confront the very issues he was supposedly secure about. The mask comes off. Reality sets in.
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Of course not because we all know you took your time Misha. Would you like a cookie with that?
Nah, just happy to have a wife who isn't seeking refuge 8)
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The female opinion solicited is prompted by the overlooked fact the OP's wife just recently had a baby. They were married over a year ago and now has a child hardly a year old. What that appear to me is this woman had other MORE important matters to attend to the past 1-1.5 years. Getting pregnant, bearing a child, then nursing him to those early months.
what if going out is her way of dealing with pregnancy-related depression? it won't be better if she was mentally rotting at home among bottles with formula and Pampers' packs.
Thus, I believe, the couple decided that she needed a break from this period. Which, as I stated, parallels what my female friends and their hubbies had done as well in their respective marriages, that is, to give the woman some moment of refuge or a break.
I agree with you and with the idea that break is needed
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This is why we have the GQ's of the world. They potray the strong, secure male of the herd. They exhibit the tolerance required for these type of women. They do it at the expense of their own dignity and of their partner. They convinced themselves they are the strong, secure alpha needed in these special situations. But in reality they are weak and probally more insecure than the so called player. Remove the mask and you see weakness.
They dont command respect from their mate. They are like jelly fish, no backbone, eventually their mate loses respect for them. They see the weakness. The mate wants a strong partner who respects himself and who has convictions and at least some morals.
The jelly fish eventually turns to blob when it must confront the very issues he was supposedly secure about. The mask comes off. Reality sets in.
I am not sure alpha male is the one who's asking opinions on forum. Also, I always believed that players are exactly the Alpha males. Those who are trying to match the TV-screen image of reliable head of household are strong B :rolleyes2: but then - what do I know with certainty? nothing.
this type of woman require either tolerance or a matching man. If two in a couple like going out - then there is no drama, and no tragedy. When wife likes going out and husband doesn't - it's the "bad boy syndrome" discussed in "ask russian woman" section of the forum. Only we have a "bad girl syndrome", and the question "Is it true that some men are constantly and inadvertently falling for bad girls and why so?"
Spying on the wife and feeding own fears with own wild imagination isn't a tolerance. It's masochism.
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How well do you know the OP's wife?
Enough to know she gets drunk with RM for a whole weekend while her husband stays home.
I don't get drunk and go out with female friends when I have a gf/fiancee/wife I can have fun/party with. I want the same type of woman. I also don't jump into marriage with strangers. Before proposing, I'd make sure I could live with the woman based off what I know from her behavior patterns. I'm older, wiser, and I certainly don't want to be in the position of asking for marriage help or another divorce statistic.
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what if going out is her way of dealing with pregnancy-related depression? Do you think it would be better if she was mentally rotting at home among bottles with formula and Pampers' packs?
Her self-treatment for depression is hardly a great solution. Alcohol as a depressant would only exacerbate any postpartum depression.
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what if going out is her way of dealing with pregnancy-related depression? Do you think it would be better if she was mentally rotting at home among bottles with formula and Pampers' packs?
mies, I agree. It isn't too much to ask, or give, a woman a break from the daily responsibilities of nurturing a child. This is often overlooked by our male population in the past. A lot of couples I know, as I'm sure it isn't isolated within that circle, do allow their wives an occasional 'break' from this responsibility i.e. shopping, dinner with friends, outing with friends, etc...
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They dont command respect from their mate. They are like jelly fish, no backbone, eventually their mate loses respect for them. They see the weakness. The mate wants a strong partner who respects himself and who has convictions and at least some morals.
Translation: Control freak and abusers.
There Faux Pas, is a great example of what I was talking about when I spoke of the types of men who look for wives in FSU.
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Translation: Control freak and abusers.
Translation: self-respect and being in a couple where both parties respect each other.
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Her self-treatment for depression is hardly a great solution. Alcohol as a depressant would only exacerbate any postpartum depression.
Misha, I was not talking of alcohol - I was talking about going out. Nobody here except for OP know with certainty how much, how often, and with whom this woman drinks. Women can't drink alcohol during pregnancy or breast-feeding. If the baby is about 1yo, that means woman stopped breast-feeding just recently. I see no harm if she wants to have a beer after the 2-year of alcohol-free life. Let's try to be more considerate of limitations women face when they decide to have a baby. I think a woman has a full right to have a drink if she wants to and it will not harm her baby.
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Translation: Control freak and abusers.
There Faux Pas, is a great example of what I was talking about when I spoke of the types of men who look for wives in FSU.
Actually You dont understand what it means. I will explain the term.
I used command not demand.
Demanding is controlling. Commanding is conducting yourself in a way where you recieve respect back without asking.
Anything else you want me to explain
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Translation: self-respect and being in a couple where both parties respect each other.
So long as she remains subservient.
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Commanding is conducting yourself in a way where you recieve it back without asking.
with the help of google:
Control - the activity of managing or exerting control over something; "the control of the mob by the police was admirable" :)
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Actually You dont understand what it means. I will explain the term.
I used command not demand.
Demanding is controlling. Commanding is conducting yourself in a way where you recieve respect back without asking.
Anything else you want me to explain
So you issue commands to your wife. OK. What else do you do?
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So long as she remains subservient.
No, its called having shared expectations. I don't go out all night drinking with single women, she does not go out all night drinking with single men. It is called mutual respect and respecting the sacred vows that we took when we were married.
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No, its called having shared expectations. I don't go out all night drinking with single women, she does not go out all night drinking with single men. It is called mutual respect and respecting the sacred vows that we took when we were married.
I thought it was because you were afraid of being tempted into cheating? :evil:
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I thought it was because you were afraid of being tempted into cheating? :evil:
No, but it is also best to avoid temptation and the appearance of impropriety. Then again, neither my wife or I have to seek "refuge." :evil:
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No, its called having shared expectations.
LOL.
You expect her to be subservient, and she needs to expect that you will expect her to be subservient.
Gotcha!
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Translation: Control freak and abusers.
There Faux Pas, is a great example of what I was talking about when I spoke of the types of men who look for wives in FSU.
Point taken. But for me GQ, a break for my wife might be some shopping or an evening out with friends (of which I would certainly hope I would be one) unless it was an all girl evening in which I would certainly pass. It could include a getaway weekend to a resort and the spa treatment to which I could attend or not. I'm not demanding or controlling I am very trusting but, I certainly wouldn't marry a woman who was not my very best friend or I was not hers. Apparently this isn't the case of the OP but it doesn't excuse her behavior IMO
A getaway would not include a drunken weekend with the boys for the wife or with the girls for the husband. I see you being flippant on an extreme as if it is nothing to a marriage when in fact, it is very important to a marriage that neither man nor woman behave in this manner. You have been taking a dump on Misha's points that are very valid to prove your point (which is also valid). Thus, my post on overreacting.
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Where is all this information coming from?
The original poster didn't say anything to suggest that his wife sits at home alone taking care of the baby. On the contrary, he stated that he spends 24/7 with his wife, stated that he put in a lot of effort assimilating his wife to an American lifestlye and mentioned that his wife was looking over his shoulder while he was home all day. From his posts he goes into work in the evening and goes on business trips on weekends.
Frankly, his work situation isn't clear and we don't know:
Who spends more time taking care of the baby.
If the wife can drive.
If the wife has a car or not.
If the wife has a job. (From the chat log it seems that she does).
I can understand assumptions based on the chat log and what the original poster had to say, but so many of these assumptions are just coming out of thin air.
Mies, just like nobody here knows how much, how often and with whom this woman drinks, we don't know if this woman has been alcohol-free for the past 2 years. We do know that she didn't go out for a beer. She came home still drunk at 10AM in the morning. We also know that this woman used to drink all the time back home in Ukraine.
So sorry, talking about a woman having a beer after 2 years without drinking doesn't relate to what was posted here.
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You expect her to be subservient, and she needs to expect that you will expect her to be subservient.
No, it's called expecting her to act as a married woman as I act as a married man. Marriage should be more than two people acting as if they are still single living under the same roof :rolleyes2:
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Point taken. But for me GQ, a break for my wife might be some shopping or an evening out with friends (of which I would certainly hope I would be one) unless it was an all girl evening in which I would certainly pass. It could include a getaway weekend to a resort and the spa treatment to which I could attend or not. I'm not demanding or controlling I am very trusting but, I certainly wouldn't marry a woman who was not my very best friend or I was not hers. Apparently this isn't the case of the OP but it doesn't excuse her behavior IMO
A getaway would not include a drunken weekend with the boys for the wife or with the girls for the husband. I see you being flippant on an extreme as if it is nothing to a marriage when in fact, it is very important to a marriage that neither man nor woman behave in this manner. You have been taking a dump on Misha's points that are very valid to prove your point (which is also valid). Thus, my post on overreacting.
Every couple do have their own creed and limitations they follow and adhere to. The premise I'm in is the fact there's an obvious lack of a complete story in this saga. That's not being flippant.
I had said before in this thread that if the drinking is habitual for this woman, regardless whether she's doing it with men, women, or their neighbor's dog; I won't tolerate it either. Being I do not know, and neither do you, what's the rush to judgment?
Could be that this particular couple were simply a little more tolerating in theirs but is now giving the OP second thoughts - I don't know. Discuss the relationship and the dynamics both can agree on. Understand one another better.
What I find unpallatable in this thread is the prevailing need to rush to judgment based solely on pure speculatory baselines. I stated an opinion based on these reactions.
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Being drunk 24/7 does not sound real. I don't believe OP in this regard.
me neither. It looks more like the OP is irritated by her being "irresponsible" and having careless life (yeah, taking care of the house, a child, and not being able to drive a car in USA) while he is working so hard and having all the responsibility.
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Mies, how do you know this woman is not able to drive a car in the USA? How do you know that the woman takes care of the house or even the child? Where was any of this posted?
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what if going out is her way of dealing with pregnancy-related depression? would it be better if she was mentally rotting at home among bottles with formula and Pampers' packs?
I agree with you and with the idea that break is needed
Ahh... finally something with possible substance so I'll free my thoughts again.
Speaking from experience, pregnancy especially early on can be quite rough.
11 months after touching down in this country our child was born. During that period my wife went to RU for 2.5 months, MIL came here for 3 months just before birth, I was always at home anyway except for short business travel absences but basically gave up a good bit of work (and income) to spend time with family. Talking a huge investment in time folks but it still did not negate bouts of post partum depression from time to time, and for a good period afterward. Birth is just the beginning.
May sound like overkill, but just think about it.. just landed in country, pregnant, foreign doctor and health care system, language, transport dependent, etc etc.. they sum up quickly.
I cannot imagine how we would have survived without the support structure we had available and with me often 'on the road' for business..
In any case I believe the couple at this time in their lives, have, and will continue to face a huge amount of relationship stressors.
OTOH I also did not know anything at all about RW being 'traditional' when we met and married, thus had no expectations at all in that area. I think today this alone is still of great advantage. That word is vastly overrated, buyer beware, dig your own hole kinda thing.
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Mies, how do you know this woman is not able to drive a car in the USA? How do you know that the woman takes care of the house or even the child? Where was any of this posted?
it said so earlier on this thread. She cannot drive (this information appear in the thread but not in current version of OPs posts), and for some reason she cannot lawfully travel by planes (this is what OP says in his posts). She can only use buses or get rides.
Her husband does not spend much time with her nor with the baby. He is traveling a lot (he says it in his posts).
Since he is traveling a lot - I don't see who else except his wife can take care of the baby and children - i am still trying to finish the thread to see if the OP explains anywhere how many of these children they have, whose children they are, and where do they live.
If the wife has a car or not - I am not completely positive, but i think it also was said earlier that she doesn't have a car. Maybe I am totally wrong and she does have a car and is driving. If she does have a car and is driving - why does she need to take a bus while traveling somewhere? wouldn't it be easier just to drive?
the posts of OP gave me impression that wife stays at home.
It was posted approximately on pages 7-15 of this thread.
I am not convinced where the fuss about "partying with dudes" has come from. In the IM chat there both males and females mentioned. The male with whom she is talking is in love with another woman and just was dumped by this another woman. He is going out with some second woman named Olga. The OP's wife tells the guy to forget his ex-gf and take photos with Olga. In my impression - it looks like a chat with a male friend who has girlfriend(s) and the OP's wife was not partying with dudes - she was partying with both males and females.
the OP was happy to "send her out" for weekend to get rest from his wife. Now he is pissed. Why? Mood swing? Changed his mind? Got tired taking care of kids at home while wife was partying and ended up not having a relaxing weekend for himself while she did?
I wonder what OP means by "bad track record 3 years ago"...
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What I find unpallatable in this thread is the prevailing need to rush to judgment based solely on pure speculatory baselines.
RUSH TO JUDGEMENT.....hmmm where from California have I heard that phrase before... :-\
Oh yeah.....NOW I remember.
Do you also believe that OJ is innocent and some "mean" drug dealer hacked up his wife and Ron Goldman with a knife that terrible night? :rolleyes2:
OR.....Maybe it was that "racist" cop...Mark Furman!! :evil:
Thank G*d I don't have jury duty on the West Coast. :)
GOB
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Ok, I'm getting confused here and wondering if I've been spending too much time at the computer this week.
Here are ALL of the original posters words, aside from the chat log he posted.
Your Question
is my russian wife cheating on me?
Lately i've had a odd feeling my russian wife is cheating on me or at least hiding something from me. I dont speak russian and she just left for the weekend to visit her russian guy friends. I found this message on my computer from her to them. Long story short i want to be able to trust her and I hope someone can translate this letter and let me know what she is saying and if i'm overreacting.
i should also add that i've tried all the online russian to english translators and they dont work. I assume because the text is written which english characters rather than russian letters.
I'm curious what the summary of the conversation holds not a word by word translation
we've been married for a year now and have a 1 year old son. Lately i just feel like something has changed in her... I really hope i'm wrong and overreacting.
yeah i had to stay home with our child all weekend while she spent the night partying with her "guy friends"... till 10am then came home sunday night drunk after being dropped off from chicago to wisconsin by the same men who so kindly (hmm) drove her up here after she missed the last bus back home..
Just my alarms are going off and I dont want to be played for a fool.
I'm not the jealous type anymore, i just have a million opportunites in my own personal life to be with other people but i've been 100% faithful to her (i used to have a bad track record BEFORE i met her, 3 years ago).
I think your definatly onto something there. Maybe i'm misinterpreting her reverting back to her true ukrainian identity as somehow cheating on me. Myabe i'm a controlling jerk because how i feel is that i've worked so hard to assimiliate her into American culture and she finally is adapted extremely well i feel like she took a major step backwards. Its NOT that i have a problem with the culture itself is that life has been extrmely hard for her here, due to her nieveness of american ways and laws. I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsability with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities, just like she had done ALL weekeend.
i will try to read all of the replies to evening, i'm at work now and i didnt want to read this while at the house, as she was looking over my shoulder all day.
I was ok with her leaving over the weekend because i take alot of trips aroudnd the country for business and since she cannot legally travel on a airplane yet i felt bad for her being home and wanted her to have fun. Plus honestly its overbearing sometimes being around her 24/7 and was looking for some down time myself.
So... I don't see anywhere in this where:
- she can't drive
- she doesn't have a car
- she can only use buses
- she phoned her husband saying telling him that she'd be late
- her husband doesn't spend much time with her or the baby
Can you point these things out to me in the text above? Am I not seeing something?
He says directly "honestly its overbearing sometimes being around her 24/7" and "I didnt want to read this while at the house, as she was looking over my shoulder all day." Both imply that he spends a lot of time with her and the baby at home, just not when he's out of town on business.
It's also implied in the chat log that she has a job. Right?
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Here is my translation of what she said:
19:19:04 bla bla bla
19:19:23 remember -on every occasion i'm blaming you/make you appear the guilty one
19:19:55 gde seychas? - where are you now?
19:19:58 doma? - at home?
19:20:01 spish? - sleeping?
19:21:13 zasnul vchera v mashine, ne razbudit, ne poproshalis Smiley - he fell asleep in the car yesterday, (we) didn't say goodbuy to each other
19:21:25 ona shyfruetsya - she is being descrete
19:21:26 est - yes/i do/i have (for example "i have some time")
19:21:32 u mneya - i have (it)
19:21:36 menya
19:22:08 pokinula, tebya tankom ne razbudish, zasnul, raskinulsya vo ves rost - yes, i abandoned you - you fell asleep, nothing can wake you up
19:22:39 pyan' - drunk
19:23:27 kakih vpechatleniy? - what kind of impressions do you mean?
19:24:23 s toboy razgovarivat - vse ravno, chto golovoy ob stenku bitsya- odin effect - to talk to you is like hammer once's head to the wall - same effect.
19:24:50 nikogda pryamo ne otvechaesh - impossible to get a clear/direct response from you
19:24:58 vsegda razmyto kak-to - always vague/blurred (talk/replies)
19:25:25 pravilno, von pohodite s oley v klub pofotkaysya - that's a good idea, come over with Olya (woman) to club to make photos
19:25:31 vystav fotki - post/upload photos
19:26:12 dazhe esli ona zahochet vernutsya, vse ravno rano ili pozdno tebya opyat brosit - even if she'll want to come back - she will anyway sooner or later will dump you again
19:26:28 tak chto dumay golovoy - so think for yourself/think with your brain
19:27:01 hochetsya verit, chto est chem - i'd like to believe that you have a brain
19:27:03
19:27:34 o, dim, platye moe ostavila u martynova doma - Dima, by the way, i left my dress at Martynow's home
19:27:49 tolko kupila v Akire vchera Smiley - the one i just got in Akira yesterday
19:28:50 priezzhayte, muzh uedet skoro v utu, tak chto budu odna Smiley - (you all) come over, husband is going soon to Utah, i'll be alone
19:29:34 chto o
19:30:06 hot tub(e) - what about hottub?
19:30:10 umnik, hahah - smartass LOL
19:30:42 a tebe lizhby buhat - the only thing you think of is drinking (the tone here is disapproving)
19:30:48 zavyazyvay - cut it (the drinking)
19:32:00 ya v dells hochu, v waterpark - i want to go to dells, to waterpark
19:33:00 hochu v waterpark - i want to waterpark
19:33:38 shut up
19:34:18 eto ty mne? - did you tell this to me?
19:34:23 sam biatch - you are bi*ch yourself
19:35:35 podseli k sebe roommate, devushku kakuyu-nit - get a roommate for yourself, some girl
19:36:37 von marinka ishet zhilye opyat - my (acquaintance) Marina looks for housing
19:36:54 marinka zahochet - Marinka will want (to be your roommate)
19:37:17 a pochemu normalnaya ne zahochet? 1 bedroom? ty na divane budesh Smiley
- why do you think normal girl would not want to? in 1 bedroom? (not too bad) you'll sleep at the couch
19:38:00 ya tebe tut miss wisconsin nashla, ona zahochet Smiley - i just found for you Miss Wisconsin - she'll be eager
19:40:22 nu togda ishi sam krasivuy - then look for beautiful (girl) yourself (i stop helping you)
19:42:05 chto eto znachit? ya tebe nayti dolzhna? chtoby esli chto, ya vinovata ostalas - what do you mean? that I ought to find (a girl) for you? that if something (goes wrong) i'd be the guilty/accused one?
19:42:17 net, spasibo Smiley - no, thank you (i won't do it)
19:42:28 ty luchshe ishi, a ya otsenivat budu - it would be better if you look (for girls) and i will be evaluating/screening them
19:43:17 pochemu? - why?
19:43:38 kstati, fotki ty eshe ne udalil, ya ih mogu videt - by the way - you have not yet deleted photos, and i can (still) see them
19:43:47 tyazhelo, dimochka, da? - hard, isn't it Dimochka?
19:43:49 =)
19:44:58 Smiley
19:45:50 "Zabey na chest, dengi vazhnee" - kruto - "good" moto "forget the honor, money is more important" (most likely she is disapprovingly commenting on someone else's expression)
19:46:04 osobenno fotk - especially the photo
19:46:09 8A
19:46:58 LADNO, POBEZHALA POKURU POKA CUSTOMERS NET - ok - i'll go smoke while there are no customers
20:38:20 slushayu poshla ty na.... - you know what - just fu-k yourself (talking to a femlae, most likely to her mom)
20:38:50 mama pozvonila nervy mne poportila (( - (talking to another person) mom just called me and got on my nerves/spoiled my mood
20:41:22 chto ne izmenilos? - what didn't change? (possibly meaning that her mom was known for this attitude to daughter before)
20:41:44 ya ne dumayu, chto ona ochen odobryaet moy brak - I do not think that she approves my marriage
20:42:57 govorit kultury raznye - she says that cultures are different
20:43:20 koroche, ne ey sudit - in short - it's none of her business
20:44:37 ladno, ty budesh v skype pozzhe? - ok - are you going to be in skype later?
20:45:03 ok, ttyl, u mneya seychas nastroeniya net - ok, ttyl, i am not in the mood (for talking) right now
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1) you are right Jooky, hot tub appears in this monologue. But it is not offered by the OP's wife. It looks more like the other person in the chat casually mentioned the hottub in the unknown context, most likely jokingly. About humorous context of the hot-tub question from Dima we can assume by the OP's wife responding to him "smartass". It could be a question of a kind "ok, you want us to visit - we'll come to visit if you have a hottub".
Even though - this last word could have been used in reference to some other question or remark from Dima, which isn't known to us since the OP only quotes his wife.
2) about the car and driving - as i said - does not appear in the comments of OP. It appeared in someone else's post. I did not know from where this information come from. What i see in this situation - the OP's wife prefers to use the bus (she was late at bus) or friend's car, instead of driving own car. The possibilities why she didn't drive her own car:
- didn't want to (possible)
- does not have own car (possible)
- does not have valid driver's license (combined with the info that she cannot lawfully travel by plane in USA - most likely it's related to her immigration status, and it is possible that she does not have valid driver's license).
3) i finally noticed in her monologue that she is in fact working - she is mentioning some customers. who are not there at the moment so she has time to smoke a cigarette.
Which is very interesting remark given that OP claims she chatted from her home computer and left chat window open.
That is:
-either the OP has own business/service/shop and his wife works there (hence easier to overcome problems related to immigration status and inability to travel)
-or she works not in OP's business, and she was chatting from work. Then question is: why OP is lying that she kept the chat window open at home?
- or he was intentionally checking Skype chat history (it seems to me the history can be recovered no matter which computer was used for chat). adn then the OP did not just casually bumped into chat, but he started intentionally spying on his wife.
Even stranger conclusion - if the OP's wife is in fact working AND looking after 1yo baby, AND the house - why the OP claims that she is irresponsible and lazy partying and drinking 24/7 like she used to be doing back in Ukraine. (how long did he live with her together back in Ukraine? Did he make his conclusions about her lifestyle based on her behavior during her 1-week vacation while he was visiting there? Under what circumstances they met?)
Where did he get it from that his wife is lazy and irresponsible? I suppose her working and having 1yo baby is what he calls "I helped her getting adjusted to life in USA" and when she tries to relax and have some fun he calls it "a huge step back to her culture". hmmm.... how interesting..
4) why she can use only bus?
- she can't use flights
- on a trains - "non-citizen looking" passangers' documents are often checked too. At least mine were checked twice in two times i traveled by intercity train. On buses - i have not seen anybody checking documents. She for some reason does not drive car (either can't or doesn't want to).
the options are: air (impossible), train (undesirable), bus (possible), and car (all we know is that she chosen not to drive)
5) i didn't see where it says that OP spends much time with a child. He did spend much time with the child during weekend, and it made him so tired that he decided that he was too lenient with his wife, and should have not let her go for a trip.
6) why a woman who talks disapprovingly of man's drinking and tell him to cut on it, is called an alcoholic?
and finally - i am still curious what OP meant by "bad track record 3 years ago"? Could male contributors in this thread share their opinions, please? :-)
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Do you also believe that OJ
Holy Desperation Deadbeats Batman! What's OJ got to do with all these? Was he in the hot tub with Chicago Dima?
GOB- Are you speaking of the same OJ who found Florida to be the only state out of 50 to be silly enough to accomodate him? THAT OJ?
:ROFL:
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This is why we have the GQ's of the world. ....They do it at the expense of their own dignity and of their partner. They convinced themselves they are the strong, secure alpha needed in these special situations. But in reality they are weak and probally more insecure than the so called player.
They dont command respect from their mate. They are like jelly fish, no backbone, eventually their mate loses respect for them. They see the weakness. The mate wants a strong partner who respects himself and who has convictions and at least some morals.
The jelly fish eventually turns to blob when it must confront the very issues he was supposedly secure about. The mask comes off. Reality sets in.
Wow! Strong words SMS. Is such really justified? You make a bigger stretch than many posters are making with the incomplete transcript.
I met GQBlues. He is not how you described. He somehow managed to marry a real Siberian beauty who literally stands about a foot taller than him. A "jellyfish" could never do that.
I do not not recall the wedding date; however, they are still married well after the time when GC girls and agenda girls have flown the coop.
You are off base here.
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I think Sculpto and Kuna got sent to the woodshed by "Herr" Dan. :evil:
I've been there a "few" times myself. :rolleyes2:
GOB
LOL, the war would definately be going in a different direction if Sculpto were here :)
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IMO the "chat" is irrelevant. Whether or not some RM/s is up to his nuts in the ol' lady's guts or not is beside the point. The marriage is over and they need to have a "blunt" (Frank if you like) discussion to sort out the longer term living arrangements.
I base my view on her bad behaviour and to be fair, I would susepct his may be no better. Generally there is fault on both sides. Doesn't change anything. This one is in the crapper.
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20:38:20 slushayu poshla ty na.... - you know what - just fu-k yourself (talking to a femlae, most likely to her mom)
20:38:50 mama pozvonila nervy mne poportila (( - (talking to another person) mom just called me and got on my nerves/spoiled my mood
If the OP's wife talks to her mother in such manner (according to your "most likely") the OP's alarms really should be going off.
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IMO the "chat" is irrelevant. Whether or not some RM/s is up to his nuts in the ol' lady's guts or not is beside the point. The marriage is over and they need to have a "blunt" (Frank if you like) discussion to sort out the longer term living arrangements.
I base my view on her bad behaviour and to be fair, I would susepct his may be no better. Generally there is fault on both sides. Doesn't change anything. This one is in the crapper.
do you have a mystic ball to see the future in? :) how can you know that their marriage is over?
Guys and gals who tell the OP that marriage is over - how can you give advices of this level and importance to a man whom you do not know personally, and whose full story you never learned? It's very easy to give an advices like that here on the forum board, especially if it will not touch/harm your family in any way. And for OP's family your advices could turn into tragedy for 3 people. Be sensible please.
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If the OP's wife talks to her mother in such manner (according to your "most likely") the OP's alarms really should be going off.
we do not know in which expressions does her mother talk to her. Maybe this style was set by mom.
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we do not know in which expressions does her mother talk to her. Maybe this style was set by mom.
Mother's style? In such case it sounds as "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"
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Mother's style? In such case it sounds as "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"
sorry, i don't see your point.
also - this was only an assumption that she is possibly talking to her mom. For sure we only know that she said it to a woman. And right after it she told someone else that her mom was getting on her nerves and telling her daughter that she made bad choice of a husband, and whatever else she might have told.
My ukrainian colleague stopped talking to her mom for 10 years when her mom for no reason after her daughter got married was calling her daughter all sort of things and demanding that she divorce the guy and made abortion. And was attacking husband verbally every day. They started living separately, but mom continued calling them every day with a scandal telling her daughter that she is a trainwreck, that the husband is a looser and "empty space", and that they are doomed forever. So one day when their marriage was really close to sad end, my colleague told her mom to fu-k herself and cut all contacts with her. Interestingly, in a 10 years, the couple still love each other very much, they are together, they have wonderful son their mom/MIL wanted to kill unborn, husband is CEO in large company, and woman is director finance in another company. They are solid upper-middle class in Ukraine. What would happen if the woman did not tell her mother the magic words and listened to her? My colleague still does not talk to her mom. And every time when she mentions her - she sounds very bitter and hurt. She says she does not feel like talking to her, and she does not feel that she is her mom.
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do you have a mystic ball to see the future in? :) how can you know that their marriage is over?
Guys and gals who tell the OP that marriage is over - how can you give advices of this level and importance to a man whom you do not know personally, and whose full story you never learned? It's very easy to give an advices like that here on the forum board, especially if it will not touch/harm your family in any way. And for OP's family your advices could turn into tragedy for 3 people. Be sensible please.
Maybe because there is so much this woman has done that OP does not know anything about and its all bad!
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Ok, I'm getting confused here and wondering if I've been spending too much time at the computer this week.
Here are ALL of the original posters words, aside from the chat log he posted.
So... I don't see anywhere in this where:
- she can't drive
- she doesn't have a car
- she can only use buses
- she phoned her husband saying telling him that she'd be late
- her husband doesn't spend much time with her or the baby
Can you point these things out to me in the text above? Am I not seeing something?
He says directly "honestly its overbearing sometimes being around her 24/7" and "I didnt want to read this while at the house, as she was looking over my shoulder all day." Both imply that he spends a lot of time with her and the baby at home, just not when he's out of town on business.
It's also implied in the chat log that she has a job. Right?
Yeah, I went and read all his posts too and found almost none of what is being conjectured and attributed to this situation.
The further away from the source of information the more BS gets infused...
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Maybe because there is so much this woman has done that OP does not know anything about and its all bad!
come on. If you tell me that you won't see such scenes in USA - i'll call you a liar. In my very first time out here in USA a girl approached me while i was talking to my husband, grabbed my hand (she was a bit tipsy/jolly) and said "you are going with us, i like you - always wanted to have a girlfriend like you" and kissed my lips before i or my husband were able to say anything.
i suspect quite a few males still feel nostalgic about witch-hunting times.
Muddy - if you think all women are so bad - why do you need one? Just stay good, no sinful women around - great recipe for happy life ;-)
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ok
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Yeah, I went and read all his posts too and found almost none of what is being conjectured and attributed to this situation.
The further away from the source of information the more BS gets infused...
I agree with you JR.
but what do we see?
OP's wife "drinks 24/7" - i wonder when she finds time to go to the toilet, sleep, and based on the volumes of alcohol consumption - puke, if she spends all time driking? Still 24/7 and "all weekend" are very specific numbers. Weekend is two days, she was gone for 48 hours. Easy math.
When OP talks about himself - he is much too vague:
he spends "much time" travelling
he spends "much time with kid"
he spends much time with "children" and "working"
I need numbers. I'm sure he knows how many hours/week he spends working if he is so hardworking. Therefore, i'm sure it won't be hard for him to tell how many hours each day, or each week he spends with his child.
Then he calls his wife irresponsible and tells he only knows partying, but then it is clear that she is working and has a baby. So is she a lazy bum or is she not?
Then he tells that the chat was saved on home computer, but wife was chatting from work.
Then he says that his wife is always drinking, while from the chat it is clear that she disapproves drinking and tells her friend he needs to stop doing it.
pieces do not come together.
See my point?
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sorry, i don't see your point.
the apple doesn't fall far from the tree - A child grows up to be very similar to its parents in the way they act. In your case we talk about the girl's manner to talk her mother ;)
also - this was only an assumption ...
May I also make one ;)
From the post by the OP we know that "life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities". Mother, who was watching her daughter's style of life in Ukraine and after all got to know about the OP's participation in the "non stop parties" when he visited her daughter in Ukraine (of course if he participated), has all reasons not to approve her daughter's marriage . And every time when the mother tries to talk to her daughter about it she get's on her daughter's nerves especially when her daughter just returned after a "non stop night party" ;)
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This thread is getting unbelievably ridiculous :(:
1. We have only 1 side of the conversation, and already there are markedly divergent opinions on how that Russian one-sided chat should be interpreted.
2. Everybody is contributing opinions on its significance based on personal experiences, regardless of how applicable they might be.
3. The OP went mum after his initial post, never disclosing how he got that info and how he intends to act on the 'wisdom' proffered here.
At this point, ANY opinions are just GOSSIP mongering, IMO :-\.
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the apple doesn't fall far from the tree - A child grows up to be very similar to its parents in the way they act. In your case we talk about the girl's manner to talk her mother ;)
thank you. I know what this term means. But i do not see how it applies here. If the OP's wife was calling OP a jerk, and their little baby "little bastard" - i'd see that apple doesn't fall from the tree. In the case of daughter talking disrespectfully to her mom who is trying to "fix" daughter's life her way - more appropriate words of wisdom would be "for every force there is a counter-force".
May I also make one ;)
From the post by the OP we know that "life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities". Mother, who was watching her daughter's style of life in Ukraine and after all got to know about the OP's participation in the "non stop parties" when he visited her daughter in Ukraine (of course if he participated), has all reasons not to approve her daughter's marriage . And every time when the mother tries to talk to her daughter about it she get's on her daughter's nerves especially when her daughter just returned after a "non stop night party" ;)
if mom knew that in Ukraine girl's life was filled with good friends, binge-drinking and partying, and now her daughter is married to a good man, living in the USa, and having a baby - a good serious woman - do you really think that mom would be talking negatively about daughter's choice, marriage, and differences in culture? For me it is clear that she wouldn't.
Interestingly - mom said not a word about "non-stop partying", which for me indicated that there is no such problem. mom said about "culture differences" with husband.
I know, i know - it is always easy to accuse any woman for all women are sinful until they proven otherwise with years/decades of service, integrity, and team spirit. but... but... i'm not convinced with your assumptions - in my storage of life stories I do not have a story that could match your assumption, but i have plenty of stories to support my assumption. We all build assumptions on some prior knowledge or experiences ;-)
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Mies, where do you get this?:
Even stranger conclusion - if the OP's wife is in fact working AND looking after 1yo baby, AND the house - why the OP claims that she is irresponsible and lazy partying and drinking 24/7 like she used to be doing back in Ukraine. (how long did he live with her together back in Ukraine? Did he make his conclusions about her lifestyle based on her behavior during her 1-week vacation while he was visiting there? Under what circumstances they met?)
Where did he get it from that his wife is lazy and irresponsible? I suppose her working and having 1yo baby is what he calls "I helped her getting adjusted to life in USA" and when she tries to relax and have some fun he calls it "a huge step back to her culture". hmmm.... how interesting..
How you know they don't have a full-time nanny or several live-in servants?
Where is all this information coming from?
There are only a few reasonable conclusions that may be drawn from what is posted:
1. The marriage is in trouble.
2. The OP isn't happy with her behavior during the weekend in question.
3. If this behavior continues she'll probably cheat.
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the only guy in this story worth checking is someone with last name Martynov. He is apparently a guy, and the woman was in his apartment and forgot her shopping bag with freshly bought dress there. The questions are: is he married? Does he have a girlfriend? What are his relationship with the OP's wife?
the OP can talk to his wife, tell her he wants to meet her friends, and ask in detail about each of them. No need to tell her that he checked her chat history.
Then OP can go from there.
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At this point, ANY opinions are just GOSSIP mongering, IMO :-\.
but isn't it what people like to do? ;D
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but isn't it what people like to do? ;D
Granted ;).
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I agree with you JR.
but what do we see?
OP's wife "drinks 24/7" - i wonder when she finds time to go to the toilet, sleep, and based on the volumes of alcohol consumption - puke, if she spends all time driking? Still 24/7 and "all weekend" are very specific numbers. Weekend is two days, she was gone for 48 hours. Easy math.
When OP talks about himself - he is much too vague:
he spends "much time" travelling
he spends "much time with kid"
he spends much time with "children" and "working"
I need numbers. I'm sure he knows how many hours/week he spends working if he is so hardworking. Therefore, i'm sure it won't be hard for him to tell how many hours each day, or each week he spends with his child.
Then he calls his wife irresponsible and tells he only knows partying, but then it is clear that she is working and has a baby. So is she a lazy bum or is she not?
Then he tells that the chat was saved on home computer, but wife was chatting from work.
Then he says that his wife is always drinking, while from the chat it is clear that she disapproves drinking and tells her friend he needs to stop doing it.
pieces do not come together.
See my point?
It is literal to say that the sun shines 24/7.
24/7 is not literal when used in this fashion: "She drinks 24/7." No one can drink 24/7 and remain alive. It is meant to say that in the OP's opinion she drinks too much.
Way too much is being infused into all of this and I believe that if Sculpto were here this thread would have a VERY different feel to it :)
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This thread is getting unbelievably ridiculous :(:
1. We have only 1 side of the conversation, and already there are markedly divergent opinions on how that Russian one-sided chat should be interpreted.
2. Everybody is contributing opinions on its significance based on personal experiences, regardless of how applicable they might be.
3. The OP went mum after his initial post, never disclosing how he got that info and how he intends to act on the 'wisdom' proffered here.
At this point, ANY opinions are just GOSSIP mongering, IMO :-\.
I know you hate me and have me on ignore but I'm with you in this one :)
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... but i have plenty of stories to support my assumption. We all build assumptions on some prior knowledge or experiences ;-)
I have no doubt you have :)
And some men caring their horns also will find thousands even the most ridiculous assumptions and justifications for the behavior of their "faithful" wives just to lessen the weight of the horns, and it is not easy for every man to admit a simple fact that he is a cuckold ;)
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Mies, where do you get this?:
Even stranger conclusion - if the OP's wife is in fact working AND looking after 1yo baby, AND the house - why the OP claims that she is irresponsible and lazy partying and drinking 24/7 like she used to be doing back in Ukraine. (how long did he live with her together back in Ukraine? Did he make his conclusions about her lifestyle based on her behavior during her 1-week vacation while he was visiting there? Under what circumstances they met?)
Where did he get it from that his wife is lazy and irresponsible? I suppose her working and having 1yo baby is what he calls "I helped her getting adjusted to life in USA" and when she tries to relax and have some fun he calls it "a huge step back to her culture". hmmm.... how interesting..
How you know they don't have a full-time nanny or several live-in servants?
Where is all this information coming from?
ok - about nanny and servants - you got me :-) see - my mind is framed by my life, and idea of live-in servants and nunny does not come to my mind. But is it very possible that they have live-in servants and nunny? :-) What do you think?
Woman on the unqualified work (customer service) earns about same or sometimes less than a nunny. It is financially infeasible to make woman with small baby work while paying nunny to look after the child. Just a common sense. and gossips of course.
having a 1yo baby is a 24/7 duty. It can be enough to fill the day with routine, and it won't be a lazily wasted day. having to clean the house and do some extra work - apparently takes the time extra.
about girl in Ukraine and a guy - How did I get what? How did I get my questions? No need to get irritated JR :-) Those are quite natural, and quite innocent questions. The OP can claim that the girl was drinking and partying 24/7 at home only if he was observing her over long period of time, at her home/normal lifestyle. That would be possible only if they lived together or were dating together for at least several months in ukraine. What's wrong with my questions? I do not doubt that he could possibly lived with her in Ukraine for longer time, i was simply asking whether it was indeed so.
about OP changing his mind - he admitted he changed his mind. At first he was not against her leaving for a weekend because he wanted to have time for himself at home, without his wife's company. After she came back - he changed his opinion. In addition - he bitterly remarks that she was partying all weekend while he was with child. I wonder if this was the time with child, that made him change his mind later. Also quite normal question. I have plenty of friends with young children, and I see how drastically the mood of men changes once they need to spend the whole day taking care of screaming baby, and not just playing with clean and fed baby for 30 minutes in the evening. No rocket science here.
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OP said:
I'm curious what the summary of the conversation holds not a word by word translation
You got the summary AND a word by word translation. Now factor that into whatever you need to do. Everything else in this thread are pure speculation.
Maybe i'm misinterpreting her reverting back to her true ukrainian identity as somehow cheating on me. Myabe i'm a controlling jerk because how i feel is that i've worked so hard to assimiliate her into American culture and she finally is adapted extremely well i feel like she took a major step backwards. Its NOT that i have a problem with the culture itself is that life has been extrmely hard for her here, due to her nieveness of american ways and laws. I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsability with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities, just like she had done ALL weekeend.
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I know you hate me and have me on ignore but I'm with you in this one :)
JR, I don't really hate you, I just find your kind of 'humour' irritatingly childish for a grown-up and nauseatingly repetitive. Just my personal, biased opinion - you can't win them all - and back to Ignore you go ;).
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ok - about nanny and servants - you got me :-) see - my mind is framed by my life, and idea of live-in servants and nunny does not come to my mind. But is it very possible that they have live-in servants and nunny? :-) What do you think?
Woman on the unqualified work (customer service) earns about same or sometimes less than a nunny. It is financially infeasible to make woman with small baby work while paying nunny to look after the child. Just a common sense. and gossips of course.
Sorry Mies, I am picking on you when a lot of people are running rampage. But you cannot logically draw your conclusion from what was written. The OP feels his wife parties too much (or at least did). That is all that is there, nothing more.
We all frame our opinions thru the filters of our experiences and what we personally consider to be "normal." But it is not known if she works because they need the money or to get away from a life she hates.
This whole thread has devolved into a circus. It is helping no one. We should try to stick with what is presented by the OP and give meaningful advice accordingly. They need help.
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JR, I don't really hate you, I just find your kind of 'humour' irritatingly childish for a grown-up and nauseatingly repetitive. Just my personal, biased opinion - you can't win them all - and back to Ignore you go ;).
I KNEW I was going to get you to come off the button one day even if only for a moment :)
Sandro, you don't know what you're missing! I mean literally, you don't know! Get it? You have me on ignore so you can't possibly know, HAHAHAAA!!! Damn I'm funny :)
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:ROFL:
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Sandro, you don't know what you're missing! I mean literally, you don't know! Get it? You have me on ignore so you can't possibly know, HAHAHAAA!!! Damn I'm funny :)
Sorry, I don't agree with that AT ALL :-\ - but don't let that deter you, just my personal taste as I said, probably others have a different opinion and you have an appreciative audience anyway, just don't include me in their number, I have a different palate.
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OP's wife "drinks 24/7" - i wonder when she finds time to go to the toilet, sleep, and based on the volumes of alcohol consumption - puke, if she spends all time driking?
Question: What do you call the OP's wife after she drinks a bottle of vodka, a jug of bourbon, and a case of beer? Answer below.
I don't think the OP meant his wife is loaded with alcohol all day everyday but she may be a quite the drinker and I hope she isn't breast feeding her baby at those times. Fuk, biatch and words used like that doesn't sound like she's a very sophisticated, classy or elegant woman.
I think the OP knew what kind of woman he married. That's why he's so worried now. Getting married and having a quick baby didn't get her to settle down or fall in love with him.
Answer: "Just getting started!"
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You got the summary AND a word by word translation. Now factor that into whatever you need to do.
Here I agree. Maybe the OP should look back and recall if he ever had a conversation with his wife about their life together, family life, expectations, "ways and laws" or all that conversations were lost in the non stop parties with good friends.
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how can you know that their marriage is over?
The trust is gone. Evidenced by his coming here in the first instance.
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Sorry, I don't agree with that AT ALL :-\ - but don't let that deter you, just my personal taste as I said, probably others have a different opinion and you have an appreciative audience anyway, just don't include me in their number, I have a different palate.
I'm just teasing you Sandro. I've been out of the "I want phase" for some time. Happy sailing :)
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Happy sailing :)
Same to you, our respective compasses just point to a different heading, humour-wise ;). Chalk it up to a different magnetic deviation, ours is only +2°.
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Same to you, our respective compasses just point to a different heading, humour-wise ;).
Yes, quite. I have a sense of humor and you don't ;)
That of course is a joke, only a joke and nothing but a joke!
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Mies, thanks for you explanations. I think you're extrapolating far too much and you tend to paint this woman as some sort of victim based on your own prejudices. (For example you seem to make a big deal about 'taking care of a home'. I don't think that taking care of a home is a big deal).
The poster needs to answer questions as the information is simply not there yet.
For example, all we know is that this woman took a bus one time to Chicago to visit friends. Maybe she took the bus because she knew she was going to drink. I've done the same before. She rode the bus one time, it doesn't mean that she can't drive, or is cooped up all day watching children.
The original poster says his wife isn't allowed to fly. Either he's mistaken, or there is something extremely strange about his wife's situation.
You're right that it's suspicious that this woman is dealing with 'customers', in person, at night, while supposedly at home. I won't make any guesses as to what that's all about.
The original poster has said very little in this thread and most of what he's said doesn't quite fit together. We need more information and that's all.
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Mies, thanks for you explanations. I think you're extrapolating far too much
agree :-) I am extrapolating too much. but i do not try to paint the wife in white-orange-green-black colors or make her look like a victim. Just trying to fill in the gaps in the scarce information presented by OP. and yet - my extrapolations aren't that big as are extrapolations of some guys here who are calling woman an alcoholic and bad mother based on the information provided.
Regarding bus to Chicago - I suppose that depends how long does the bus-ride take. 30 minutes? an hour? 2h? 4? This also will make a difference. If the bus-ride is long - then she was not exactly going out with dudes. She was visiting friends in another town - and this is completely different situation. For example where did she stay at during this visit?
If a bus-ride is just 30 minutes - then she was staying at their place so as not to come back home late on Saturday night (or rather early on Sunday morning)
in case with taking care of house - that depends what exactly is meant by "taking care", and how big is the house. For example if man almost never cooks nor eats at home, cleans his bathtub and sink twice a year, sends his shirts to dry-cleaners, and vacuums his apartment in bi-weekly periods - I agree that it is not a big deal. If a woman has an infant to take care of, she is not getting normal sleep at night, she cleans apartment daily so that it's clean for child, if husband comes back home at the evening - she meets him with ready home-made dinner on preparing which she spent 2-3-4 hours, she washes and then irons the household's cloths, etc - then it's quite a big deal. Especially when she has both the child and the cleaning/cooking/washing etc. I am not trying to make this woman look like a hero - all women do this. But unlike some men think - all these are very time and energy consuming activities.
I hope the OP will come back and will clarify whether his wife has own car, can drive/has valid driver's license, and the rest of interesting questions :-) That would really help to get better judgment on the story.
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For example where did she stay at during this visit?
May be at the place where she forgot her just bought dress? :) At Martynov's house with "the same men"...
she spent the night partying with her "guy friends"... till 10am then came being dropped off from chicago to wisconsin by the same men who so kindly (hmm) drove her up here after she missed the last bus back home..
I am not trying to make this woman look like a hero - all women do this.
But not all married women have night parties with their "guy friends" leaving husbands with children behind :)
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But not all married women have night parties with their "guy friends" leaving husbands with children behind :)
I agree with Olga. I couldn't see my wife doing this either.
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I agree with Olga. I couldn't see my wife doing this either.
Misha, i think everybody got that by now, no need to repeat thyself time after time :P It almost sounds like you are trying to convince yourself :P
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mies, you misunderstood the post. The assumptions stated are those made by the marauding males without the benefit of actual accounting. Not the opinions, like yours, based on what is actually given.
I don't agree she's having an affair either based on the presented information on hand.
The female opinion solicited is prompted by the overlooked fact the OP's wife just recently had a baby. They were married over a year ago and now has a child hardly a year old. What that appear to me is this woman had other MORE important matters to attend to the past 1-1.5 years. Getting pregnant, bearing a child, then nursing him to those early months.
I was not only trying to acquire a female's point of view, but in fact, like the OP's wife, a recently immigated female's point of view.
Thus, I believe, the couple decided that she needed a break from this period. Which, as I stated, parallels what my female friends and their hubbies had done as well in their respective marriages, that is, to give the woman some moment of refuge or a break. Would a recently immigrated FSUW (which is where the solicitation of your opinions come in), given the events of the last year or so, be longing for some time off like local women seem to do(?) - and if so, would the longing include the familiarity of any cultural identification i.e. anything Russian, which would be far more easily accomodating.
Any woman would long for some time off when taking care of a small baby, i think. Doesnt matter immigrated or not;
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Now who's making assumptions? I never recommend a keyboard logger. I don't need a keyboard logger. I wouldn't marry the OP's wife because I would understand her lifestyle doesn't match mine before marrying her and maybe she's not ready to be a wife and mother. If a wife did something I thought was out of line, then we talk. I don't ignore red flags and do nothing.
You and a few RW saying there's no problem and nothing to worry about will cause the OP more harm than help. Lack of action in this case is worse than action. The OP needs help to build trust and make his marriage stronger. It's up to the wife to be a team player or leave the marriage and find a man that she can play with. Counselling is one option but I'm not too sure the RW wife will agree to that. If they weren't married and without a child, it's so much easier to break up and find a person(s) they could live with.
Wedding vows I assume are similar everywhere. Love, devotion, faithul, honor, cherish are some of the words use. It's not happening in this marriage. Does anybody seriously think nothing needs to be done after what the OP posted?
BillyB, nobody ever said it was ok. All we said you cant say that she is cheating based on this info, and we also provided possible explanations to her behavior. It doesnt mean we approve that kind of behavior.
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Mies, thanks for you explanations. I think you're extrapolating far too much and you tend to paint this woman as some sort of victim based on your own prejudices. (For example you seem to make a big deal about 'taking care of a home'. I don't think that taking care of a home is a big deal).
The poster needs to answer questions as the information is simply not there yet.
For example, all we know is that this woman took a bus one time to Chicago to visit friends. Maybe she took the bus because she knew she was going to drink. I've done the same before. She rode the bus one time, it doesn't mean that she can't drive, or is cooped up all day watching children.
The original poster says his wife isn't allowed to fly. Either he's mistaken, or there is something extremely strange about his wife's situation.
You're right that it's suspicious that this woman is dealing with 'customers', in person, at night, while supposedly at home. I won't make any guesses as to what that's all about.
The original poster has said very little in this thread and most of what he's said doesn't quite fit together. We need more information and that's all.
You try taking care of a home, cooking dinner every day, going grocery shopping (by foot and no more than 5-6 kg groceries at a time), vacuuming, dusting, washing the floor, washing the laundry and ironing everything, then say its no big deal :P It may not be a big deal if you clean once a year and eat out but for some of us, who have higher standards, it can be quite a big deal. Especially for those who didnt have to do any of it before marrying.
I think the original post is trolling, too many things dont add up. Like her being at work, yet mysteriously he got a hold of her chat logs off the work computer, and other things
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You try taking care of a home... blah blah blah
I do everything you mentioned, with the exception that I only walk to the store when I'm living in Russia. I love cooking, and the rest is easy enough and a nice break from my typical 12 hour days at the damn computer.
It's funny you assume I wouldn't do these things because I'm a man? Where I grew up most couples split this type of work. In some couples the wife is a stay at home mom and takes care of all this and in some couples the husband is a stay at home dad. Most single men I know actually take better care of their homes and cook more often than most single women I know. The Mr. Moms I know are loving life raising kids, taking them to the park and bike rides rather than sit in an office cubicle all day.
That's not a lifestyle for me, as I enjoy running a business. But it's not overwhelming to run my business 7 days a week and take care of my home even on days where I'm also watching kids. So again, no big deal. People protest too much. Modern life isn't that rough.
Too many things dont add up.
Absolutely agree, and too many assumptions on both sides of the argument here.
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Misha, i think everybody got that by now, no need to repeat thyself time after time :P It almost sounds like you are trying to convince yourself :P
No, but it is good to remind people that this is not typical behavior :evil: As Gator pointed out, we are a pretty "boring" couple who tend to go to bed early after a long evening of bike riding, canning and perhaps a raucous game of Monopoly :evil:
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You try taking care of a home, cooking dinner every day, going grocery shopping (by foot and no more than 5-6 kg groceries at a time), vacuuming, dusting, washing the floor, washing the laundry and ironing everything, then say its no big deal :P
I agree with Jooky, it is not a big deal. It is called life. My wife and I split everything 50/50. There are many tasks that only I do (notably breakfast and vacuuming) and scrubbing the tub, some tasks that my wife does (the occasional ironing) and virtually everything else we do together. In addition to the tasks that you have mentioned, we have also been picking wild berries and making a variety of jams. I enjoy it, so it is not a big deal. When we have children, we will be splitting the work to be done as well (except for breastfeeding of course :evil:)
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But not all married women have night parties with their "guy friends" leaving husbands with children behind :)
Olga, Вы лукавите,
she was not partying at night. She went to another town, about 200 miles or 300 km away. She went away for two days. At what time did she go to bed while visiting friends - is rather irrelevant question. Or is there a curfew for married women to be at bedroom 9pm sharp and wake up at night only to meet the needs of child and husband?
Plus, OP did not mind her going - he thought it was a good idea and he was looking forward to spend a weekend at home without wife. Is it a very typical behavior for males sharing their negative comments about this particular woman? Do you also enjoy spending a weekend alone without your wife? Olga, does your husband feel that it would be a good idea that you go away for a weekend чтобы ему никто не капал на мозги? I'm sure you have very different relation with your husband ;)
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I do everything you mentioned, with the exception that I only walk to the store when I'm living in Russia. I love cooking, and the rest is easy enough and a nice break from my typical 12 hour days at the damn computer.
ok, daily math:
work at computer: 12 hours
cooking dinner every day: 2-3+ hours
going grocery shopping: based on 3.5 weekly shopping - about 30min/day on average
vacuuming: 20-40min
dusting: 30-60min
washing the floor: 1 hour
washing the laundry: load-unload - about 5 min averaged from weekly total time
ironing everything: 30 min (averaged from weekly ironing)
eating dinner: 10 min+
loading/unloading dishwasher: 10 min
lavatory use: 10 min
evening shower: 10min
dressing undressing: 10min
let's add up: 18h 25min
time left for sleep, wife, kids and forum: 5h 35 min :D
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ok, daily math:
cooking dinner every day: 2-3+ hours
eating dinner: 10 min+
Man, all that prep work just for a 10-minute payoff? :cheesygrin:
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Man, all that prep work just for a 10-minute payoff? :cheesygrin:
i was taking minimum technical value - not the hedonic one :D
naturally savoring the dinner will take more time ;D
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Ridiculous Mies.
These tasks don't take nearly the amount of time you've listed, and I do keep myself well fed and my home is clean. Maybe you need to take housekeeping lessons from me? :P
I admit though, I usually sleep 4-6 hours daily. Not much more.
I don't buy all these lame excuses about how rough life is when you raise 1 kid, maybe work, maybe clean the house, maybe even you're stuck at home without a car. Cry me a river. It's just normal life.
The couple in question here is having problems. There is lack of trust and respect on both sides. This man has a gut feeling that something is wrong and it seems to be not only from a single weekend incident.
Maybe nothing to worry about happened over this weekend and it's wrong to fuel this man's paranoia, but it's also wrong to pretend that this type of behavior is normal and everything is hunky dory. He has a gut feeling something is wrong. As a weekend break instead of a romantic getaway together she chooses to go drinking with other men. They are both looking over each other's shoulders.
This is not normal in a healthy marriage, and the weak excuses of potential 'hardships' being presented here are things that wouldn't matter at all for a couple that loved and trusted each other.
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Olga, Вы лукавите,
No I don't. I don't stretch the truth at least what was written by the OP while you try to make other story from his posts.
she was not partying at night.
How do you know it?
The OP wrote:
she spent the night partying with her "guy friends"... till 10am then came home sunday night drunk after being dropped off from chicago to wisconsin by the same men who so kindly (hmm) drove her up here after she missed the last bus back home..
Does the OP know where exactly his wife spent all weekend? How did she meet that "guy friends"? Does the OP know her friends? Did she introduce her friends to her husband especially that the same men who "so kindly drove her" or she hide them from her husband?
Olga, does your husband feel that it would be a good idea that you go away for a weekend чтобы ему никто не капал на мозги? I'm sure you have very different relation with your husband ;)
Mies, Your assumption regarding me being nagging at my husband or pester my husband was rude.
But, you are right that my husband and I have different relationship. Can you imagine we spend our weekends together, we party together, we shopping, we travel together, we work together, we know each other's friends, we have nothing to hide from each other and we don't need to seek some kind of refuge from each other. Maybe such family life is beyond your comprehension. :)
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I don't buy all these lame excuses about how rough life is when you raise 1 kid, maybe work, maybe clean the house, maybe even you're stuck at home without a car. Cry me a river. It's just normal life.
Agree.
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she was not partying at night
The original poster said his wife came home at 10 in the morning still drunk.
She was either partying that morning or she was partying all night. Which makes most sense to you?
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BillyB, nobody ever said it was ok. All we said you cant say that she is cheating based on this info, and we also provided possible explanations to her behavior. It doesnt mean we approve that kind of behavior.
I think you got it backwards. Nobody said she was cheating but people have said her behavior is okay with a night out with the boys. She doesn't have to intend to cheat but being drunk she puts herself in a vulnerable position to do anything.
Anyway, I'd wish I could find a woman who'd make the big bucks and I stay home to clean. ;D Maids who clean dozens of rooms and bathrooms a day for 8 hours a day do have a full time cleaning job. Some women who work wished they had a man that made enough money so they didn't have to work and they could stay home with their precious children instead of letting a daycare have fun with them.
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But, you are right that my husband and I have different relationship. Can you imagine we spend our weekends together, we party together, we shopping, we travel together, we work together, we know each other's friends, we have nothing to hide from each other and we don't need to seek some kind of refuge from each other. Maybe such family life is beyond your comprehension. :)
The horror of it all! Robert must be quite the control freak, as I allegedly am with my wife :evil: Sorry, couldn't resist. It is interesting, however, to see how there seems to be a need to normalize the atypical and the dysfunctional. These past few days, reading these posts, I feel as if it has become shameful to actually like spending time with one's wife and husband :rolleyes2:
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Anyway, I'd wish I could find a woman who'd make the big bucks and I stay home to clean.
You forgot- you also need to have a baby :D AND work. Your wife will go on her business trips (continuously)
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Mies, Your assumption regarding me being nagging at my husband or pester my husband was rude.
Olga, I would never allow myself to make such assumptions about you. You have misunderstood my post. "Wife's nagging" was the reason for which the OP said he thought it was not a bad idea to let his wife go out for a weekend. I said that in your family - your husband do not have similar thoughts about you, and therefore - you judge woman based on how your husband treats you, however the OP has different "climate" in their household.
But, you are right that my husband and I have different relationship. Can you imagine we spend our weekends together, we party together, we shopping, we travel together, we work together, we know each other's friends, we have nothing to hide from each other and we don't need to seek some kind of refuge from each other. Maybe such family life is beyond your comprehension.
oh really??? NO WAY!!! is it possible? are you sure this is how you live? ;D
i think lifestyle of our family is quite similar to yours - only we don't work together. But we discuss work quite a lot. I do not feel like traveling alone, though i can travel alone and still enjoy it. This is my choice. I do not need to impose my life choices upon other people, with very different tastes, preferences and needs. Let them do whatever they want to do. Do you need to proclaim everybody different a "bad person"? As i said - witch-hunting is still ever-popular. as well as Pygmalion's role.
Ольга, я по сравнению с Вами в жизненных вопросах человек достаточно зеленый. И Ваше мнение я очень уважаю. Но Вы применяете русскую традицию "во всем виновата жена". Не бывает так что жена одна во всем виновата. ОР ведь не маменькин сынок из института благородных юношей. Он взрослый, зрелый, адекватный человек. Сначала он выбирает девочку руководствуюясь своими личными критериями и он не против ее стиля жизни. Рожает с ней ребенка, а потом она ему буквально за год надоедает, и он говорит что он пытался ее наставить на путь истинный, но она опять пошла по наклонной, не дает ему расслабиться дома, и даже уходя из дома - тоже не дает ему расслабитсья. Ну какой уважающий муж о своей жене такое скажет? Пусть в библиотеку ее на выходные отсылает - в чем проблема? И дома ему никто мешать не будет, тишина-красота, и жена в надежном месте без хахалей.
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Ridiculous Mies.
These tasks don't take nearly the amount of time you've listed, and I do keep myself well fed and my home is clean. Maybe you need to take housekeeping lessons from me? :P
maybe the quality cleaning and cooking take more time, huh? I know dozens of techniques how to make apartment LOOK clean in 5 minutes. How to make apartment really clean - is a different question. Regarding cooking - that depends what you cook. If you throw a steak on a pan - it's 10 min at most. If you cook something elaborate from scratch - with all natural fresh products and no preserved/canned ingredients - the salad, entree, soup, dessert - i can assure you it takes time. Maybe you need to take some housekeeping lessons from me :P
I don't buy all these lame excuses about how rough life is when you raise 1 kid, maybe work, maybe clean the house, maybe even you're stuck at home without a car. Cry me a river. It's just normal life.
let's put you in this position in Russian provincial town, with russian wife, and see what size of the river you'll cry - Oka or Volga :P :evil:
[making a note in my pink diary "Jooky is planning to exploit his future russian wife" ;)]
This is not normal in a healthy marriage, and the weak excuses of potential 'hardships' being presented here are things that wouldn't matter at all for a couple that loved and trusted each other.
I agree with you Jooky. This isn't the healthy climate - because some of their likes are different. OP doesn't want to go out, his wife wants. It was clear for OP from the beginning, and possibly - this is what had attracted him in his wife - her jolly nature. However now he is trying to change her personality. I am not sure this will work or it is a good idea. They both need to talk, and discuss how to work out mutually acceptable lifestyle.
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The OP said:
Long story short i want to be able to trust her and I hope someone can translate this letter and let me know what she is saying and if i'm overreacting.
I'm curious what the summary of the conversation holds not a word by word translation
How I understood this is, he wanted to either validate, or disspell, his fear that his wife is cheating on him by getting the script a) translated, and/or b) summarized (he mentioned both). Which to me means: He would like someone to either summarize or translate the script to either validate, or disspell, his fear that his wife is cheating on him.
Apparently, a translation or summary was going to be enough to let him know if he is either over-reacting or his wife was indeed cheating on him.
Nowhere did I read where he also asked people to make their own assumptions at their leisure and tell him the nature of his wife, himself, OP's MIL, her friends, customers, and most of all, their marriage.
Were you folks highly disappointed there were NO conclusive damning information on the script enough to see a train wreck thus go off in so many tangents hoping to create one?
:cluebat:
Give it a rest.
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What is your point Mies? :P
You know nothing about the cleanliness of my home or tastiness of my cooking. You're welcome to stop by for a full inspection and I might even cook up some borscht if you like.
Working, cooking, raising kids... it's all normal stuff that billions of people do every day. Having to do these things (in other words, living a normal life) is not an excuse for a woman to need to party without her husband all weekend. It's completely unrelated.
Do you seriously think that the party girl in this thread is slaving away at the stove preparing 5 course meals and scrubbing the floors every day, and that's why she needed a break to go drinking with a bunch of dudes all weekend?
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No, but it is good to remind people that this is not typical behavior :evil: As Gator pointed out, we are a pretty "boring" couple who tend to go to bed early after a long evening of bike riding, canning and perhaps a raucous game of Monopoly :evil:
Let's be accurate. I did not say you were "boring." I said that you would bore my wife. Huge difference.
OFF-TOPIC example follows for Misha's benefit.
We went to one party among RW friends and their husbands. What little there was to drink disappeared in one hour. Then we played games. The clash of cultures made it interesting. The highlight of the movie trivia game came when one RW announced the answer as FOREST HUMP. Then we played another party game that was so sloooooow. It took over an hour to declare a winner, and then it was suggested to play again. My wife immediately whispered to me, "Somehow politely get us out of here!" I was ready too.
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Come on GQ, when does any thread stick only to what was asked by the original poster? :P
Just the fact that this guy took his wife's private conversation and posted it here is enough evidence for me, if not of an impending train wreck, of some serious problems with this relationship.
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Jooky wrote, I don't buy all these lame excuses about how rough life is when you raise 1 kid, maybe work, maybe clean the house, maybe even you're stuck at home without a car. Cry me a river. It's just normal life.
Agree.
Normal? Have either of you raised a child and did the rest of the list? Without help from family? I agree it is not an excuse for drunken parties, yet one does need a break from such "normal" life. The OP and his wife did not communicate about what would be an aceptable break.
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What is your point Mies? :P
Do you seriously think that the party girl in this thread is slaving away at the stove preparing 5 course meals and scrubbing the floors every day, and that's why she needed a break to go drinking with a bunch of dudes all weekend?
nothing in particular, to be honest with you :-)
i think nothing about this party girl or not a party girl. I am not even sure she is a real party girl. What I do think - is that she or her husband should not be judged here like they are. Nor given advices of a kind "dump her and find a divorce attorney". There are always two sides of a story.
As for your generous offer - pardon me for my straightforwardness, but i have little interest in the cleanness of your apartment. And I do not have a habit of inspecting dwellings of other people. :-) However, i'd gladly accept the offer of good borsch :D is this weekend going to be ok for you? :D
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The horror of it all! Robert must be quite the control freak, as I allegedly am with my wife :evil: Sorry, couldn't resist. It is interesting, however, to see how there seems to be a need to normalize the atypical and the dysfunctional. These past few days, reading these posts, I feel as if it has become shameful to actually like spending time with one's wife and husband :rolleyes2:
I'm surprised nobody call your wife or me the controls freaks :evil:
Misha, when I was in Russia and sometimes was working till 1am especially when we had preparation for the governor reception, Robert called me every hour, he called me when I was in taxi going home and after he called me on my home phone. Somebody can easily call him a control freak. But he has years of experience in homicide investigation and knows how life can be fragile and depended on the circumstances and people around . I would be more concern to bind my life to a person who doesn't care where I'm and with who.
I just can not imagine how you can let your beloved one leave without knowing where and with who. If something happens... I would go crazy.
... however the OP has different "climate" in their household.
Question is due to who the OP has different "climate" in their household?
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Normal? Have either of you raised a child and did the rest of the list? Without help from family?
If you ask me I will answer - Yes, I did.
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Come on GQ, when does any thread stick only to what was asked by the original poster? :P
:offtopic:
btw Jook, curious, did you recently fathered a child? I presume that strictly based on this....
"(I don't buy all these lame excuses about how rough life is when you raise 1 kid)"
We recently got 2 cats and if they weren't such joys to have they sure take sure are a pain in the booty. Nat adores having them so I suppose they're worth it. I think this is a pre-cursory mode to an even bigger rugrat :P
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:offtopic:
btw Jook, curious, did you recently fathered a child? That assumption was strictly based on this....
"(I don't buy all these lame excuses about how rough life is when you raise 1 kid)"
We recently got 2 cats and if they weren't such joys to have they sure take sure are a pain in the booty. Nat adores having them so I suppose they're worth it. I think this is a pre-cursory mode to an even bigger rugrat :P
:offtopic:
we also got cat recently. :D 12 months to date of sleepless nights :ROFL: The only days we managed to got uninterrupted sleep was during our two out-of-town vacations - 5 and 4 days respectively. 9 days or normal sleep, in total in a YEAR! Each time after vacation we had to partially replace our furniture. But we still believe it was well worth it :cheesygrin:
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Gator, my answer would be no. I've helped raise children (not my own) while doing the rest on the list, but not without help from family. I don't get your point though. We really don't know anything about what this woman does on a daily basis.
I agree people need a break from their daily routine, whatever that is. A break from your spouse is something else.
Mies, I have other plans this weekend, but I've held small get togethers with people from these boards before and you're welcome to come to the next one. :D
PS: I didn't get your comment about doing the same in a provincial Russian city. I do spend about 1/3 of my time living in Sibir these days in an average situation: small apartment, no car. No big deal even with the miserable weather. I guess the rough part would doing the same with a Russian wife. :P
GQ, nope, I haven't fathered any kids yet, but for years I helped raise my sister's kids spending more time with them than many parents spend with their kids.
Anyways, it's not something that one needs to do to imagine what its like. We've all lived in families. Raising kids is a normal part of life. I've known families with 8 to 13 kids. Now that's rough. Raising 1 kid? Nothing to stress about.
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Last :offtopic:
Yes mies...I had two cats before and my wife saw the last 2-3 years of their lives. She was devastated as they really took after her when she first arrived. A year later we decided to adopt these two little ones and there's not a day that went by without those precious two showering her with loving attention.
She used to prefer dogs for pets but had since changed her affinity.
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Mies, I have other plans this weekend, but I've held small get togethers with people from these boards before and you're welcome to come to the next one. :D
if your borsch is as good as you promice ... with pleasure :cheesygrin:
Last :offtopic:
.. those precious two showering her with loving attention.
we are showering our precious cat with love and attention, and if we get lucky - he let us pet him for 1-2 minutes. The rest of the time he shows true manly behavior "no place for sentiments" :ROFL:
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It may sound like utopia to be together 24/7, but as far as my experience goes it is not. Even within a relationship some private time is needed. Such is usually provided by one, the other or both going to work. Even the time commuting, or shopping can be considered private time as it allows you to get out of those four walls. We're not talking days, even a half hour or hour daily is good, but it does add up quickly if missed. Working at home does have it's downside and this is one. Add young kids into the equation, lack of alternative caretaker and it's difficult for anyone to get downtime, especially if transportation is a problem which makes it pretty much all or nothing deal.
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I just can not imagine how you can let your beloved one leave without knowing where and with who. If something happens... I would go crazy.
The OP should have thought about that sooner than later. It's understandable that he went crazy after the wife being dropped off home drunk by some Russian men.
The question the wife should have asked the OP is not about going out with friends for a break but she should ask "Could I go and do something stupid this weekend?" Stupid as in none, one or all of the following possibly happening, commit adultery, get raped while mentally impaired, catch a disease , and/or get pregnant.
If our daughters asked for permission, we would not allow them to get drunk all weekend with men that we haven't met because it's stupid and reckless. Why should we allow our spouses?
Is a spouse allowed to do something stupid/reckless within marriage without getting permission from the other? NO. Not allowed to get drunk with the opposite sex, not gamble, not spend money foolishly on unnecessary luxuries beyond what they can afford, not do drugs or basically anything that puts the family in jeopardy. If you alone want to destroy your life by taking risks, don't get married.
If women expect their man to be the main provider of the family, she should be happy to accept the role of taking care of the kids and house. Some women think it's hard work. Others find it a joy and blessing to stay home not having to work a real job and to be able to take care of their kids and watch them grow not losing a precious moment without them.
You women who think it's work and that you should be honored by your husband should put on your best lingerie, high heals and honor your man next time he comes home from work. If you want a little, you've got to give a little. Life and marriage would be a lot easier if everyone accepted their roles and appreciate the role the other spouse plays without keeping score and thinking they're getting the short end of the stick.
Unfortunately women who tend to repeat how hard it is to take care of kids tend to pass the kids off to the husband after work. I know! The ex made me go to work 8 hours and day and when I came home, she made me work another 8 hours taking care of the kids and when it was time for bed, she'd make me work another 8 hours. I was a slave 24/7! :D
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I know! The ex made me go to work 8 hours and day and when I came home, she made me work another 8 hours taking care of the kids and when it was time for bed, she'd make me work another 8 hours. I was a slave 24/7! :D
What was she making you do those last 8 hours ;)
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What was she making you do those last 8 hours ;)
Now that's utopia!
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The OP should have thought about that sooner than later. It's understandable that he went crazy after the wife being dropped off home drunk by some Russian men.
Sh!t happens..
The question the wife should have asked the OP is not about going out with friends for a break but she should ask "Could I go and do something stupid this weekend?" Stupid as in none, one or all of the following possibly happening, commit adultery, get raped while mentally impaired, catch a disease , and/or get pregnant.
Still to be seen.. probably never.. I wonder if the OP will even post again before this thread dies out.
If our daughters asked for permission, we would not allow them to get drunk all weekend with men that we haven't met because it's stupid and reckless. Why should we allow our spouses?
If your daughter is over 18 there ain't a damned thing you can do to stop her except show her the door if she is still living with you. 'Allow' our spouses? Tell yours what you will and won't 'allow' well in advance of stepping up to the altar.
Is a spouse allowed to do something stupid/reckless within marriage without getting permission from the other? NO. Not allowed to get drunk with the opposite sex, not gamble, not spend money foolishly on unnecessary luxuries beyond what they can afford, not do drugs or basically anything that puts the family in jeopardy. If you alone want to destroy your life by taking risks, don't get married.
'Permission' from whom?.. an equal partner? Thought marriage was about mutual decisions..
If women expect their man to be the main provider of the family, she should be happy to accept the role of taking care of the kids and house. Some women think it's hard work. Others find it a joy and blessing to stay home not having to work a real job and to be able to take care of their kids and watch them grow not losing a precious moment without them.
You women who think it's work and that you should be honored by your husband should put on your best lingerie, high heals and honor your man next time he comes home from work. If you want a little, you've got to give a little. Life and marriage would be a lot easier if everyone accepted their roles and appreciate the role the other spouse plays without keeping score and thinking they're getting the short end of the stick.
This will certainly get you far.. remember to print this and put it next to the condom in your wallet next time you date.. pull both out at the same time and see what happens. If she's still turned on she's a keeper.
Unfortunately women who tend to repeat how hard it is to take care of kids tend to pass the kids off to the husband after work. I know! The ex made me go to work 8 hours and day and when I came home, she made me work another 8 hours taking care of the kids and when it was time for bed, she'd make me work another 8 hours. I was a slave 24/7! :D
Was that a short stint? Did your kids not later recognize your participation in their lives? Do they respect you more for your 'investment'?
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It may sound like utopia to be together 24/7, but as far as my experience goes it is not. Even within a relationship some private time is needed.
There are many options for "private time" other than spending the night drinking with a group of men :rolleyes2: Boils down to this: if you want to act single, stay single, and only marry people who have reached a certain level of maturity.
P.S. I am heading off for a night on the town. Will drink a beer or two with a beautiful woman. And yes, it will just be my wife and I 8)
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P.S. I am heading off for a night on the town. Will drink a beer or two with a beautiful woman. And yes, it will just be my wife and I 8)
Enjoy Misha! Tip the babysitter well.
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If women expect their man to be the main provider of the family, she should be happy to accept the role of taking care of the kids and house. Some women think it's hard work. Others find it a joy and blessing to stay home not having to work a real job and to be able to take care of their kids and watch them grow not losing a precious moment without them.
You women who think it's work and that you should be honored by your husband should put on your best lingerie, high heals and honor your man next time he comes home from work. If you want a little, you've got to give a little. Life and marriage would be a lot easier if everyone accepted their roles and appreciate the role the other spouse plays without keeping score and thinking they're getting the short end of the stick.
Somebody is dreaming :cheesygrin:
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Unfortunately women who tend to repeat how hard it is to take care of kids tend to pass the kids off to the husband after work. I know!
BillyB-
I know people are different and those differences doesn't automatically determine right from wrong so please don't take what I'm about to say as being critical of you. The quoted statement above is just another difference you and I have.
I realize that the closest to having my own child experience right now had been times I immersed myself with my little nieces and nephews and my friends' little ones when they come over for visits. I just adore children. I love playing with them and I love taking care of them. I'll give that I'm still yet to live the day when I can spend these times with one that is/are my own...for my wife and I right now, that day is not too far away from us.
So the gist of my post is I know no matter how tired I will be coming home from a hard day's work, there'll be nothing I would like to do more than drown myself into the company of my child/children. I can't imagine enjoying doing anything else than to devote that time to my family. Just the vision of my own children waiting for me to come home is so powerful just to even think about right now.
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If our daughters asked for permission, we would not allow them to get drunk all weekend with men that we haven't met because it's stupid and reckless. Why should we allow our spouses?
It is not about asking for permission and giving the permission. It is about having a conversation and elementary respect to each other.
If a husband doesn't ask his wife where she goes, with whom, how he can find her or her friends if something happens it means he doesn't care ... If he asks and the wife's answer is "it doesn't matter" it means she doesn't care... If spouses don't know each others friends and don't care to introduce their friends they just don't care about each other. If a wife goes away for weekend to have night parties with her friends and her husband knows nothing about her friends it means she has no respect for her husband, the same applies to the husband... and there is not any partnership and love in such "families".
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I met GQBlues. He is not how you described.......You are off base here.
How do you really know Gator?
I guess this is as good as any place to bring up one of my pet peeves.
Several times on this forum I have read the "howlings" of other members claiming that some of our poster's were "off base" with their assumptions, because they had "met" the member in question and he was "OK" in their book.
Because someone on this forum may have met somebody else on this forum in an airport in Moscow for a few hours or sat at a cafe in Siberia with them, doesn't mean jack in my book!
Hell, I lived next to a guy in Virginia Beach for several years who invited my wife, daughter and I over to their house to eat, swim in their pool, attend family functions, etc.
I thought I knew this guy inside and out.
Wrong!!!
Years later he leaves his wife and 3 children for a much younger coworker and later it slipped out through a conversation with his older son that this guy was a sexual freak (deviant) and his wife didn't want to satisfy his "sickness" any more.
No criticism directed at you or anybody else Gator, BUT......I reserve the right to make my own judgements about member's, based on what they post here on RWD.
GOB
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Wow! Lot's of emotion on that post GOB. Actually in as much as I appreciated Gator saying what he did, the absence of my open recognition of it was for no other reason than I didn't feel he needed to involve himself with my plight. But the class act that I've always known him to be, it was well received in me without saying.
I've known Gator as long as he's known me (what a coincidence, huh) and likely I'm much the same as he in the sense I feel I'm a pretty good judge of character when it comes to people I meet ~ so the feeling was mutual. Some of us just have the knack, believe it or not... ;)
As for this part of your post:
I reserve the right to make my own judgements about member's, based on what they post here on RWD.
Considering your latest little vacation recently, there's more than one irony in it. :evil:
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The quoted statement above is just another difference you and I have.
Why do you say that? I love playing with kids. Nieces, nephews, my kids, and small cousins all like playing with Silly Billy. I don't think playing with kids is work but there are women that will tell their man after he comes home to change the diapers, give them a bath and feed them all while saying she's done her part for the day. You should tell the women in this thread who think it's work what you just told me.
Before thinking about visiting a RW when communicating with her, I ask her what her goals are in life and what role does a man and woman play in a marriage. If I don't like her answer...Next! If I like her answer, she'll like mine when I tell her because it'll be the same.
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BillyB-
I know people are different and those differences doesn't automatically determine right from wrong so please don't take what I'm about to say as being critical of you. The quoted statement above is just another difference you and I have.
I realize that the closest to having my own child experience right now had been times I immersed myself with my little nieces and nephews and my friends' little ones when they come over for visits. I just adore children. I love playing with them and I love taking care of them. I'll give that I'm still yet to live the day when I can spend these times with one that is/are my own...for my wife and I right now, that day is not too far away from us.
So the gist of my post is I know no matter how tired I will be coming home from a hard day's work, there'll be nothing I would like to do more than drown myself into the company of my child/children. I can't imagine enjoying doing anything else than to devote that time to my family. Just the vision of my own children waiting for me to come home is so powerful just to even think about right now.
It remember me a joke about one foreigner who come to Quebec for the first time during winter:
First year: Oh, this is so beautiful, snow everywhere ! this is magic. We even can see deers, look, this is so cute, they are looking for food.
After 3 years: Fu**ing white sh*t , it is falling all time, now my car is rusted and I have not even the time to remove it that new one is there.
One day I will take my .12 and get this f*** deer who eat my trees !
GQblues: you have ideal vision of children. This is true they will give among the biggest reward in life, but between the first 2 years where they need constant attention, sleepless nights, when they transform the smallest of your forgetting in a terrible mess, there are days that you will be very happy to have baby sitter....In all cases you need to take pause from them, both to be alone and to be only with your wife.
If not, you forget to be a couple and you become only parents.
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This will certainly get you far.. remember to print this and put it next to the condom in your wallet next time you date.. pull both out at the same time and see what happens. If she's still turned on she's a keeper.
BC, I know how to play the game. If I want to use the condom and get laid, I tell the ladies what they want to hear. If I want to find a life partner, I tell her what she needs to hear. What kind of guy do you think I am?
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What kind of guy do you think I am?
Not my type ;D
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Enjoy Misha!
Had a great time. Very romantic time. My wife was pleased as punch that I asked her out on a date after her hard week at work ;D
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Considering your latest little vacation recently,.....
:noidea:
GOB
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:noidea:
Yeah, well now you see GOB..
I already saw Kuna make a post, and if he in fact just got back from his vacation and my man Sculpto hasn't; then one is left to assume he made a bigger boo-boo now, didn't he?
docetae-
I agree 100%.
I like your snowy heaven metaphor as I can relate. My wife's fascination with Hawaii is typical of people who's only been there 2-3 times. I've spent soooo much time there I literally get stir crazy two hours after arrival. Serious cabin fever for me. To keep my sanity, I'd rent a souped-up moped from the bruddahs a few days and ride the pup around the red zone on the island(s). I hope the missus will tire of going there soon enough.
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How do you really know Gator?
I guess this is as good as any place to bring up one of my pet peeves.
Several times on this forum I have read the "howlings" of other members claiming that some of our poster's were "off base" with their assumptions, because they had "met" the member in question and he was "OK" in their book.
Because someone on this forum may have met somebody else on this forum in an airport in Moscow for a few hours or sat at a cafe in Siberia with them, doesn't mean jack in my book!
I assert that what I learned from one meeting with GQ and 6 years of RW forum interchange with him gives me a better assessment of GQ than whatever SMS60 used to formulate his attack of GQ's persona.
Hell, I lived next to a guy in Virginia Beach for several years who invited my wife, daughter and I over to their house to eat, swim in their pool, attend family functions, etc.
I thought I knew this guy inside and out.
Wrong!!!
Years later he leaves his wife and 3 children for a much younger coworker and later it slipped out through a conversation with his older son that this guy was a sexual freak (deviant) and his wife didn't want to satisfy his "sickness" any more.
It is possible that GQ is like your neighbor. :devilish: Because I have no information about GQ's sexual practices nor do I know what you consider deviant sex, I can not render an opinion.
Nevertheless, I feel that I know enough about GQ to state that he is not as SMS described him: “jelly fish, no backbone, eventually their mate loses respect for them.” I found him confident, understanding and respectful with regard to women. Besides, the fact that he has been married for 5 years says something about whether she respects him.
No criticism directed at you or anybody else Gator, BUT......I reserve the right to make my own judgements about member's, based on what they post here on RWD.
And you should, as should all RWD readers.
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hiii98 wife and her stupid boyfriend????
http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-aug1909-amberalert.f8dcad0d.html
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edited
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I assert that what I learned from one meeting with GQ and 6 years of RW forum interchange with him gives me a better assessment of GQ than whatever SMS60 used to formulate his attack of GQ's persona.
It is possible that GQ is like your neighbor. :devilish: Because I have no information about GQ's sexual practices nor do I know what you consider deviant sex, I can not render an opinion.
Nevertheless, I feel that I know enough about GQ to state that he is not as SMS described him: “jelly fish, no backbone, eventually their mate loses respect for them.” I found him confident, understanding and respectful with regard to women. Besides, the fact that he has been married for 5 years says something about whether she respects him.
And you should, as should all RWD readers.
Hey Sarge
I dont considerate it an attack on GQ's character. I described the men who think like GQ. I used the word "they". But take it as you wish. I will state my opinion just as you do.
I really dont care who you know or not.
There are many misguided men in this journey. Its no different than the relationships you see here at home. I saw the thread going in the direction of "if you disagree with your wife behaving in a certain way you were labeled a control freak". This is far from the truth. There is nothing wrong with wanting mutual respect from your mate. In fact its healthy and normal and required for a stable marriage.
I think I understand relationships from my experiences in life. So I will give an opinion on the way I see things. Actually they are quite simple. The main ingrediant is respect. So, hence my post about the dynamics in this thread about the lack of respect.
Of course, my opinion will be dismissed since I'm not in the "club". I expect that. You might think I'm harsh but I thought this forum was not "sugar coated" said from some "club members". Anyways solutions to serious problems are not always easy. They sometimes sting.
I will speak out when I think someone is giving information which I consider wrong. If you consider it an attack more power to you. I dont. I think it is constructive criticism.
After I made the post about a jelly fish I was immediatly labeled a "control freak" and or "abuser". I did not see you say anything about the attack on my character. Do we have a double standard? By the way, I would not want you to take up for me. I will fend for myself. Its never good idea to defend someone you dont know like the back of your hand.
Here is my point on the jelly fish post you have an issue with. I will explain my thoughts this way. Lets reverse th OP's situation more than 180 degrees.
Hopefully Gator you will answer this in a honest way. I think I know your character.
If your wife approached you and said "Gator I will be secure with the idea of you going for a weekend with 4 women exploring the night life". Your first reaction would not be how good this could be for you. but what is up with your wife? What would you think?
If it was me? I would step back and wonder? I would look at her in a diffirent way. I would see her as losing respect for herself. What happened to the love? Does she not love me anymore? Why would she allow this? Why would she be alright with her husband spending a weekend with 4 women? What happened to her character? No self esteem? What is she trying to justify? I would not say.... Oh how cool this is!! I have such a secure wife!!! I would have some major questions about the issue at hand.
Carry on
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I think I understand relationships from my experiences in life. So I will give an opinion on the way I see things. Actually they are quite simple. The main ingrediant is respect. So, hence my post about the dynamics in this thread about the lack of respect.
Of course, my opinion will be dismissed since I'm not in the "club". I expect that. You might think I'm harsh but I thought this forum was not "sugar coated" said from some "club members". Anyways solutions to serious problems are not always easy. They sometimes sting.
Maybe you consider me a part of that club.. no matter.
But you do bring up an interesting point in bold above..
Are you sure?
I say the main ingredient is trust..
Lets test it..
Can you respect someone you don't trust?
Lemme know and we'll go from there.
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There is never one right or wrong answer that is why many views have come up on this thread. So it is normal some men / women think nothing is wrong and some men / women think something is wrong. The OP probably has no idea how to get back to RWD and may never hear from him again. This thread will go on and on forever. But this marriage will not last. OP did clearly state she drank 24X7 in her home country and thought it would end in USA. I also think the OP made this story up and is having a good laugh. Does not take much to get this crowd going.
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I saw the thread going in the direction of "if you disagree with your wife behaving in a certain way you were labeled a control freak".
Peace and harmony (and respect) are not achieved with unilateral control. A couple needs to resolve their conflicts productively in a win-win manner.
If my wife did what the OP’s wife did (or seem to do), I would become alarmed and have a very serious discussion with her. We would try to resolve the conflict. If unable to do that, our relationship would be in trouble.
If your wife approached you and said "Gator I will be secure with the idea of you going for a weekend with 4 women exploring the night life"....What would you think?
Something unhealthy is happening. Oddly, this has already happened to me. Many years ago my ex-wife suggested that I get a girlfriend. Love was gone; she already had a boyfriend. A few years later we divorced in an amicable manner. There is a lot more to this story: her clinical depression, years of therapy, attempt at open marriage, children, etc.
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If my wife did what the OP’s wife did (or seem to do), I would become alarmed and have a very serious discussion with her. We would try to resolve the conflict. If unable to do that, our relationship would be in trouble.
Something unhealthy is happening. Oddly, this has already happened to me. Many years ago my ex-wife suggested that I get a girlfriend. Love was gone; she already had a boyfriend. A few years later we divorced in an amicable manner. There is a lot more to this story: her clinical depression, years of therapy, attempt at open marriage, children, etc.
You have not learned pal, if your wife does this you should think about the things she has done that you don't know anything about, if she does this she probably has a boyfriend already just like your ex-wife, and its because of what you wrote below, she thinks nothing of you, she does not respect you, when she makes love to you she probably is closing her eyes and is thinking about her boyfriends she parties with,...
“jelly fish, no backbone, eventually their mate loses respect for them.”
Yep, that is probably what happened to your ex-wife.
A few years later we divorced in an amicable manner.
wow, I wonder why did you wait a few years
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You really are a swine, Muddy. I hope your real life personality is not as disgusting as the one you present here. If they are the same, I predict with 100 per cent certainty that no marriage you have with a FSU woman will succeed. Or, for that matter, an AW.
Have you ever considered that Gator had children to think of? Perhaps he didn't want them to grow up in a broken home or, worse yet, in the sole custody of a depressed woman who would not nurture their spiritual and social growth during the turbulent years of adolescence. You didn't walk in his shoes, and have no idea what it takes.
Someone who takes a painful period in a person's life and so cavalierly mocks it for . . . amusement? to win an "online" argument? to make themselves feel better? is not much of a man and the last person who should be referencing jellyfish.
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GQ, nope, I haven't fathered any kids yet, but for years I helped raise my sister's kids spending more time with them than many parents spend with their kids.
Anyways, it's not something that one needs to do to imagine what its like. We've all lived in families. Raising kids is a normal part of life. I've known families with 8 to 13 kids. Now that's rough. Raising 1 kid? Nothing to stress about.
Spoken like a true theoretic.
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Muddy,
When life handed me that lemon, I did my best to make lemonade.
In contrast, you seem very bitter. I can only guess that when your life stepped into some crap, you made a $hit sandwich and took a big bite from it. That brown stuff must be bitter, huh?
BTW, I thought you were stalking Groovlstk, not me. Something must be wrong with your tracking software.
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:ROFL: :ROFL:
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When my husband first came here, I took him on a trip through the Western provinces and down into several US states, where I have family. He had an opportunity to meet a lot of people, as I had family or acquaintances in most of the places we visited. One of the things he commented on was that Canada and the U.S. are "throw away" societies. He meant relationships. The ease with which couples, particularly those with children, divorced and found new partners was shocking to him. This was rare in the FSU, unless one party was drinking. It has become more common, as has adultery, but it certainly is still not the norm.
The FSU with the exception of the Muslim countries have some of the highest divorce rates in the World and huge abortion rates. Maybe you've been introducing your husband to too many broken families for him to come to that conclusion. Many RW once they have children and not married or divorced are unwanted by many RM and don't have much chance to get married unless they got beauty or money.
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You completely misunderstood what I was saying.
I introduced my husband to the normal variations of individuals.
In Ukraine, up until about 10 years ago, divorce only occurred if a man was drinking. Even then, a woman would fight to get her husband to stop drinking, and divorce was the last resort. Single (never married) mothers were rare. It was considered shameful to have a child out of wedlock. I think this is because Ukrainians are more tied to rural roots than Russians. To most Ukrainians, to divorce if your spouse was not a drunkard or a cheater was virtually unheard of. That was the case among my husband's circles when he lived in St. Petersburg as well.
To suggest, as some here did, that the OP throw his wife out when a) he told her to go out; and b) he is looking for dirt is indicative of that "throwaway" mentality.
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In Ukraine, up until about 10 years ago, divorce only occurred if a man was drinking.
Broethius, you realize your speaking for every woman and man in Ukraine 10 years ago?
Would a woman only divorce her husband if he was drinking? What about if he beat up the family, mental abuse, lazy and don't work and committing adultery? Is drunkenness to blame for all that? Maybe the husband is just a deadbeat and being drunk, lazy and abusive is just part of his character?
Why would divorce only occur when only he is drinking? Why is women the only ones divorcing? Do men divorce their wife if she does something bad or neglects the family and is useless or does he continue to feed her?
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That was the case among my husband's circles when he lived in St. Petersburg as well.
When did he live in St. Petersburg? 10 years ago? How old was his circle of friends? The Russian divorce rate is now close to 75% if memory serves me right and single unwed mothers are not rare. As for divorce, there are many men and women who will get divorced even if they have children. Had a friend last week writing me last week from Russia telling me how she had kicked out her children's father. The youngest of her two children is only a year old.
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The underlying cause of about 90% of divorces in Ukraine was, and remains, substance abuse. Not because of one party's "unhappiness" or "unfulfillment". It is a very different mindset.
Misha, I said it was when he first arrived here and that things have changed in ten years. But, the bottom line is it is many here expressed the same attitude.
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Boethius, I will have to disagree as I have lived in Ukraine in past 5 years and most of the divorces were due to jealous husbands, financial issues, marrying to young, drinking, and cheating husbands / wives. Drinking is not the leading cause nor is husbands not wanting to take care of children. May have been 10 years ago but Ukraine is very different today than it was in 2004 (pre Orange Revolution) and especially 10 years ago. Now your social circle maybe higher level as you do perform legal work in Ukraine and maybe your focused on the rich Ukraine men who have women who are very dependent on them.
There is a very good article on divorces in Ukraine which I will try to find again. They examined more than 10,000 recent divorces and cause of it.
Here is a recent stat on divorces being about 50% of marriages. And many marriages are never legalized in Ukraine and majority of these marriages end to without being tracked. A trick of someone with money or wanting a short-term marriage that will never be recorded.
http://www.kyivpost.com/nation/40100
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The underlying cause of about 90% of divorces in Ukraine was, and remains, substance abuse. Not because of one party's "unhappiness" or "unfulfillment". It is a very different mindset.
Substance abuse usually happens because of unhappiness or lack of fulfillment in one's life. If the man is a drunk before marriage, a woman shouldn't be marrying him.
I've heard it before and RM would probably tell us that their wives drove them to drink. I've met a few laid back easy going RM in the States and their wives are controlling, grumpy, and gossip machines.
Lots of men don't go home to their wives who nag and prefer to spend their time with the boys at night.
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The underlying cause of about 90% of divorces in Ukraine was, and remains, substance abuse. Not because of one party's "unhappiness" or "unfulfillment". It is a very different mindset.
Or perhaps substance abuse was the most convenient reason as it would automatically elicit sympathy :evil:
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Broethius, you realize your speaking for every woman and man in Ukraine 10 years ago?
Would a woman only divorce her husband if he was drinking? What about if he beat up the family, mental abuse, lazy and don't work and committing adultery? Is drunkenness to blame for all that? Maybe the husband is just a deadbeat and being drunk, lazy and abusive is just part of his character?
Why would divorce only occur when only he is drinking? Why is women the only ones divorcing? Do men divorce their wife if she does something bad or neglects the family and is useless or does he continue to feed her?
BillyB, regarding Ukrainian culture, Broethius is 100% right, and you are wrong. Your "what if" just does not work in Ukrainian culture. Ukrainian and Russian women are particularly known for their inclination to tolerate any bad habits or inappropriate behavior from their husbands, only to have "trousers at home" or "father for children". Only during the last 10-15 years the attitude is somewhat changing. Plus - many divorces that you quote as statistics aren't initiated by women - they are initiated by men, and not because their wives were cheating, but because men had affairs and wanted to change the woman in the house. Or at least this is my impression. Up until my 20yo age, there were only three families in my social circle that were divorcees. Just think of it - 3 families - from hundreds of my schoolmates, another hundreds of neighbors, tens of my parents' colleagues and acquaintances, all the people i've encountered in daily life - doctors, nurses, etc etc etc. Moreover, among all those people there were total zero of women who had a child without official father, born not in marriage.
Regarding your comment about "grumpy and controlling wives" and "nice RM husbands" who have to drink because their wives make home stay intolerable - this is the very typical self-soothing of drinking men. I start wondering if you possibly also have issues with drinking. Any specialist dealing with unhealthy families - with drinking man and co-dependent wife will tell you that drunkars always pity themselves trying to solicit pity from people around. And the only way to "save" the alcoholic - is to stop pitying him. The common mistakes of wives is that they are grumpy when husband "comes home on ears" (literally translating from Russian), but next day they start pitying him.
Here is an example of a grumpy russian wife exercising her control of her nice husband:
(http://www.artvek.ru/makovskiyv/makovskiyv14.jpg)
"Не пущу" Vladimir Yegorovich Makovsky, oil on canvas, 1892.
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Ukrainian and Russian women are particularly known for their inclination to tolerate any bad habits or inappropriate behavior from their husbands, only to have "trousers at home" or "father for children". Only during the last 10-15 years the attitude is somewhat changing.
A couple years ago, Ukraine and Russia had a 65%-67% divorce rate in their country. If you look at todays statistics, they have a 40%-43% divorce rate. If todays numbers are true then you and Broethius are incorrect that marriages in the past stuck together better. The new generation of women values marriage and probably tolerates bad behavior from men better than the old fashion ladies thus the divorce rate is declining fast. Check your government's statistics. They don't lie...or do they.
I don't believe the divorce rate can drop 20%+ in 2 years. I think the Ukrainian and Russian government is putting out wrong info so that people can feel good about getting married again in their country. Their population is declining after all and that's not good for any nation.
The old 65%-67% divorce rate is more believable and it contradicts what you are saying that RW/UW tolerate bad behavior. Many RW and UW will drop you in a second if she doesn't like something about you.
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When my husband first came here, I took him on a trip through the Western provinces and down into several US states, where I have family. He had an opportunity to meet a lot of people, as I had family or acquaintances in most of the places we visited. One of the things he commented on was that Canada and the U.S. are "throw away" societies. He meant relationships. The ease with which couples, particularly those with children, divorced and found new partners was shocking to him. This was rare in the FSU, unless one party was drinking. It has become more common, as has adultery, but it certainly is still not the norm.
This is certainly true, and in the past I've seen quite a few bedraggled men arrive here complaining that the "throwaway society" mentality in the West is one of the reasons they are looking for a wife in Russia or Ukraine.
But is it really a bad thing? Or just the lesser of two evils? I grew up in a big, very conservative Roman Catholic family, and 30 years ago divorce was a huge stigma and many couples stayed together long after any benefits for themselves and/or children had passed. Domestic violence was tolerated as long as there were no serious injuries, and the despair of a living in a loveless marriage was attributed to God's will.
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The new generation of women values marriage and probably tolerates bad behavior from men better than the old fashion ladies thus the divorce rate is declining fast.
Billy, what always amuses me is the arrogance of foreigners who know little about the matter, yet try to prove me that I know nothing about my country. Please, feel free to continue.
1990 d(3.7/1000) m(9.3/1000)
1999 d(3.5/1000) m(6.9/1000)
2008 d(3.6/1000) m(7.0/1000)
1) where do you see a decline of divorce rate vs. marriage rate?
2) where do you see 70% divorce rate?
Source:
http://stat6.stat.lviv.ua/PXWEB2007/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=000_0311&ti=0311%2E+%CA%B3%EB%FC%EA%
B3%F1%F2%FC+%E7%E0%F0%E5%BA%F1%F2%F0%
EE%E2%E0%ED%E8%F5+%F8%EB%FE%E1%B3%E2
+%F2%E0+%F0%EE%E7%EB%F3%F7%E5%ED%FC&path
=../Database/POPULATION/1/03/&lang=1 (http://stat6.stat.lviv.ua/PXWEB2007
/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=000
_0311&ti=0311%2E
+%CA%B3%EB%FC%EA%
B3%F1%F2%FC+%E7%E0%F0%E5%BA%F1%F2%F0%
EE%E2%E0%ED%E8%F5+%F8%EB%FE%E1%B3%E2
+%F2%E0+%F0%EE%E7%EB%F3%F7%E5%ED%FC&path
=../Database/POPULATION/1/03/&lang=1)
it would be helpful if you quote your sources too.
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Up until my 20yo age, there were only three families in my social circle that were divorcees.
In the small Catholic town where I was growing up divorce was nonexistant. There were ZERO divorces in my social circle twenty years ago. What does this say? Well, I know that growing up women had few choices. Few of my friends' mothers worked. Even if they had left their husbands, there was not really anywhere for them to go. In other words, many tolerated less than perfect marriages. Is this is a good thing? I would say that the results were mixed. Some probably were better off staying together, some should have divorced decades ago.
Let's keep in mind that in Soviet times it was quite difficult to get an apartment and there was a lot of social pressure to keep married. If a woman chose to leave her husband, where would she go? Or where would the husband go? They couldn't exactly sell their apartment and buy a new one could they :evil: In other words, the social pressures and economic forces keeping couples together in Soviet times would have been similar to those keeping husbands and wives together in my small rural village.
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In the small Catholic town where I was growing up divorce was nonexistant. There were ZERO divorces in my social circle twenty years ago. What does this say? Well, I know that growing up women had few choices. Few of my friends' mothers worked. Even if they had left their husbands, there was not really anywhere for them to go. In other words, many tolerated less than perfect marriages. Is this is a good thing? I would say that the results were mixed. Some probably were better off staying together, some should have divorced decades ago.
Let's keep in mind that in Soviet times it was quite difficult to get an apartment and there was a lot of social pressure to keep married. If a woman chose to leave her husband, where would she go? Or where would the husband go? They couldn't exactly sell their apartment and buy a new one could they :evil: In other words, the social pressures and economic forces keeping couples together in Soviet times would have been similar to those keeping husbands and wives together in my small rural village.
is 300'000 a small town? Would it help if I say that part of our family lives in Kyiv, and same situation with divorces and marriages can be observed in their social circle as well?
I completely agree with your remark about "nowhere to go to" reason. Though I do not agree with the "social pressure" argument. If a family lives in crumpled apartment, three generations together - will parents look favorably on the idea of bringing a young husband or wife into the house, and invite a fourth generation in? :rolleyes2:
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is 300'000 a small town? Would it help if I say that part of our family lives in Kyiv, and same situation with divorces and marriages can be observed in their social circle as well?
And? Your point being? Anecdotal evidence from 20 years ago is anecdotal evidence. If I would have visited thousands of small towns across Canada, I would have observed the same phenomenon.
I completely agree with your remark about "nowhere to go to" reason. Though I do not agree with the "social pressure" argument. If a family lives in crumpled apartment, three generations together - will parents look favorably on the idea of bringing a young husband or wife into the house, and invite a fourth generation in? :rolleyes2:
Exactly. And, there are many cases where wives in Russia will tolerate much more than they want because of problems with housing. Let's say the couple lives in an apartment that belongs to the husband's parents. If she divorces him, what does she get? Not much. Sure, she might be able to sue, but if he has more money and better connections, her odds would be far from good :evil:
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Billy, what always amuses me is the arrogance of foreigners who know little about the matter, yet try to prove me that I know nothing about my country. Please, feel free to continue.
It's more than just that mies.. Here a bunch of primarily divorced guys (myself included) trying to define what causes FSU divorces. Is kind of silly IMHO.
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It's more than just that mies.. Here a bunch of primarily divorced guys (myself included) trying to define what causes FSU divorces. Is kind of silly IMHO.
Feel free then to read this article: http://www.svobodanews.ru/content/transcript/1741154.html
An excerpt:
Ирина Лагунина: Статистика разводов в России растет. В среднем на 10 браков приходится в последнее время от 8 до 6 разводов. В списке основных причин - алкоголизм или наркомания (51%), отсутствие жилища (41%) и средств к существованию (29%), вмешательство в дела семьи тещи и зятя (18%), невозможность иметь детей (10%). Любопытно, что неверность в списке причин разводов в России практически не фигурирует, то есть это как бы не повод для развода. Впрочем, статистика разводов в России упоминается часто, но что такое развод вблизи, крупным планом, об этом говорится реже. Между тем, это не лишено интереса - развод по-русски, тем более что в России отношение к браку и, соответственно, к разводу, пока остается в большой степени патриархальным. Над темой работала Татьяна Вольтская.
Some highlights:
- In recent years in Russia, for every 10 marriages, there were 6 to 8 divorces. These statistics, of course, would not include those who lived together and then separated with getting divorced (with or without children)
- The main causes listed for divorce: alcohol/drug abuse (51%); lack of housing (41%); not enough to survive (aka lack of money) (29%); interference of mother or father-in-law (18%) and inability to have children (10%).
Sure, infidelity and incompatibility don't really factor in, but this might be an indicator of the greater financial stresses that most Russian couples have to endure.
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Let's say the couple lives in an apartment that belongs to the husband's parents. If she divorces him, what does she get? Not much. Sure, she might be able to sue, but if he has more money and better connections, her odds would be far from good :evil:
not exactly. There exist a social/state institute of "прописка". If the person has it in a specific dwelling (even if the dwelling belongs to parents) this individual can't be just "thrown away" at the streets. For example, my parent's apartment belongs to my parents, however while i was on the documents as "assigned" to this apartment - they could not sell the apartment without my approval. Also, many families were getting "apartment upgrade" after they had new people joining the household. For example - some families would take their remote lonely relatives from villages and "assign" them to the apartment, then if the amount of sq meters per household member was less than standard - the family qualified for upgrade. Same idea with the quantity of children. If there were 2-3 children in the family - family/parents were getting bigger apartment, and thus - their children had a right (of ownership) over the portion of this apartment. Hence - after divorce women with kids could sue with the ex's parents and ex, and get their portion of the apartment. Then they were "exchanging the apartment" - one 3 bedroom apartment for 2 apartments 1-bedroom each.
I am not a lawyer, and law is my weakest side, so I will not be able to quote any civil code articles. But if you are interested - i'm sure you can find all the documents/laws/codes online.
And? Your point being? Anecdotal evidence from 20 years ago is anecdotal evidence. If I would have visited thousands of small towns across Canada, I would have observed the same phenomenon.
my point is not an anecdotal evidence. My town isn't really small, Kyiv (which is the second example i used) - is the capital of Ukraine and one of 5 biggest cities in the country.
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Billy, what always amuses me is the arrogance of foreigners who know little about the matter, yet try to prove me that I know nothing about my country. Please, feel free to continue.
1990 d(3.7/1000) m(9.3/1000)
1999 d(3.5/1000) m(6.9/1000)
2008 d(3.6/1000) m(7.0/1000)
1) where do you see a decline of divorce rate vs. marriage rate?
2) where do you see 70% divorce rate?
it would be helpful if you quote your sources too.
Mies, the numbers are only as accurate as what the government wants to provide. They can alter the numbers if they want to better reflect on their country. I can't read your chart but here's a link to some numbers from 2005. At the time Russia had around 60% divorce rate. The numbers used in this study weren't guessed, they were obtained from countries who submitted their "facts" to the United Nations. This forum has gone over divorce numbers many times with many links available.
http://encarta.msn.com/media_701500518/marriage_and_divorce_rates.html
It's more than just that mies.. Here a bunch of primarily divorced guys (myself included) trying to define what causes FSU divorces. Is kind of silly IMHO.
Don't be bias. What about the divorced women going over what causes divorces? You don't think what I said causes FSU divorces is valid or do you too believe alcohol is solely to blame? What does being divorce have to do with quoting sources and what we hear from RM? Do you prefer to hear about divorce from guys who's never been married or married guys who never been divorced?
I've seen quite a few bedraggled men arrive here complaining that the "throwaway society" mentality in the West is one of the reasons they are looking for a wife in Russia or Ukraine.
They've read too much agency hype and didn't do their homework. If staying married is their #1 goal, they need to focus on a Muslim woman or look in India which has divorce rates in the single digit.
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Is there an intrinsic difference in the causes for divorce in the FSU and the West? I don't know; I am just asking.
- The main causes listed for divorce: alcohol/drug abuse (51%); lack of housing (41%); not enough to survive (aka lack of money) (29%); interference of mother or father-in-law (18%) and inability to have children (10%).
Sure, infidelity and incompatibility don't really factor in, but this might be an indicator of the greater financial stresses that most Russian couples have to endure.
In America the leading cause is "irreconcilable differences." This is a "no-fault term" substituted for almost every cause to avoid lengthy court battles. Divorce attorneys have reported causes as:
In most general terms, the causes of divorce (and arguably the cause of any relationship dissolution) involve a breakdown or lack of communication, compromise, and/or commitment. Family legal experts cite the following factors as major causes of divorce: poor communication, financial problems, lack of commitment, dramatic changes in priorities, and infidelity. Causes of divorce may also include physical, mental or emotional abuse, substance abuse, lack of conflict resolution skills, unmet needs, failed expectations, and significant discrepancies in parenting.
Source: http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/divorce/family-law/children/index.html
AW frequently explained their divorce as, "We just grew apart". In my years of dating RW, not one RW ever explained her divorce in terms such as "We just grew apart."[/list]
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Mies, the numbers are only as accurate as what the government wants to provide.
sure, the "method of scientific poke" or as we say in Russian метод научного тыка combined with iterated urban tales and forum gossips - give much more accurate numbers than official state statistics (which - meaning official state statistics, - by the way, cannot be different from what is submitted by the state to UN).
Billy, did you at least try to look on what link are you giving me???
Ukraine marriage rate N/A divorce rate 3.90
How do you presume the divorce rate in % vs. marriage rate from this 2005 data? How do you infer a trendline? I am nearly speechless.
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Billy, did you at least try to look on what link are you giving me???
Ukraine marriage rate N/A divorce rate 3.90
How do you presume the divorce rate from this 2005 data? How do you infer a trendline? I am nearly speechless.
I didn't supply the numbers for Ukraine on that UN study and the study does not give % of divorce unlike other studies. That's one of many studies that can be found on the internet.
For the second time I'll say there are links that have been supplied numerous times in the past on this forum that showed FSU countries, except Muslim ones, that are or that are near top on the charts for divorce based off the number those countries provided. 67% for Russia and 65% for Ukraine was the highest % I've seen for those 2 countries at one time. The last few years the divorce rate for Ukraine and Russia took a nose dive into the low 40's. That can be googled.
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In my years of dating RW, not one RW ever explained her divorce in terms such as "We just grew apart."[/list]
When the economy improves significantly in Russia and women have the same economic opportunities as men, you will see many more Russian women getting divorced and saying that they "just grew apart" IMHO. Then again, when that happens, you won't have many RW dating WM :evil:
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I didn't supply the numbers for Ukraine on that UN study and the study does not give % of divorce unlike other studies. That's one of many studies that can be found on the internet.
For the second time I'll say there are links that have been supplied numerous times in the past on this forum that showed FSU countries, except Muslim ones, that are or that are near top on the charts for divorce based off the number those countries provided. 67% for Russia and 65% for Ukraine was the highest % I've seen for those 2 countries at one time. The last few years the divorce rate for Ukraine and Russia took a nose dive into the low 40's. That can be googled.
give me one reason to go through the "previously supplied numerous forum posts" while I can check official statistics much faster, and this data will be much more reliable? 65% for which year? What is 65%?
Let's say: for the year 2005
marriages: 7.1/1000 of population
divorces: 3.9/1000 of population
3.9/7.1*100= 54.9%
for 1999 and 2008 - the rate is about 50%.
for 1990: 3.7/9.3*100=39.8%
still no sign of 65% :cheesygrin:
speaking of source reliability - I bumped today at the article which says that an infant was born in Russia who can talk minutes after delivery, and his first word was "papa"- right after infant opened eyes :ROFL:
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Since statistics have absolutely no bearing on individuals, why even discuss it?
All I know is that
1. We got married
2. We may stay together until death do us part or we may part before that time.
As it regards WM/FSUW marriages, there may be different factors that either keep the marriage going i.e. WM too old to shop around so wants to keep her or that contribute to divorce i.e. just did not know each other well enough.
Italy makes a good example that there can be different factors involved in each country, even within the country:
Marital break-ups and separations were commoner in the more industrialised and richer north against the poorer south.
There were 6.2 separations and four divorces for every 1,000 marriages in the north in 2005, against 4.2 separations and 1.8 divorces in the south.
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/Italys-Divorce-Rate-Jumps-74-Percent-in-10-Years-22404-1/
One could say that maybe it is because of economics, poor tend to stick together.. or maybe because couples down here tend to date for very long periods of time.. basically waiting until they have a house to live in? Who knows..
What's this thread all about anyway? :wallbash:
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still no sign of 65% :cheesygrin:
Do you make your husband do all the work too? The things us men do have to do for women. ::) Here are a few links. Read about the abortion study in the last link. Contemplate the numbers next time you think about "throw away" society.
http://www.divorce.com/article/divorce-statistics
http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/international-divorce-rates.html
http://nodivorce.us/fvi.php
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Do you make your husband do all the work too? The things us men do have to do for women. ::) Here are a few links. Read about the abortion study in the last link. Contemplate the numbers next time you think about "throw away" society.
http://www.divorce.com/article/divorce-statistics
http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/international-divorce-rates.html
http://nodivorce.us/fvi.php
1995/1996 data.. wonder how relevant today.
Some more sources..
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_abo_percap-health-abortions-per-capita
Don't forget abortion data talks about 'legal abortions'... wonder why.. comparing legal abortions in the US and RU may well be comparing apples and oranges, who knows. Where does a US girl in trouble go?
I always thought it might be because abortion costs less in RU than birth control.
Why is Canada's abortion rate half that of US?
Fun part about statistics and the internet is you will always be able to find the data you want to see..
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What's this thread all about anyway? :wallbash:
Another example why people should not marry unless they want to have kids. :evil:
Oooops! The OP and his wife have a 1-yo baby.
Oooops Again! Psychiatrists assert that humans are hardwired to live as couples.
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1995/1996 data.. wonder how relevant today.
Some more sources..
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate
Didn't someone just say "what's this thread all about anyway?"
That link isn't a good indication of how many divorces are happening per marriages. I could easily say Americans value marriage and love each other enough to enter marriage more than other nationalities because we're doing it more often.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_mar_rat-people-marriage-rate
% of divorces/marriage is a better indicator of what's happening. With more marriages happening in America, there is an increase for divorce. Some people aren't marriage material such as those who want the single life, the mentally retarded, the bad, and the stupid. Life is tough but it's tougher if you're stupid. Same within marriage.
The links I provided were only to show Mies some numbers in the 60's%. I didn't care to link divorce statistics from every year or the current year. I know current divorce rate in Ukraine and Russia is 40% and 43%. I don't believe it dropped 20% in 2 years but it is what it is. The agencies can jump on this new fact and sell the idea FSU women are more likely to stay with you thick and thin. I agree, one must take a look at each person as an individual.
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Do you make your husband do all the work too? The things us men do have to do for women. ::) Here are a few links. Read about the abortion study in the last link. Contemplate the numbers next time you think about "throw away" society.
http://www.divorce.com/article/divorce-statistics
http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/international-divorce-rates.html
http://nodivorce.us/fvi.php
Billy, you are losing me with your argument :rolleyes2:
What do you have to do with abortions among russian women? Did you get russian woman impregnated and made her go through abortion? Did you ever forbade your woman to do an abortion and took complete responsibility for your child since then? Have you gone through vasectomy? Do you have any statistics for this procedure in RUssia and USA respectively?
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ratio div mar
1990 39.78 3.7 9.3
1991 41.05 3.9 9.5
1992 56.58 4.3 7.6
1993 51.22 4.2 8.2
1994 51.95 4 7.7
1995 45.24 3.8 8.4
1996 63.33 3.8 6
1997 54.41 3.7 6.8
1998 58.06 3.6 6.2
1999 50.72 3.5 6.9
2000 71.43 4 5.6
2001 57.81 3.7 6.4
2002 57.58 3.8 6.6
2003 47.44 3.7 7.8
2004 61.02 3.6 5.9
2005 54.93 3.9 7.1
2006 50.00 3.8 7.6
2007 42.22 3.8 9
2008 51.43 3.6 7
average: 52.96 3.81 7.35
Here you have your 60 and 70% Billy :-)
If you look at the table - there were three years in Ukraine in a 19-year period, when ratio of divorces to marriages was over 60% - 1996, 2000, 2004.
When you look closer on these years - the number of divorces was about the average, and not outstanding in each of these three instances. However, the number of marriages in each of these three periods was low - much lower than average. We can safely assume, that all those people who got married in each of these three years did not divorce in the same year (or at least not all of them). Therefore, the divorces that happened in each of these years are withing norm. You cannot thus say that there are more divorces in these years. You can say that in these three years there were less marriages.
The 19-year weighted average of divorce/marriage ratio is 52.96% - not 60s or 70s % as you claim it to be.
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Interesting stuff Mies.
According to your statistical table, there has been a "spike" in divorce rates every 4 years. :o
Starting in 92' and continuing through 96', 2000 and 2004.
Surprisingly in 2008...no spike in divorces? :-\
GOB
PS.....Maybe all of this has something to do with presidential elections here in the GoodOl' USA? :evil:
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Interesting stuff Mies.
According to your statistical table, there has been a "spike" in divorce rates every 4 years. :o
Starting in 92' and continuing through 96', 2000 and 2004.
Surprisingly in 2008...no spike in divorces? :-\
GOB
PS.....Maybe all of this has something to do with presidential elections here in the GoodOl' USA? :evil:
as i said - there is no spike in divorces. there is fall in marriages. I am sure it can easily be connected (with some minimal lag) to financial situation in the world. What were the years of Russian (and consequently Ukrainian) financial markets collapses?
and in 2004 - Orange revolution, big uncertainty about the future of the country. It is indeed interesting that in 2008 number of marriages have not decreased, however - let's see the data for 2009 when it'll be available. Since the crisis in Ukraine started in the end of the Fall'08, and all marriages that were planned for the end of the year - were already scheduled, and likely were not canceled. Maybe in 2009 data we'll see a decline of marriages again.
Presidential elections, especially in such important country as USA - always have big impact on the economic and political, as well as social situation in the world.
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ratio div mar
1990 39.78 3.7 9.3
1991 41.05 3.9 9.5
1992 56.58 4.3 7.6
1993 51.22 4.2 8.2
1994 51.95 4 7.7
1995 45.24 3.8 8.4
1996 63.33 3.8 6
1997 54.41 3.7 6.8
1998 58.06 3.6 6.2
1999 50.72 3.5 6.9
2000 71.43 4 5.6
2001 57.81 3.7 6.4
2002 57.58 3.8 6.6
2003 47.44 3.7 7.8
2004 61.02 3.6 5.9
2005 54.93 3.9 7.1
2006 50.00 3.8 7.6
2007 42.22 3.8 9
2008 51.43 3.6 7
average: 52.96 3.81 7.35
Here you have your 60 and 70% Billy :-)
If you look at the table - there were three years in Ukraine in a 19-year period, when ratio of divorces to marriages was over 60% - 1996, 2000, 2004.
When you look closer on these years - the number of divorces was about the average, and not outstanding in each of these three instances. However, the number of marriages in each of these three periods was low - much lower than average. We can safely assume, that all those people who got married in each of these three years did not divorce in the same year (or at least not all of them). Therefore, the divorces that happened in each of these years are withing norm. You cannot thus say that there are more divorces in these years. You can say that in these three years there were less marriages.
The 19-year weighted average of divorce/marriage ratio is 52.96% - not 60s or 70s % as you claim it to be.
How do you know your numbers are accurate?
The goverment agencies are so corrupt and do such a bad job in almost everything, your numbers are probably wrong and off by 10-15%
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How do you know your numbers are accurate?
The goverment agencies are so corrupt and do such a bad job in almost everything, your numbers are probably wrong and off by 10-15%
and here the truth comes...
you fooled us all Muddy :applaud: you always act like a paranoid KGB agent, and now finally you have revealed that you are anarchist. Well done :ROFL:
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How do you know your numbers are accurate?
The goverment agencies are so corrupt and do such a bad job in almost everything, your numbers are probably wrong and off by 10-15%
I don't know whether to laugh or cry..
Guess I'll just go have a beer instead. ::)
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:)
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as i said - there is no spike in divorces. there is fall in marriages.
I stand corrected Mies.
I see your train of thought here and I understand what you are saying (I think :-\).
GOB
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I read nothing but the title and I think she probably is.
Mark
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Oh My God! I can't belive that husband would publish private conversation of his wife on public forum! How low can one fall!
It seems to be just a friendly chat, probably she is bored to death with her husband and just trying to entertain herself by chartting with Russian friend.
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Your Question
is my russian wife cheating on me?
I don't speak Russian and she just left for the weekend to visit her russian guy friends. I found this message on my computer from her to them. Long story short i want to be able to trust her and I hope someone can translate this letter and let me know what she is saying and if i'm overreacting.
Call a lawyer, get advice, assume the worst. There is no way a good girl would leave her
husband and baby overnight to go partying with male friends that are not related by
blood.
My Russian is mediocre (or worse). I saw something weird about someone named Sam.